Did Tesla already beat GM on BEV's??? - Chevy Bolt EV Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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Did Tesla already beat GM on BEV's???

Another point of view... not shared by me.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-race-to-tesla
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:42 PM
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Interesting concept. But I'm driving my Bolt, not waiting on a reservation for an unseen Tesla. So in my universe, seems like Bolt wins. Let's see in 2 or 3 years who's making what and for how much $$ and then ask the question again. Competition can only help move things along...

2012 Volt
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:53 PM
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GM was very smart with the design of the bolt. they created a car that's not in competition with the tesla. tesla3 is a sports sedan, bolt is CUV ... they can live in harmony together, 2 completely different markets.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by V7i7c View Post
Another point of view... not shared by me.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-race-to-tesla
Whoever wrote the Forbes opinion piece has guzzled the Tesla Kool-Aid and is drunk on Elon Musk. There is a transition to electric vehicles underway, but nowhere near as fast, or as soon as they paint. The idea that Tesla has wisely invested in the future while all the other companies are firmly stuck in the past is just Teslaratti blah, blah, blah.

If the Chevy Bolt proves one thing, it is that Gm can still react rapidly to market trends and get desirable product to market as fast, if not faster than anybody else. Gas, diesel, electric motor, or whatever. Where is the Tesla product? Oh, that's right, it's struggling to be on time. Chevy is here now, Tesla is still working on the problem. How is GM being left behind??

Oh the Giga factory... that's right. Since Tesla has heavily invested in a technology that seems high tech now, today we are supposed to be in awe of the wisdom and forward thinking. Who says that Li-Ion batteries are the final solution? What if GM holds the patents to solid state batteries in three years time that are 3x the energy density, 1/2 the cost and 10x the reliability of Elon's batteries? Where does that leave the forward thinking then? He will have the world's biggest building manufacturing something nobody wants anymore.

This competition is far from over and the old guard still know a thing or two about building cars and how to make a buck.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:23 AM
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No wonder the Forbes article sounds so biased. Arne Alsin, who is the author of said article, is a Tesla shareholder. I wouldn't pay much attention to what he says at this point and read it as an interest piece.

It's too early to say GM lost, especially when people who put in a deposit for the Model 3 has no idea when they'll be getting the vehicle and those near the end of the list will have a very long time to wait. May as well get the Bolt that's already on the market and discounted.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 11:14 AM
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LOL, in 3 years when Tesla sells the model 3, I will have driven 70,000 miles in my Bolt, saved about $8000 in fuel, maintenance and other related items, and I will have done my part keeping pollution down.

The answer is here! now! available!

I am glad that Tesla exists today and that they give a wake up call to the big players. Think about it, if it wasn't for Apple we might not have such great products from Samsung, Sony, LG, Asus, etc, someone set the bar for this companies and give them a wake up call, competition is good, I hope Tesla produces an amazing car for the average consumer, till then Ill be driving my Bolt.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 07:10 PM
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Agree it's a stupid article used as clickbait but some of you are not up to speed.
"LOL, in 3 years when Tesla sells the model 3,"
You do realize they have skipped Beta and gone straight to "release candidates" this week as a result of the QC testing. If anything, they are ahead of schedule.
"He will have the world's biggest building manufacturing something nobody wants anymore"
The Giga factory is just a building. They can make buggy whips there if they want. Nevada did not require that they can only make Li-ion batteries there. They've already retooled it to handle some of the manufacturing for the Model 3 until the Freemont factory 2X addition is complete.
Relax and enjoy your Bolt. What Tesla does has no impact on you. All of us with EV's are on the same team. Let it go. Pick on HFC's if you really want some low hanging fruit.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 07:52 PM
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The Giga factory is just a building. They can make buggy whips there if they want. Nevada did not require that they can only make Li-ion batteries there.
That's true. However if a big building like that becomes inactive, it becomes a liability. The point I was really trying to make is that people like to say how forward thinking Tesla is for investing so heavily in Li-ion battery production, while everybody else depends on other, smaller established manufacturers for their batteries, but to me that is a pretty big risk. It is my belief that in 20 years time, nobody is going to be using Li-ion batteries for anything. In my mind, the science of battery chemistry is no where near settled, so to invest big time in a technology that very well be obsolete in maybe five - ten years seems risky.

I think the traditional manufacturers have it right. Expand production as demand increases rather than build it and hope they come. Admittedly the slow, conservative approach doesn't grab headlines much.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:19 PM
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But you still think that the giga-factory can only make one battery technology and that's not true. They have to build a battery now. They choose to build what they think, as well as most reputable scientists think is the best battery for the job now. Once a proven technology comes along to dethrone li-ion, they will revamp to that chemistry.
Elon has stated repeatedly, don't send me your powerpoint or thesis on your miracle battery, send me the battery. He's still waiting. He gets flooded with these greatest invention since sliced bread announcements all the time.
It's not as though they built it at an altitude that is only conducive to manufacturing a widget that requires that geological location. As long as they have energy/water/labor, they can build flux capacitors if they want. How different is it than the Freemont plant they bought for pennies on the dollar when GM/Toyota left. It's just a building.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 10:45 PM
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But you still think that the giga-factory can only make one battery technology and that's not true. They have to build a battery now. They choose to build what they think, as well as most reputable scientists think is the best battery for the job now. Once a proven technology comes along to dethrone li-ion, they will revamp to that chemistry.
Elon has stated repeatedly, don't send me your powerpoint or thesis on your miracle battery, send me the battery. He's still waiting. He gets flooded with these greatest invention since sliced bread announcements all the time.
It's not as though they built it at an altitude that is only conducive to manufacturing a widget that requires that geological location. As long as they have energy/water/labor, they can build flux capacitors if they want. How different is it than the Freemont plant they bought for pennies on the dollar when GM/Toyota left. It's just a building.
Yes, but if Elon doesn't hold the patent on the new battery, he may be the odd man out. The assumption seems to be that Tesla will always have the latest technology under their control and that may not be the case. Who knows?

In the case of the building, the difference is they are still paying for the new building and the NUMMI plant was basically a gift. There is also the issue of size. Big building = big headaches.

I am not a doomsayer and I am not saying Tesla will fail. They may well survive the next down turn and be fine. I'm just saying the Tesla is not a 100% done deal that the Tesla fans want to make them out to be. There is a lot of risk in what they are doing.

I'm not a Tesla hater, but I do get annoyed with Tesla fans who declare all that is not Tesla is doomed to ruin and failure.
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