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I still cannot figure out how at 19 F outside you do not spend any time on battery conditioning.
I think if One is charging everyday, while plugged in it will keep the battery @ ~50°F and not count it towards battery conditioning. If One is driving around all the time while it's unplugged, I could see how the battery wouldn't get cold enough to trigger battery conditioning usage on the energy usage screen.
 

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It's a freaking AIR FILTER , I don't even recall having a cabin air filter in my cars in the 1970s'.80's when did they even start adding them?

You don't need a professional shop to remove the air filter and insert a heater

Yes it works


The heating fins should vaporize any dust ..yes routine maintenance..just pull it out a clean once in a while, if needed


The DC/DC converter can handle a continuous 1000 watt load with the vehicle "on"


Yes ,I already addressed ...the heater needs to face up not down..facing down it is too close the fan blower motor .. and will melt the fans' fins


This is a Mod for people with a little brass ..if you're too scared, don't do it.
DC to DC is rated at 1600 watts so you are way below maxing out... and regarding that at full power 1000 watts is enough to keep you warm is far away from reality... It will definitely use less energy because your setup cannot exceed 1000 watts. Mild winters above 27°F would keep you somewhat warm.... I'm not here to judge you.... there is definitely less energy used at the setup you are running but it will never get desired temperature while driving or using outside air to heat.... It is definitely interesting what you doing.
You would be more efficient if you can get hands on 120V coolant heater and coolant pump at 1000 watts or more and be more safe...
Just my 20 cents.....
 

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Discussion Starter #163
DC to DC is rated at 1600 watts so you are way below maxing out... and regarding that at full power 1000 watts is enough to keep you warm is far away from reality... It will definitely use less energy because your setup cannot exceed 1000 watts. Mild winters above 27°F would keep you somewhat warm.... I'm not here to judge you.... there is definitely less energy used at the setup you are running but it will never get desired temperature while driving or using outside air to heat.... It is definitely interesting what you doing.
You would be more efficient if you can get hands on 120V coolant heater and coolant pump at 1000 watts or more and be more safe...
Just my 20 cents.....
Morning EV-E , As I have mentioned previously the desired temp on the coldest days is just to keep you warm enough to make it to your next destination and as a Main heater for the rest of winter. This setup is nothing more than a range Extender ..it isn't supposed to keep you all toasty warm like the main heater (on the coldest days). It is to make sure you won't freeze to death while making it that extra 30 miles to a charger that is working. Easily keeps interior 50-60 with recirc on (which is something people keep "forgetting") in below zero temps and upto 80 degrees inside cabin on the warmer summer days

That said anything about 17 degrees or so outside you can run use it simply as your main heater and be plenty warm. I was perfectly comfortable yesterday with temps outside 27 -28(cloudy) and 72 degrees inside the cabin. I had 14 passengers yesterday ...thats 28 pickup/dropoffs and the doors constantly opening and shutting ... and it stayed comfortable inside the car. I pulsed the main heater 3 times for less than 2 minutes because a couple of passengers taking holding the door open taking time to load the infant car seat, loading groceries, and nearly too heavy to even get in the car lol



It is my Main heater now that we have gotten out of the polar vortex conditions. As I have also mentioned before our winters and many others are essentially 6 months long

33614



I start work at 5 am coldest parts of the days 20-30 in the mornings deep into April ...even into May when it is 40-50 in the mornings..you need to run the heat (losing range) at least for a few hours , so it will be nice to gain extra miles even then wont be 50 extra miles but even 10-20 miles extra from in May from not needing to use the cars heater is significant.



Has ANYONE actually installed a 120V heater/coolant pump on a Chevy Bolt ? I recall were were discussing that a few months ago?

I didnt want to do anything that involved tapping into the bolts coolant systems..but sure I'll check out anything people are doing to get extra range
 

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The other thing to consider is the ability to preheat the Bolt so that One and others should be starting with a warm car.
 

