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GM Will Launch 20 New EVs By 2023

25K views 101 replies 41 participants last post by  Rmay635703 
#1 ·


General Motors is on a roll when it comes with electric vehicles, with a lofty goal of launching 20 new all-electric vehicles by 2023 and introducing the first two in the next 18 months.

Confirmed in a press release yesterday, Mark Reuss, vice president of global product development said, "GM believes the future is all electric." Although their vision of a world with zero emissions will take time and effort from all manufacturers, GM is committed to making it a reality and tackling the problem with a two-pronged approach; battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell electric.

The first two new all-electric vehicles will be engineered based on what GM has learned from the Chevrolet Bolt EV and they’ll feature an “all-new battery system,” reports Automotive News. Perhaps a good place for Bolt feedback and a list of areas needing improvement would be our forum’s Nitpick thread and of course, who can forget the ongoing seat complaint thread.

Not only is GM electrifying personal vehicles, the automaker is also working on a Silent Utility Rover Universal Superstructure (SURUS) concept. Sitting on a heavy-duty truck frame featuring a fuel-cell powertrain, four-wheel steering, and two electric motors, it is meant for use in delivery vehicles, trucks or even ambulances.

So far, GM has not specified which of its sub-brands will be receiving these vehicles so we’ll just have to wait and see.
 
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#4 ·
Those types of cars will have a Volt class battery or less, and won't get much range on the batteries. They will have great milage though, 50+ probably. Main energy savings is reduced reliance on gas and regenerative braking. They may or may not be plug in. I think GM's approach with the Volt where the engine is more to charge the batteries than drive the wheels, but I'd guess these larger hybrids would probably take more of a Prius approach. OTOH GM has all of it's experience with the Volt, so they may well just continue with that, which is what I consider a superior approach.
 
#5 ·
Without a charging network like Tesla, I think GM needs to be careful about expanding too much here. If I buy a second electric vehicle to replace my ICE it would have to be a Tesla with the supercharging network. The Bolt is the perfect commuter car and I have 13,000 miles on it so far. However, if I drive further than 100 miles one way I drive the other car. Don't trust the charging networks yet or the EVGO chargers are crazy expensive. Cheaper to just drive my Explorer on long trips.

The news I want to hear is that GM is partnering with Tesla on making a more powerful charging network. If that happened I would be buying a second Bolt right now.
 
#6 ·
Just an idea but get the second Bolt and rent a car for long trips. Renting is easy and cheap, leave your Bolt parked at the dealership and it's there when you get back. That's my approach eventually.

On GM I don't think they will or necessarily should work on the charging/supply side of the equation. They're on the demand side which is more powerful and profitable, by pumping out EV's of various types they are creating demand for EV charging supply. Shell is saying they'll invest $4.5B in electrifying their gas stations and already have a pilot program in a few countries (not the US). As demand grows expect this to turn into a race. Gas stations are pretty ideal as charging stations, they usually have extra parking, electrical infrastructure and with people hanging out for a half hour or so they can make the real money which is off the shop.

At any rate their early push into mainstream EV's may not even have charging, with the larger vehicles I'd expect to see HEV's due to the present day energy density of batteries.
 
#10 ·
For reasons I will not go into, the Level 2 station on our campus will cost nearly $10K.

For a Level 3 station, the trenching is expensive, the copper is expensive (e.g. $15/foot x 100 feet = $1500), the inverter to change ac into dc is expensive, the transformer which changes line voltage of 17K volts down to 450 volts is expensive, the non-networked unit may be $5500 and if networked, $7500. Labor will be upwards of $150/hour x two people times 20 hours. But I still do not see why it should cost $30K...
 
#11 ·
You obviously are not aware of the future of chargingnetworks - they will NOT be Tesla networks, which can only charge their cars. All of the automakers are going to BAE Combo, CCS , which just recently upgraded their specs to include 350 KW chargers, as opposed to the 120 KW chargers now in Tesla's network. It doesn't reqiore a lot of thought to realize that the auto companies are not goingto own the networks, nor shoud they - they should be independent, with real competition, just like current gas stations.
And you will need LOTS of charging pods , as over 120 new electric models have been announced the the automakers over the next few years. We have 1 million gas pumps. A charger can't recharge as fast as a gas pump can refuel, so, all things equal, you would presumably need 5 times more chargers, EXCEPT for the fact that a lot of folks can recharge at home and only need DCFCs on trips or if unable to recharge at home.
Also , Tesla has no patents on anything of importance, including their supercharger protocols. Any company can build electrics that can be charged rapidly - that is what
GM was referring to when they talked about improving the batteries. Until now, CCS chargers were limited I believe to 75 KW. That has all changed. And since all the automakers are using that protocol, that is the protocol that all of the charging stations will use, and they will VASTLY outnumber Tesla Supercharger stations. There will be one on every corner, not every 80 miles like Tesla. Tesla will have to give up their supercharger protocol and join everyone else.
 
