NY Daily News Bolt EV review (and confirmation of 80 kW fast charging?) - Chevy Bolt EV Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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NY Daily News Bolt EV review (and confirmation of 80 kW fast charging?)

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/lat...icle-1.2891098

Most interesting part is the blurb about there being 1,200 Chevy dealers signed up to become Bolt-certified, and that they will need to install at least 1 480V, 80 kW-capable DC fast charging station in the service bay. Why would GM require an 80 kW DCFC station? Because the Bolt's max fast charging rate is 80 kW! This dealer requirement basically confirms the Bolt can charge at up to 80 kW.

About 1,200 of Chevy’s 3,000 dealers will sell and service the Bolt, and each must have 480-volt, 80kW fast-charging capability in the service bay.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 11:40 AM
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In one of the posted videos with a GM engineer on a test drive, he mentioned 80 kW DCFC on the Bolt. Not sure if that was a slip or mistake, and it may be the source for that number?

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DucRider View Post
In one of the posted videos with a GM engineer on a test drive, he mentioned 80 kW DCFC on the Bolt. Not sure if that was a slip or mistake, and it may be the source for that number?
The Bolt's chief engineer also let the 80 kW number slip during a press conference at the LA auto show.

So that's 3 instances of a very specific number being put out there. I don't think it's simply some mistake...the Bolt will have a 80 kW fast charging rate!

Now just need some higher than 50 kW CCS stations to actually come into existence now....
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 01:02 PM
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The fact that its fast charging is great but hopefully that`s what they had intended from the start, rather not have the battery being negatively impacted by fast charging.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 02:13 PM
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The fact that the fast charging stations will be installed in the service bays is cause for some concern. Basically it means that you'll be able to get the pack topped up (at least to 80%) while the car is being serviced, but in many cases won't be able to stop at the dealership just to charge - especially after hours. This is how it is with many Nissan dealers with L-2 stations.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftieBiker View Post
The fact that the fast charging stations will be installed in the service bays is cause for some concern. Basically it means that you'll be able to get the pack topped up (at least to 80%) while the car is being serviced, but in many cases won't be able to stop at the dealership just to charge - especially after hours. This is how it is with many Nissan dealers with L-2 stations.
Why the concern?
Were you counting on regularly Fast Charging at the dealer?
And do you think that the dealer should pay thousands of dollars extra to locate the DCFC where it is publicly accessible 24/7?
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 04:40 PM
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Listen to the quote from the Chevy spokesman and the advantage for the dealer and consumer is obvious.
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Originally Posted by DrZip View Post
At the 2017 Bolt EV press conference from Loews SMB Hotel before the LAautoshow,
Chevy announced about 8 minutes into the press conference that all Bolt dealers are required to install DC fast chargers support stations in the service bay.
See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ8P7Ooo-7w
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Why the concern?
Were you counting on regularly Fast Charging at the dealer?
And do you think that the dealer should pay thousands of dollars extra to locate the DCFC where it is publicly accessible 24/7?
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 05:59 PM
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Listen to the quote from the Chevy spokesman and the advantage for the dealer and consumer is obvious.
Yeah talks about why they require it in the service department.

Says a few dealers near shopping like Whole Foods or Target are stepping up to install public charging, but he never even implies it makes sense for most dealers to do that.

Any public charging would be in addition to the one mandated by Chevy in the Service Bay, so you're talking an additional $25K+ for each DCFC unit available to the public. Last figures I saw placed the average install of DCFC @ $45K.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 06:54 PM
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DucRider: The first one is the big expense, with the 3 phase requirements to install, additional DCFC units are incrementally less expensive, plus the potential dealership revenues, not just from charging fees, but from getting prospective customers in the dealership for the 45 minutes of charge is priceless.

Quote:
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Yeah talks about why they require it in the service department.
Says a few dealers near shopping like Whole Foods or Target are stepping up to install public charging, but he never even implies it makes sense for most dealers to do that. ...
Original link:
https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/42290-post10.html
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 10:23 PM
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The first one is the big expense, with the 3 phase requirements to install, additional DCFC units are incrementally less expensive, plus the potential dealership revenues, not just from charging fees, but from getting prospective customers in the dealership for the 45 minutes of charge is priceless.


Original link:
https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/42290-post10.html
I'm sorry, but your post makes very little sense.

1) "The first one is the big expense, with the 3 phase requirements to install, additional DCFC units are incrementally less expensive"

Many, many light industrial installations in the US already have 3-phase available. In an automobile garage bay with 4+ hydraulic car lifts and 220V power tools in use continually? They probably already have 3-phase installed. A 50+ kW charger all by itself costs a huge amount of $$$. Trenching and installing 4-8 gauge wiring in a code-compliant manner is also pretty darn expensive - the further away (for example, OUTSIDE the bay and AWAY from the existing lines), the more expensive it will cost.


2) "plus the potential dealership revenues, not just from charging fees"

If you think they are going to make much money from charging fees you are smoking crack. Supposing they sell electricity at .25/kWh (not cheap, not terribly expensive). Suppose they make a profit of $0.05 above the per-kWh electricity cost. 20 kWh sold for $1 profit - 20,000 kWh for $1000 - 1,000,000 kWh for $50,000 (guestimated cost just to buy & install a 50 kW DCFC). Suppose 10 different cars a day pay to consume, each for 30 mins, at full blast (50 kW). That's 250 kWh. 1M/250 = 4,000 DAYS to simply break even. And I didn't even toss in the "on demand" charges from the utility company (the amount extra per kWh you must pay when you pull over a specified rate - and those charges can be HUGE).

Suppose instead that the dealer charges $0.40/kWh (probably close to TWICE what the user would pay by charging at home, if not more than twice) AND assume that 10 people are still willing to pay that much every single day for 30 mins of charge (instead of simply charging at home for a lot cheaper). It would only take 1,000 days to break even (about 3 years) - still not addressing the on-demand charges.

So the only realistic profits ARE the non-charging type. What type of 'potential revenues' will the dealer make? Well, not fees from servicing the vehicle (there is very little service and the customer would be going there anyway).

3) "getting prospective customers in the dealership for the 45 minutes of charge".

Anybody using the DCFC already has an EV, and on top of that has an EV with a DCFC plug. How is the business going to make money through luring people that already have an electric vehicle to their dealership? Because they'll switch? Honestly, when I switch EVs I am going to look at every vehicle available and not make a spur-of-the-moment buying decision because I was already there charging my car (or only consider the vehicle in question because I was there for the DCFC).

Would I like my close-by dealer to have a DCFC? Sure! Will I drive out of my way and pay the same or (worse) much more than I pay at home for electricity? **** no! (Unless I had to, of course - and my 'having to charge' doesn't benefit the dealer one little bit.)

The DCFC at the dealer is there for the dealer.

{Edit: wow!!! H-E-double-toothpicks is censored on this site? How completely ridiculous! }

Last edited by SparkE; 11-29-2016 at 10:26 PM.
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