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Discussion Starter #165
The other thing to consider is the ability to preheat the Bolt so that One and others should be starting with a warm car.
morning Phuber.. Oh absolutely. My Bolt is also garaged. I always do preheat before I leave for the day
 

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Morning EV-E , As I have mentioned previously the desired temp on the coldest days is just to keep you warm enough to make it to your next destination and as a Main heater for the rest of winter. This setup is nothing more than a range Extender ..it isn't supposed to keep you all toasty warm like the main heater (on the coldest days). It is to make sure you won't freeze to death while making it that extra 30 miles to a charger that is working. Easily keeps interior 50-60 with recirc on (which is something people keep "forgetting") in below zero temps and upto 80 degrees inside cabin on the warmer summer days

That said anything about 17 degrees or so outside you can run use it simply as your main heater and be plenty warm. I was perfectly comfortable yesterday with temps outside 27 -28(cloudy) and 72 degrees inside the cabin. I had 14 passengers yesterday ...thats 28 pickup/dropoffs and the doors constantly opening and shutting ... and it stayed comfortable inside the car. I pulsed the main heater 3 times for less than 2 minutes because a couple of passengers taking holding the door open taking time to load the infant car seat, loading groceries, and nearly too heavy to even get in the car lol



It is my Main heater now that we have gotten out of the polar vortex conditions. As I have also mentioned before our winters and many others are essentially 6 months long

View attachment 33614


I start work at 5 am coldest parts of the days 20-30 in the mornings deep into April ...even into May when it is 40-50 in the mornings..you need to run the heat (losing range) at least for a few hours , so it will be nice to gain extra miles even then wont be 50 extra miles but even 10-20 miles extra from in May from not needing to use the cars heater is significant.



Has ANYONE actually installed a 120V heater/coolant pump on a Chevy Bolt ? I recall were were discussing that a few months ago?

I didnt want to do anything that involved tapping into the bolts coolant systems..but sure I'll check out anything people are doing to get extra range
I'm working on diesel coolant heater 28k btu as we speak...but my setup will be in the spare tire place...it is marine design continuous duty with four stages of heating outputs it happen to have 2 of them laying around in my shop..my setup will be out most people that think to spend on another way to get heat without use of HV battery....it will pull around 100-140 watts from 12V battery .... and around 0.8-2 or less gallon a week in bio diesel depending on how much driving I do ..... Regarding warranty I will only loose heating loop that is not very big deal but rest of the warranty on everything else will be intact. I will be also looking at way to get heat to HV battery in the winter. Your approach is quite amazing. I'm also tired from loosing on average 4-5 kWh to just keep heat in the winter. And there are some setups under the hood already being done.....I'm also considering room under the front fender if there is enough room to get my setup like what they do on BMW X5 with cold weather package ( they staff webasto coolant heater there) . Bolt already has cabin coolant loops and using bio diesel coolant heater is quite good.
I have some of my customer project EVS built with this type of setup and I use a lot of parts from Bolt for my projects......
If you can get hands on complete duct work and heater from junk yard it will give you better idea how to make your setup even better....
And don't get upset from people who don't want to play and make some things better than what they are.....
I get crap from some people because I want to use bio diesel on pure EV .....
And believe me that some people will come up with idea to run electronics loop to the battery loop in the winter.... it is easy to get work and remove if you have to do warranty repair ( take better look at expansion bottles it will give you idea).
 

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I get crap from some people because I want to use bio diesel on pure EV .....
What is the efficiency of this system? Like BTU or kWh per volume or mass of fuel.
Also, noise level?

If we could have over 80% efficient fuel (petrol, diesel, LPG) heater, it would make much more sense, but if you drop to 30% area... then it is questionable per emissions and overall cost of running. As if one kWh of this heat output costs me much more than 1 kWh recharged back to my battery, then I would be asking myself if I really need it.
 

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Discussion Starter #168
32 Degrees and the PTC heater is putting out too much heat..I turned recirc off and that helped. Still too warm and just turned it off for 15 minutes until the car called down .. so yeah it's working great.


and no Freaking Diesel :p (EV_E yeah that was for you lol) I just can't bring myself to add diesel to a EV. But yeah nice project and you'll absolutely regain range you normally would have lost running the car's heater.


