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I have been a cyclist for 50 years and I can assure you, pace lines, and riding 2-3 abreast are accidents waiting to happen. In the last decade here in Virginia, there have been several road rage incidents where drivers deliberately plowed into groups "blocking the road."
Scary 😣
 

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Scary 😣
The most important thing you can do as a cyclist, is get one of these mirrors, and use it.. I have had one on every ride since the early 1990s.


After that comes a bright flashing LED taillight, and bright, and/or reflective shirt.
 

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Discussion Starter #245
Hey! Did you look at my response on the electronics loop? I think it is 'friggin' brilliant myself. :)
I was out driving Uber when you posted. trying to wrap my head around what you are throwing at me..

What's the whole point make the SPIM hotter?

I'm refreshing with DR Kelly..





My Take is to simply use
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See which electronics stay the hottest then encapslete them with HVAC insualtion ..
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Connet the Air Inlet
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through the HVAC insulation and pull in all the hot air...

Nice Preheater for the PTC heater ...using NO energy ..just air flow
 

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What's the whole point make the SPIM hotter?
The point is, the outside of all those electronic components is cooler than the coolant running through them. Why go to all the effort of making an insulated enclosure to pull heat off the outside of them, when you can route the coolant heated by them directly into the car's heater core?...just like Tesla does...I think.

Follow the arrows. The cooled coolant leaves the radiator, and goes into the SPIM, picks up heat, goes into the Accessory battery charger, picks up heat, goes into the onboard charger, picks up heat, goes into the motor/trans cooler, picks up heat, and then goes into the cabin heater core, dumps heat, then out to the reservoir, then the pump, then the radiator, dumps heat...repeat.

elec coolant loop mod.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #247
The point is, the outside of all those electronic components is cooler than the coolant running through them. Why go to all the effort of making an insulated enclosure to pull heat off the outside of them, when you can route the coolant heated by them directly into the car's heater core?...just like Tesla does...I think.

View attachment 34241
OK I see.. I like everything except the "I THINK" 😁
 

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OK I see.. I like everything except the "I THINK" 😁
We know that Tesla uses the Octovalve to direct coolant from hot electronic components to the heat something. I used to assume it was the cabin, but it turns out they use a PTC cabin heater, and now a heat pump too. So I assume they use the scavenged heat for the battery. You don't have control over when the battery heater pump runs, but you do have control over the fan speed , and duct flaps in the cabin, and the electronic loop pump is running any time the car is on, or charging.
 

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OK I see.. I like everything except the "I THINK" 😁
The thing to do is check the inverter, motor, and gearbox temps to make sure they tend to run as hot, or hotter than the air from the vents put out by your PTC heater. Otherwise you will just end up heating up the heater core. All my shots are from the car in the garage. I haven't done a run down the highway to see what they get to in cold weather. You can see here that the inverter is hotter than the motor and gearbox while sitting in the garage, I think I recall them getting much hotter than the inverter on the highway.

not balancing 4.jpg
 

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OK I see.. I like everything except the "I THINK" 😁
The ideal would be if the heater core was where your PTC heater is, and the PTC heater was where the heater core is. I am sure a downstream PTC heater could always be made hotter than the electronics loop heated heater core. Too bad GM didn't do this.
 

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It seems it would be easier to put diverter valves in the electronics coolant loop lines, and routine that coolant through the heater core, on its way to the radiator, since you aren't using the tankless heater anyway. The only reason for valves would be to take the heater core out of the loop in nice weather.
If messing with diverter valves or heat transfer between coolant loops:

Have the AC condenser heat up the HVAC heat loop. This lets you run the AC as a dehumidifier in winter, while putting the heat back into the cabin. (It's not a fullblown heat pump since it can't pull heat from outside, but can dehumidify the cabin and in this case, return the heat back to the cabin.)

Pulling in any outside air using the standard inlet door will murder your efficiency because you are warming up cold air. This needs to be mitigated before any other approach to trying to improve HVAC performance, either by:
1) Using a heat recovery ventilator to transfer the heat from stale cabin air exiting the vehicle to the makeup air.
2) Implementing a dehumidifier that eliminates the need to bring in outside air for humidity control
 

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If messing with diverter valves or heat transfer between coolant loops:
Yeah. This is all well and good for car designers. I am talking about what an owner could conceivably do to increase efficiency. If the heater core were placed where the air filter is now, all waste heat from the high power electronics would go to warming incoming air. Then putting the PTC heater where the heater core is. The tankless heater would be dumped.

This is a modification I could imagine doing, if I lived in the frozen north. Relatively simple for a garage tinker, with no HVAC engineering degree required.
 

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Yeah. This is all well and good for car designers. I am talking about what an owner could conceivably do to increase efficiency. If the heater core were placed where the air filter is now, all waste heat from the high power electronics would go to warming incoming air. Then putting the PTC heater where the heater core is. The tankless heater would be dumped.