#32 ·
Great post, and a point that appears for the most part to be overlooked by the majority of people discussing it. I believe the he said she said controversy regarding Tesla's supercharging network and whether or not they are pretending, or actually want others to join in is really playing second fiddle to the behind the scenes story of the race to dominate the charging standard. And while I agree the future of EV charging will definitely be something other then the Tesla network of today, I think it is still up in the air as to how it will all play out. It may be that initially more then one charging standard becomes the accepted norm in the near longterm, but even that will be prone to undergo further iterations as technologies continue to evolve.

The point I would like to stress here though is that the current Tesla supercharger network was never intended to be the be all to end all. It was intended, and actually mission critical, to get the EV ball rolling so to speak. Without the supercharging network, the Model S would have probably never reached the early success that it did. So whether one standard wins out over another, or multiple standards become the adopted norm is really not the issue of importance that it appears today. What is important is that the Tesla supercharger network has got everyone else playing ball.
 
#13 ·
You and me both! Sadly, 2 seat roadsters just aren't very popular. Most car companies struggle with them, particularly anything even close to affordable. There was a company that tried to make an electric Solstice conversion that they were hoping to market, but the prototype turned out so bad, they abandoned the project. There is a remote possibility that the next generation Corvette may have an optional hybrid drive system and it could even be a plug in, but all electric is unlikely.

Supposedly, Tesla's going to make another roadster... someday if we all live long enough. Start saving now, it won't be cheap.
 
#16 ·
When Chevy/GM actually have TV COMMERCIALS to educate buying people and show they are Serious about the BEV, then and only then will I actually believe they want to do as they say.

Although I must say that I am impressed with the Bolt and the distance it can go. The car itself is good, not great but good. About in line with the way they make things now.

Also, when I had the i-MiEV and my truck was being an ass I just rented a car for really long trips. It is easy and cheap when you think about it. No Maintenance, Ins, cleaning housing...
 
#18 ·
Chevy has a TON of ads for ICE cars, tesla has none at all.

Chevy wants to sell ICE, not BEV, shoot they even have a Volt in ads with other ICE cars.

I just think that if they were SERIOUS about launching that many EV cars they would start with the Bolt.

bte I can't tell you how many times people think I say Volt.... another Duh moment Chevy .

Course Mitsubishi did the same, my i-MiEV is odd too. I still don't know how to say it so I just say 'i'
 
#35 ·
I've heard it said that Tesla's Superchargers utilize the J1772-DC protocol, but have a different connector and presumably some way to uniquely identify each vehicle. It would be a simple matter then to open up the Superchargers to the larger market.

What I'm more curious about is if ~400v will remain the standard voltage, or if manufacturers will go higher. Higher voltages are key to speedier charging since it allows the charging cables to run thinner wires and possibly not require liquid cooling. Heck, most (all?) CCS chargers are rated to 500v. Going to 800v doubles the charging speed for essentially free. Demand charges (the monthly fixed cost to supply a peak current) are expensive, so going to a higher voltage would reduce these fixed monthly costs or allow faster charging. Faster charging would reduce the number of chargers needed as cars could cycle through quicker.

There isn't much info out there as to the voltage of the future, but there might be a lot of potential for gains in this area.
 
#36 ·
I've heard it said that Tesla's Superchargers utilize the J1772-DC protocol, but have a different connector and presumably some way to uniquely identify each vehicle. It would be a simple matter then to open up the Superchargers to the larger market.
My understanding is that Tesla communicates using the CANbus (like CHAdeMO), whereas the CCS standard is IEEE.1901 (power line). The SAE J1772 seems to be standard for the EVSEs, but that still has to be filtered through whatever vehicle's onboard charger.