I was at 3.6kWh today .hazy sun , clear roads snow tires on
 

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I'm working on diesel coolant heater 28k btu as we speak...but my setup will be in the spare tire place...it is marine design continuous duty with four stages of heating outputs it happen to have 2 of them laying around in my shop..my setup will be out most people that think to spend on another way to get heat without use of HV battery....it will pull around 100-140 watts from 12V battery .... and around 0.8-2 or less gallon a week in bio diesel depending on how much driving I do ..... Regarding warranty I will only loose heating loop that is not very big deal but rest of the warranty on everything else will be intact. I will be also looking at way to get heat to HV battery in the winter. Your approach is quite amazing. I'm also tired from loosing on average 4-5 kWh to just keep heat in the winter. And there are some setups under the hood already being done.....I'm also considering room under the front fender if there is enough room to get my setup like what they do on BMW X5 with cold weather package ( they staff webasto coolant heater there) . Bolt already has cabin coolant loops and using bio diesel coolant heater is quite good.
I have some of my customer project EVS built with this type of setup and I use a lot of parts from Bolt for my projects......
If you can get hands on complete duct work and heater from junk yard it will give you better idea how to make your setup even better....
And don't get upset from people who don't want to play and make some things better than what they are.....
I get crap from some people because I want to use bio diesel on pure EV .....
And believe me that some people will come up with idea to run electronics loop to the battery loop in the winter.... it is easy to get work and remove if you have to do warranty repair ( take better look at expansion bottles it will give you idea).
Being able to dump the AC unit's condenser heat back into the cabin would be great. Unfortunately it turns out according to the SM that turning on defog won't actually necessarily kick on the AC - it will disable recirc. So it may not even be possible to do the "run AC and heat at the same time" trick you can in some cars to dehumidify. Which reduces the potential benefits of connecting the motor and AC condensor coolant loop thermally to the cabin heat loop.

Which gets back to - if someone can find a good solution for a humidifier that consumes 200-300W off of 12v, that would likely be a game changer as it would permit full recirc under many more circumstances. The Bolt's existing heating system performs quite well IF you run full recirc, except in the corner case of it's so cold that it consumes more than 1 kW on Lo. This could probably be more safely achieved by MITMing the LIN bus between the HVAC controller and the heater core to put a cap on its power setting. I know there are 12v compressor freezers, not sure if someone can get a variation of this setup more suitable to dehumidification. Unfortunately it seems like all RV dehumidifiers are just huge AC units running on 120v, or tiny 25-50W single-Peltier units that don't even try to use a counterflow/recirculation approach to improve efficiency.

I love the idea you've got of turning the Bolt into a "mostly plugin" PHEV where the only ICE function is heat (which, if designed properly, is going to be highly efficient)

As a side note, have you found any location in the Bolt where someone could access outside airflow (for example, to install an HRV) easily with minimal cutting (or even better, no cutting) of body panels?

32 Degrees and the PTC heater is putting out too much heat..I turned recirc off and that helped. Still too warm and just turned it off for 15 minutes until the car called down .. so yeah it's working great.
Not surprising. Even an unmodified Bolt will have average heater power below 1 kW to maintain 72F in those conditions as long as you don't hit the defog button - which it turns out won't actually run the AC, but will (without telling the user) fully disable recirc according to the service manual. But obviously the moment you disable recirc, your heater efficiency is gonna die.
 

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Man, you showed so many screenshots, numbers, options (where some contradict each other) that I am not sure which one is right and the most current and actually what refers to what. And whatever data is there - is scarce.
I still cannot figure out how at 19 F outside you do not spend any time on battery conditioning.
In nearly every shot he's provided, he's got defrost/defog on for when he's running the Bolt's systems. Per the service manual, this kills recirc, so basically - he's saying that he's getting vastly improved performance over a Bolt that has been intentionally put into an inefficient mode. All of his published results in ambient temperatures of 20f that are "great" are completely unimpressive to someone whose Bolt does the same thing every day.

I still haven't dug up my old OBD readers to plot an average heater power for a trip, but the "vastly improved" mileage he's claiming is exactly what I get with similar cabin temperature deltas over ambient.

Only once has he posted his actual cabin temperature, instead focusing on vent temperature which is utterly meaningless. I can say from experience - vent temperatures of 80-90F mean absolutely nothing whatosever. They're not that high compared to vent temperatures I've seen in other HVAC systems, and even if they are that high, they may simply be due to insufficient airflow. I've seen building HVAC systems hit 110-120F vent temperature and fail to heat the building properly in the past. (Root cause: insufficient airflow. Oh yeah, that's why removing the cabin air filter is an EXTREMELY bad idea. I'll try to dig up the picture from 4 years ago, but that particular furnace was heating inefficiently/insufficiently and bouncing off of the thermal safety limiters because the landlord had neglected to install a filter and the blower got caked in crud. It's less important in most automotive applications since the heater core never exceeds 170-180F, but now OP is running the heater "core" 150-200F hotter than that with no filter...)

About the only significant benefit he has is the ability to cap power at 1000W with a cabin temperature below "Lo", but MITMing the LIN bus is a safer way to do that.
 

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What is the efficiency of this system? Like BTU or kWh per volume or mass of fuel.
Also, noise level?

If we could have over 80% efficient fuel (petrol, diesel, LPG) heater, it would make much more sense, but if you drop to 30% area... then it is questionable per emissions and overall cost of running. As if one kWh of this heat output costs me much more than 1 kWh recharged back to my battery, then I would be asking myself if I really need it.
To produce 3500 watts of heat it will use 0.40 liter per hour...to produce 5000 watts of heat it will use 0.65 liter per hour.... 9500 watts will use 1.2 liter per hour....pump is capable delivering 1400 liter per hour and it is variable speed....at 1500 watts it will use 0.18 liter per hour... so it is very efficient and capable to deliver 12000 watts at full demand.
 

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Discussion Starter #172
For the stubborn.. went out again...

Sets of 3 each

Highest kWh for PTC was 4.2
HighestkWh for Cars Heater 3.7


Avg fotr PTC 4.0 kWh
Avg For Cars HJeater 4.7


.03 Miles kWh increase x 60 = 18 miles gain .. thats the LEAST amount of Gain I have seen but STIL significant


PTC Heater 1000 watts ..I cannot measure its constant watts.. I do know that it idles down to 50 watts at time (when tested in house)...while keeping the temp 250 degrees
Cars Heater average 2,500 watts


33626



33627
 

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Discussion Starter #173
Not surprising. Even an unmodified Bolt will have average heater power below 1 kW to maintain 72F in those conditions as long as you don't hit the defog button - which it turns out won't actually run the AC, but will (without telling the user) fully disable recirc according to the service manual. But obviously the moment you disable recirc, your heater efficiency is gonna die.

Not true ..I specifically went out testing again because of this post..... average watts at 72 degrees WITH recirc even was 2,500 watts
 

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To produce 3500 watts of heat it will use 0.40 liter per hour...to produce 5000 watts of heat it will use 0.65 liter per hour.... 9500 watts will use 1.2 liter per hour....pump is capable delivering 1400 liter per hour and it is variable speed....at 1500 watts it will use 0.18 liter per hour... so it is very efficient and capable to deliver 12000 watts at full demand.
I have wondered - might propane be simpler for this application? (no need for a pump for example). Biggest issue with any combustion approach is you need to add some exhaust plumbing, and also potentially air intake plumbing.

Also probably some condensate plumbing for a highly efficient system - acidic condensation is a problem for high-efficiency condensing systems.

Solve the exhaust/combustion air intake challenge and you've probably also got an opportunity to use the same solution for a less effective (but also much less extreme) HRV system to maximize ability to stay on recirc without fogging.
 

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Discussion Starter #177
This was around the average watts using the heater set at 72 degrees...thats driving down the road at around 38 MPH

33632
 

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Umm Yes it is ...my last 2 runs were with the PTC heater and it was too FEAKING HOT
So because it was too hot, you went and crippled the Bolt's HVAC system by turning off recirc.

Which I've already established will IMMEDIATELY (within seconds of pushing the button) spike the heater's power way up.

Thus making comparison of the Bolt's system against your setup COMPLETELY invalid.

In your shot, you've got an ambient temperature of 43F ambient. There's no way in **** you're seeing 2400W average unless you either opened the windows or disabled recirc.

I get far lower average power consumption at only 20F ambient.
 

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To produce 3500 watts of heat it will use 0.40 liter per hour...to produce 5000 watts of heat it will use 0.65 liter per hour.... 9500 watts will use 1.2 liter per hour....pump is capable delivering 1400 liter per hour and it is variable speed....at 1500 watts it will use 0.18 liter per hour... so it is very efficient and capable to deliver 12000 watts at full demand.
If I did the math right, we are talking about 85% efficiency.
Biodiesel is about 34 MJ/l and from the above it looks like 8000 W from a liter of fuel.
Joules per s is a W, 3600 seconds per hour, and here and there - about 29 MJ in 8000 W during 60 minutes.
28.8/34.0=84.7%.

That is quite good.
If it is quiet and does not smell badly, might be a decent alternative to electric energy.
 

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Discussion Starter #180
The funny thing about the naysayer is that they offer no proof of anything ...


I happen to be the only person that has provided proof on something that isn't exactly rocket science. I max out at 1,000 watts... the Bolt max es out at 7,500 watts... so no shaat sherlock I am going to get better range.
 
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