This is a modification I could imagine doing, if I lived in the frozen north. Relatively simple for a garage tinker, with no HVAC engineering degree required.
The only reasonable modifications for us mortals are:
1) Find a location to install a homemade HRV. Not sure if there's a place where you could install an auxiliary ventilator without drilling a big hole in the body
2) Install an auxiliary dehumidifier. I'm considering building a 200-300W Peltier system over the summer.
 

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Discussion Starter #254
OOPS... Testing without spacing =melting


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After checking temps on electroinics it was clear I wasnt going to get much heat from building an "enclosure" and use that to preheat SOooooooooooo


What I do know that works is adding another 300 watts of PTC heaters at the air intakes .. each one of those gets to 250 degrees.. so 300 watts preheat the intake air down to the 1000 watt PTC heater in the Air Filter slot.



The question remains ..How to get another 300 watts ?


1. Any DIY way to increase the battery charging system?

2. I found a 200amp/h battery that will fit ..pulling 1,300 watts I think the math works out to about 4 hours +..so I could at least have half day

3. 300 watt solar panel .(yeah I know efficiency losses and need to have sun)

..
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What else?





I don't want to be playing around with coolant lines, rerouting stuff until AFTER I am out of warranty...which wont be long I am at 82K miles now..added 30K miles in 8 months..

Add on Heat Pump System?..kind of like ductless for house
 

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Discussion Starter #255
I'm considering building a 200-300W Peltier system over the summer.
Entropy thanks.. I wasnt sure what a Peltier system was ...I see this guy make a small one for his boat ... these can be reversed for heat as well ?




Wow ..smallest heat pump.. this would be great ..just need to find room in the "engine compartment"... look how it compares in size to the gas can..and puts out 4,600 btu

And running with 1000 watt inverter .. are we on to something !!

 

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that solar panel pictured on the roof....while is sold and rated as 100W. I was never able to pull more than 50W out of it even on the Texas mid-day sun. I Have the same exact panel, using it to top off my RV's 12V batteries.

You could always go this route :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

 

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Discussion Starter #257
that solar panel pictured on the roof....while is sold and rated as 100W. I was never able to pull more than 50W out of it even on the Texas mid-day sun. I Have the same exact panel.

You could always go this route :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Love it...that's funny..

Yeah 100 watts , I was thinking of mounting 3.

pulling just 50 watt..yep doesnt surprise me with these cheaper panels..



Speaking of Cheap Panels this is where I have purchased before (for house)

Sunelect. 36 cents a wat for purchasing a pallet/25

Solar Panels – Sun Electronics
 

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Entropy thanks.. I wasnt sure what a Peltier system was ...I see this guy make a small one for his boat ... these can be reversed for heat as well ?
Yes. For MOST heat pump applications, Peltiers are inefficient/weak as ****. But if you use more units run at lower power, efficiency goes up.

My thought is to use a setup similar to US4065936A - Counter-flow thermoelectric heat pump with discrete sections - Google Patents to rig up a dehumidifier (Peltier dehumidifiers exist, but they're all low-power single-unit ones and barely do anything.)

Amazon.com: diymore 10pcs TEC1-12715 12V 15A 40MMX40MM Heatsink Thermoelectric Cooler Cooling Peltier Plate Module: Computers & Accessories - wire them in a 3S3P configuration electrically . 3S will greatly reduce the power consumed per unit but greatly increase their efficiency, at the cost of reducing the achievable temperature differential - which is compensated for by the counterflow setup.

TBD whether airflow should be 3S3P too, or 9S. Each unit will only reduce temperature slightly, but if you put them in series, by the time you get to the last unit, you should have very cold air that is condensing out moisture. Then the air is flowed back over the hot sides of each unit. End result is a few hundred watts of heat but more importantly - dehumidification which allows you to avoid using inlet air to prevent fogging.

The question is whether it would actually dehumidify enough to eliminate fogging or not. Any Peltier solution will not be efficient enough to be useful in a traditional heat pump scenario (pulling heat from outside for example), but dehumidification may be achievable. Peltier inefficiency isn't as big of a deal here since we want that waste heat anyway!

The heatsinks needed for this to work wind up more expensive than the Peltier units now. You CANNOT use those Peltier units without heatsinking.
 

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I'm thinking a generator/alternator connected to the wheel might not be such a bad idea. Don't connect it directly to the outside of the wheel with a belt. Have it mounted to the suspension inside the wheel and have a rubber wheel on the generator/alternator ride on the inside of the tire rim, like the old-school bicycle generators.
 

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Discussion Starter #260
Amazon.com: diymore 10pcs TEC1-12715 12V 15A 40MMX40MM Heatsink Thermoelectric Cooler Cooling Peltier Plate Module: Computers & Accessories - wire them in a 3S3P configuration electrically . 3S will greatly reduce the power consumed per unit but greatly increase their efficiency, at the cost of reducing the achievable temperature differential - which is compensated for by the counterflow setup.
Trying to grasp.. these could be used to bring a liquid coolant to a few hundred degrees in a heat pump type setup ?... Not sure I am following ..but keep going my interest is peaked
 
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