Problems with Juicebox Pro 40 - Chevy Bolt EV Forum
User Tag List

 13Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
DavidAnnArbor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ann Arbor Michigan
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to DavidAnnArbor
(Thread Starter)
Problems with Juicebox Pro 40

Back in mid-February I had my level 2 charging station installed in my garage.
The requirements for the station are that it is on a separate circuit, bypassing the house breaker panel. This separate circuit in turn is attached to a separate electrical vehicle meter.
The circuit was grounded.
The circuit for the car is a 50 AMP service, using 6 AWG aluminum wire, XHHW conductivity.
I used to have an old electric dryer plug in my basement which I don't use anymore when I installed a natural gas dryer instead.
I have a 100 AMP service to my house. The central A/C goes on and off periodically at night during the summer.
The electrical work passed inspection.

The first Juicebox I received worked fine from up til June 11th and then all three lights started blinking. I believe I would get three rapid blinks. I unplugged it, and plugged it back in but it would revert back to the three blinking lights. Emotorwerks sent me a replacement. But then after a few days of not being plugged in, I plugged the original Juicebox back in again and it started working.

Emotorwerks suggested I still use the new replacement one instead, and so I sent the first Juicebox back to the company.

The second Juice box worked for around a month and a half, and then it stopped working. I now get 5 blinking lights.
It stopped working sometime in the middle of the night around August 18th, after completing a charge. I've unplugged and waited days at a time and it never started back again.

A 3rd Juicebox is being sent.

Not sure what's going on. And how to solve this problem if the 3rd Juicebox also fails.

I've used a public Level 2 charger to charge my vehicle, and have no problems using those chargers.

David
DavidAnnArbor is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 01:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,865
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1251 Post(s)
I would have an electrician check out the circuit before plugging another JuiceBox in.
Terry Hancock likes this.
NewsCoulomb is offline  
post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
DavidAnnArbor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ann Arbor Michigan
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to DavidAnnArbor
(Thread Starter)
The 5 beep error code for Juicebox is:

"Check your ground wire in both the panel, and at the device termination (hard-wired or outlet plugged into) to make sure all connections are tight. If error persists after unplugging and rebooting the JuiceBox, and your car will not charge, please contact support."

David
DavidAnnArbor is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 02:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,167
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 778 Post(s)
Aluminum wire? Have to be real careful about the torque on the lugs if that's the case. Aluminum can develop an oxide that would raise the resistance and might prevent a proper ground. Could be why we're getting fault codes now after several months have gone by. Would immediately get an electrician to check it out.
Terry Hancock likes this.
XJ12 is offline  
post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 03:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Pike Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Portland, ME
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJ12 View Post
Aluminum wire? Have to be real careful about the torque on the lugs if that's the case. Aluminum can develop an oxide that would raise the resistance and might prevent a proper ground. Could be why we're getting fault codes now after several months have gone by. Would immediately get an electrician to check it out.

Very true. You would also want the electrician to carefully review grounding and bonding in your setup. They are not the same thing.


Your description of a separate meter for EVSE implies that the 240V circuit for the EVSE needs to have its neutral wire bonded (connected) to an earth or plumbing ground at the meter. Your Juicebox would then be connected behind a new 50A breaker. This breaker box needs to be both bonded and grounded, neutral to ground. This makes Neutral=Ground.


The thinking is that Juicebox, as do many open source EVSE, do not use the neutral wire, assuming that Ground=Neutral. The problem arises if Ground does not equal Neutral due to an error in bonding or other issue. The EVSE bases its GFI as well as internal control voltages on having Ground=Neutral. An improperly referenced ground can cause the alarms you report.


Again, earth ground resistance moves around constantly depending on temperature, rainfall, and mineralization of the soil where the ground rod is. (My suspicion is Ann Arbor, with warmer minimum summer temperatures, is causing some ground drift. You installed in February when mean temperatures were in the 30F range. In summer, you are finding temperatures in the 70F range. Those will change ground resistance.)

You may want to reference your electrician to NEC 250 (National Electrical Code).



Good luck!
Terry Hancock likes this.

2017 Bolt EV Premier with Cajun Red Tintcoat and Driver Confidence II package
Pike Bishop is online now  
post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
DavidAnnArbor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ann Arbor Michigan
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to DavidAnnArbor
(Thread Starter)
Yes in reference to this, "Your description of a separate meter for EVSE implies that the 240V circuit for the EVSE needs to have its neutral wire bonded (connected) to an earth or plumbing ground at the meter. Your Juicebox would then be connected behind a new 50A breaker."

The electrician created a ground at the meter, and there was a new 50A breaker.

But I will reference all these ideas when I contact the electrician.

I hope this doesn't become an intractable problem for me.

David
DavidAnnArbor is offline  
post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 05:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Pike Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Portland, ME
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAnnArbor View Post
Yes in reference to this, "Your description of a separate meter for EVSE implies that the 240V circuit for the EVSE needs to have its neutral wire bonded (connected) to an earth or plumbing ground at the meter. Your Juicebox would then be connected behind a new 50A breaker."