What I'm more curious about is if ~400v will remain the standard voltage, or if manufacturers will go higher. Higher voltages are key to speedier charging since it allows the charging cables to run thinner wires and possibly not require liquid cooling. Heck, most (all?) CCS chargers are rated to 500v. Going to 800v doubles the charging speed for essentially free. Demand charges (the monthly fixed cost to supply a peak current) are expensive, so going to a higher voltage would reduce these fixed monthly costs or allow faster charging. Faster charging would reduce the number of chargers needed as cars could cycle through quicker.

There isn't much info out there as to the voltage of the future, but there might be a lot of potential for gains in this area.
It appears that higher voltages are the direction most automakers are going. I'm actually surprised that GM stuck with the 96 cell series format, but it probably saves gobs of cash. I believe the Hyundai Kona Electric and KIA e-Niro use 98 cell series. Jaguar is using the 108 cell series, which results in a nominal pack voltage of 400 V (as opposed to the Bolt EV's ~350 V).

Many of the higher power CCS chargers are actually running 600 V, and the CCS standard (and I believe CHAdeMO as well) has been updated to support 1,000 V charging. I think that's where things will be in next few years. Expect economy cars to still have nominal pack voltages of 350 to 450 V, but luxury and higher cost EVs will probably come standard with 600 to 800 V packs.
 
#51 ·
Still waiting on the 20 EV's.
chill dude, 2 down 18 to go. Last time I checked it was still April of 2019 and not yet 2023, are you that far ahead of me in the time-space continuum?

But seriously yes, we all enjoy our GM EV's so much that we are anxiously awaiting the next GM US offerings, I don't personally care much what they introduce in China, meanwhile....we are all watching Tesla skimming the treetops and hoping they can gain some altitude, they have contributed significantly to the EV party, the more participants the better
 
#55 ·
Being a legacy car maker has its challenges. Your customers are demonstrating, daily, that they want the biggest, least efficient vehicle the bank will give them a loan for, while you see a coming perfect storm of recession, oil supply instability, and climate action sure to wreck your business model.
 
#58 ·
GM EV truck news

https://insideevs.com/news/347293/electric-pickup-truck-chevy-gmc/


"General Motors CEO Mary Barra has just confirmed that the automaker is indeed readying an electric pickup truck to compete with the likes of the electric Ford F-150 and Rivian R1T.




As Barra stated, electric "full-size pickups" are indeed in the future plans for the automaker. No further details were provided. Therefore, we don't even know if the electric truck will be a Chevrolet, GMC or other make. It's all up in the air at the moment, aside from full confirmation that an electric truck is in the works."
 
#59 ·
As Barra stated, electric "full-size pickups" are indeed in the future plans for the automaker. No further details were provided. Therefore, we don't even know if the electric truck will be a Chevrolet, GMC or other make. It's all up in the air at the moment, aside from full confirmation that an electric truck is in the works."
Full confirmation of talk about it.

.....confirmed that the automaker is indeed readying an electric pickup truck.....
How we put our wishes into words - "indeed readying". Makes it sound like it just needs a little polish on the paint.
 
#60 ·
Rivian, who actually has a mid-sized concept truck to show us says:

Rivian said:
Preorders require a deposit of $1,000. Production will begin in 2020. Fully-equipped vehicles with the highest performance level and largest battery pack will enter production first. Our 180 kWh and 135 kWh packs will be available at launch, with the base variant to follow within 12 months of the start of production.
I'm pulling for them big time but I have to look at this and wonder where I've seen this already.

This is the closest to "in the works" we've seen since the VIA and Workhorse disappeared. Also note:

Rivian said:
Starting price of $69,000 before the Federal Tax rebate.
For the price of a Jaguar I-Pace........
 
#71 ·
So they might have achieved half that goal, which is pretty good. I don't really care, I just like to review pronouncements about the future to see if they come true at the time stated.

The thing is, if it's 2017 and you announce 20 new EVs by 2023, that means you are already developing those cars now, or will start within the next year. It takes 4-5 years to go from deciding to make a particular car, to production. That means that when the pandemic hit in 2020, they should have already been far into the development process for all 20 of the EVs they had planned. I doubt the pandemic caused many, if any EVs to not be delivered. Who knows though, everything is wonky these days.
 
#72 ·
The pandemic delayed alot. I was on a program for an OEM car manufacturer that they delayed over a year after the pandemic started. Its been pretty nuts getting anything to build anything. One supplier told me a month or so ago main power switches for electrical panels,. Normally throw away. Buy it anywhere. 3 to 4 month wait right now for some popular models.
 
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