The electrician created a ground at the meter, and there was a new 50A breaker.

But I will reference all these ideas when I contact the electrician.

I hope this doesn't become an intractable problem for me.

It should not be a problem, yet you should have your electrician check it out. There are still other possibilities including the Juicebox being defective.



Taking the hypothesis that your electrician made an honest mistake and wired the EVSE disconnect as a sub-panel (a panel connected to another panel through a breaker), the electrician would not have bonded the neutral to ground. This causes a problem for the EVSE.


Here is a diagram from an electrical inspection site.
A subpanel (on the right) has no connection (bond) between a local ground and the neutral.



When Juicebox asks installers to "not use the neutral" and connect only the ground of a 4-wire circuit, Juicebox designers are assuming their EVSE will be connected directly to a breaker in a main panel (middle). In a main panel, ground is directly connected to neutral.


The problem is that all of the electricity coming into your Juicebox is referenced to the neutral line, and really wants to get back to neutral. If you connect a Juicebox to the right hand side sub-panel, you throw a very long circuit for ground to get back to neutral. This may mix up ground faults or affect any 110V used in the EVSE (for 12V DC, for example).


Again, your electrician probably did the correct connection, but if not, correcting it is just a few screw turns. It's worth a check.

2017 Bolt EV Premier with Cajun Red Tintcoat and Driver Confidence II package
Pike Bishop is online now  
post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-26-2018, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
DavidAnnArbor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ann Arbor Michigan
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to DavidAnnArbor
(Thread Starter)
Thank you Pike Bishop

David
DavidAnnArbor is offline  
post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
DavidAnnArbor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ann Arbor Michigan
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to DavidAnnArbor
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pike Bishop View Post
It should not be a problem, yet you should have your electrician check it out. There are still other possibilities including the Juicebox being defective.



Taking the hypothesis that your electrician made an honest mistake and wired the EVSE disconnect as a sub-panel (a panel connected to another panel through a breaker), the electrician would not have bonded the neutral to ground. This causes a problem for the EVSE.


Here is a diagram from an electrical inspection site.
A subpanel (on the right) has no connection (bond) between a local ground and the neutral.



When Juicebox asks installers to "not use the neutral" and connect only the ground of a 4-wire circuit, Juicebox designers are assuming their EVSE will be connected directly to a breaker in a main panel (middle). In a main panel, ground is directly connected to neutral.


The problem is that all of the electricity coming into your Juicebox is referenced to the neutral line, and really wants to get back to neutral. If you connect a Juicebox to the right hand side sub-panel, you throw a very long circuit for ground to get back to neutral. This may mix up ground faults or affect any 110V used in the EVSE (for 12V DC, for example).


Again, your electrician probably did the correct connection, but if not, correcting it is just a few screw turns. It's worth a check.
The electrician came out today and I printed out what you wrote and showed him the diagram also.
In the diagram he said it's not a subpanel, it's its own main panel (main breaker). He said the panel is both bonded and grounded correctly, neutral to ground.
This panel is grounded both to the water meter/plumbing, and secondarily also to the ground rod outside.

He said that the aluminum has anti-oxidant compounds on all connections which he also checked again, i think i saw him adding some electrical tape.

The junction box located above the charger unit has aluminum to copper junctions, and it is dual rated, and he checked the split bull connections and they are all tight, but just to be sure he replaced them with polar taps instead of split bulls. He said the junction box is grounded.

He then suggested that maybe the problem is with the Juicebox itself. He pulled out his phone and showed me a picture of Costco's Siemens brand charger.

Just after he left, the new Juicebox arrived. I installed it, and got it up and running. I am now letting my car charge because it's a bit low, and so far everything is working.
XJ12 and Terry Hancock like this.

David
DavidAnnArbor is offline  
post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 05:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Yorkville, IL
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAnnArbor View Post
The electrician came out today and I printed out what you wrote and showed him the diagram also.
In the diagram he said it's not a subpanel, it's its own main panel (main breaker). He said the panel is both bonded and grounded correctly, neutral to ground.
This panel is grounded both to the water meter/plumbing, and secondarily also to the ground rod outside.

He said that the aluminum has anti-oxidant compounds on all connections which he also checked again, i think i saw him adding some electrical tape.

The junction box located above the charger unit has aluminum to copper junctions, and it is dual rated, and he checked the split bull connections and they are all tight, but just to be sure he replaced them with polar taps instead of split bulls. He said the junction box is grounded.

He then suggested that maybe the problem is with the Juicebox itself. He pulled out his phone and showed me a picture of Costco's Siemens brand charger.

Just after he left, the new Juicebox arrived. I installed it, and got it up and running. I am now letting my car charge because it's a bit low, and so far everything is working.



I had the exact same issue( 5 Beeps, stopping in middle of charge, reset clears it up for a while) with my Juice box last year when I first got it. Thought it was wiring as well.

The folks at EMotorwerks sent me out an updated unit ( new firmware) and all has been fine since.
bbg523 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome