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wasn't sure where to put this since it's not bolt related - mods feel free to move.

PG&E in california appears to be favoring BMW and Nissan over Chevy -

$10k rebate for i3 purchases: http://www.pgecurrents.com/2018/03/...electric-vehicle/?WT.pgeac=Home-pod_BMW-Mar18

+ 2 years free EVGO usage.

$3k rebate on nissan leaf: http://www.pgecurrents.com/2018/04/...ave-3000-on-new-nissan-leaf-electric-vehicle/

i don't see any similar rebates for bolts :( maybe the manufacturers are involved behind the scenes and that's where they money is coming from.
 

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wasn't sure where to put this since it's not bolt related - mods feel free to move.

PG&E in california appears to be favoring BMW and Nissan over Chevy -

$10k rebate for i3 purchases: http://www.pgecurrents.com/2018/03/...electric-vehicle/?WT.pgeac=Home-pod_BMW-Mar18

+ 2 years free EVGO usage.

$3k rebate on nissan leaf: http://www.pgecurrents.com/2018/04/...ave-3000-on-new-nissan-leaf-electric-vehicle/

i don't see any similar rebates for bolts :( maybe the manufacturers are involved behind the scenes and that's where they money is coming from.
I think I saw the same offer in New Jersey through PSE&G, but I think it was ending soon, perhaps the end of April.
 

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I recall posting about this a few months back... BMW must be desperate to dump those i3's.....
 

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BMW has to be anxious to dump these odd vehicles. They are wildly overpriced, 'corner with the eagerness of a phone booth', and are IMHO one of the ugliest vehicles on the road. Their $10k discount from BMW brings them closer to the Bolt's price tag, but they still lack anything close to the range of even the Leaf. I can't imagine anyone buying one of these, unless they are so in love with the BMW name that they are accustomed to paying way too much and getting less. The new i3s is a small improvement with - you guessed it - a higher price tag.

https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i3
 

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BMW has to be anxious to dump these odd vehicles. They are wildly overpriced, 'corner with the eagerness of a phone booth', and are IMHO one of the ugliest vehicles on the road. Their $10k discount from BMW brings them closer to the Bolt's price tag, but they still lack anything close to the range of even the Leaf. I can't imagine anyone buying one of these, unless they are so in love with the BMW name that they are accustomed to paying way too much and getting less. The new i3s is a small improvement with - you guessed it - a higher price tag.

https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i3
I test drove an i3.

Meh.
 

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BMW has to be anxious to dump these odd vehicles. They are wildly overpriced, 'corner with the eagerness of a phone booth', and are IMHO one of the ugliest vehicles on the road. Their $10k discount from BMW brings them closer to the Bolt's price tag, but they still lack anything close to the range of even the Leaf. I can't imagine anyone buying one of these, unless they are so in love with the BMW name that they are accustomed to paying way too much and getting less. The new i3s is a small improvement with - you guessed it - a higher price tag.

https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i3
Can't really compare MSRP, but need to look at what you can buy/lease them for in the real world.

Last month, i3's could be had for <$170/mo with $0 down (at one point they were ~$130/mo). Easily far less than 1/2 the cost of a current Bolt lease (locally they are ~ $435/mo with $2,500 down on an LT)

Fit, finish, ride and materials are typical BMW - a fair step above the Bolt. Someone that abhors the Bolt seats could do a lot worse than the i3 as an alternative. Handling with the tall skinnies is, umm... different (if you want to be generous). Rear door design is as poor as it gets (and a complete deal killer for my wife or we might be driving one).

If you're looking for a bargain lease, the i3 might be worth a look. If I HAD to choose an EV to lease today, the i3 would likely get the nod over the Bolt - primarily due to cost (I'm a bit of a cheapskate).
 

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FWIW, I've put some miles on an i3 and like it enough to live with one and feel good about it. We love our Bolt, but if the i3 had been available for $130 a month or even $170, we'd be driving the i3 today.

At the time we were in the market, the local BMW dealer had none in stock and none on order and didn't seem to be pushing them at all. The same ownership Chev/Cad shop right next door had three Bolts on the lot. Go figure.

However, the lease deals offered on the Bolt were a real rape-off. Does anyone really pay $2500 down and $435 a month?

In fact, I just went through the Chevrolet.com website and even after considerable searching, the lease option just wasn't currently to be found. If it's that hidden, they don't want to lease one.

jack vines
 

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However, the lease deals offered on the Bolt were a real rape-off. Does anyone really pay $2500 down and $435 a month?

In fact, I just went through the Chevrolet.com website and even after considerable searching, the lease option just wasn't currently to be found. If it's that hidden, they don't want to lease one.

jack vines
I agree. When we purchased our Bolt we did ask about the lease option out of curiosity, because when we did our research we had seen crazy deals like ~$250/month. However, the dealer gave us similar numbers to what you quoted: $5,000 down and $445/month! (And no, this wasn't advertised on their website either, it was something we had to specifically ask the finance department.)

Needless to say, we just went ahead and did the purchase instead. :D
 

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Can't really compare MSRP, but need to look at what you can buy/lease them for in the real world.

Last month, i3's could be had for <$170/mo with $0 down (at one point they were ~$130/mo). Easily far less than 1/2 the cost of a current Bolt lease (locally they are ~ $435/mo with $2,500 down on an LT)

Fit, finish, ride and materials are typical BMW - a fair step above the Bolt. Someone that abhors the Bolt seats could do a lot worse than the i3 as an alternative. Handling with the tall skinnies is, umm... different (if you want to be generous). Rear door design is as poor as it gets (and a complete deal killer for my wife or we might be driving one).

If you're looking for a bargain lease, the i3 might be worth a look. If I HAD to choose an EV to lease today, the i3 would likely get the nod over the Bolt - primarily due to cost (I'm a bit of a cheapskate).
Well, ride quality is subjective, but there’s no way I would consider the i3 ride quality to be “typical BMW”. I test drove one on an extended weekend trial, and the ride was typical of a small hatchback, very darty on the highway, and nowhere near the refined and confident and sporty handling found in nearly every other BMW. It’s a decent EV if you can get it on the cheap and don’t mind the short range and poor cargo space, but at over $50k sticker for the one I tested it’s overpriced by about 100%. The one I tested wasn’t even the top trim, which stickers around $60k fully loaded.

Anyone who thinks that Bavarians don’t have a sense of humor hasn’t read the window sticker on an i3.

Styling is also subjective, but I’ll take the boring and anonymous styling of the Bolt over the space-age clown car styling of the i3.
 
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I agree. When we purchased our Bolt we did ask about the lease option out of curiosity, because when we did our research we had seen crazy deals like ~$250/month. However, the dealer gave us similar numbers to what you quoted: $5,000 down and $445/month! (And no, this wasn't advertised on their website either, it was something we had to specifically ask the finance department.)

Needless to say, we just went ahead and did the purchase instead. :D
Yes, Bolt lease prices are all over the place, with some getting good deals and others getting sky-high quotes.

The official Chevy website lease offer is $399/mo for 36 mo, 10k miles a year, with $3499 down. Ouch!
 

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Last month, i3's could be had for <$170/mo with $0 down (at one point they were ~$130/mo).
Can you post a link to that info? I've talked with a couple of i3 leasors who can't believe those numbers. They're paying $270 a month and thinking they got the best deal.

jack vines
 

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I recall posting about this a few months back... BMW must be desperate to dump those i3's.....
I agree! If the i3 sold as BMW expected, they will not give any discounts and gain the most profits. As a fact, when any item is "hot" (huge demand), prices rise and sellers add a margin for those who really want that "item" and are willing to spend extra to get one.

Remember the "Cabbage Patch Kids" dolls? One parent went to extra expenses (traveling to London and back) just to buy one!

So BMW has begun to dump the i3 due to low sales, or a possible new model coming out. This reminds me when I was interested in buying a Ford Escape in February 2009, and all the local Ford dealers were offering the Explorer for less than the Escape (which was "hot"), and then Ford announced a remodeled Explorer a few months later. This meant that the dealers were "dumping" the old Explorers!

I didn't go for any Fords and bougth a 2009 Chevy Equinox instead (during GM's bankruptcy), which has been almost "perfect" in nine years.:)
 

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Styling is also subjective, but I’ll take the boring and anonymous styling of the Bolt over the space-age clown car styling of the i3.
Im chuckling to my self because I am of the Bavarian variety, but more then that, I also read the window sticker on an i3:laugh:

I can just imagine Angela Merkel's memo to the CEO of BMW;

Pleeze Herr Krüger, stop clowning around. Das ist serious!
 

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I agree. When we purchased our Bolt we did ask about the lease option out of curiosity, because when we did our research we had seen crazy deals like ~$250/month. However, the dealer gave us similar numbers to what you quoted: $5,000 down and $445/month! (And no, this wasn't advertised on their website either, it was something we had to specifically ask the finance department.)

Needless to say, we just went ahead and did the purchase instead. :D
I leased my Bolt for $1200 down and $209/month, 12,000 miles for 36 months.
 

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I leased my Bolt for $1200 down and $209/month, 12,000 miles for 36 months.
CA has very generous state rebates and a very competitive EV dealership market. Most of the great lease deals I’ve seen posted here are from CA.

In some states there are no incentives and little customer interest, those two factors appear to correlate with high lease costs.

It’s also apparent that GM is artificially limiting the Bolt supply, which contributes to lack of availability in some areas, and that drives up lease prices.

I don’t think leasing will be getting cheaper anytime soon, as GM will hit the 200k EV limit later this year, and the federal $7.5k incentive will start to phase out either late in 2018 or in early 2019. Losing that $7.5k would add $200+ a month on a 36 month lease.

GM may have a really hard time moving Bolts in 2019 without the federal credit.
 

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1) the federal tax credit phase out isn't immediate, it is a phase-out (gradual). The quarter that the car maker hits 200,000th vehicle nothing changes. The quarter after that, nothing changes. The quarter after that, it goes down to $3750 (instead of $7500). If GM hits the 200,000th vehicle in the last quarter of 2018, they may have problems moving Bolts in the last half of 2019. However, the new battery cells from LG are identical in size, connectors, and voltage while being cheaper and holding more capacity. So *making* Bolts might be cheaper as well in the later half of 2019.

2) "It’s also apparent that GM is artificially limiting the Bolt supply" . The limit may not be GM - it may be the battery supplier. They definitely have a contract with LG for batteries, but *I* don't know what it says. It could be that they simply can't get any more batteries and that is the issue - the "limit" might be supply-side, and not "artificial" at all.
 

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1) the federal tax credit phase out isn't immediate, it is a phase-out (gradual). The quarter that the car maker hits 200,000th vehicle nothing changes. The quarter after that, nothing changes. The quarter after that, it goes down to $3750 (instead of $7500). If GM hits the 200,000th vehicle in the last quarter of 2018, they may have problems moving Bolts in the last half of 2019. However, the new battery cells from LG are identical in size, connectors, and voltage while being cheaper and holding more capacity. So *making* Bolts might be cheaper as well in the later half of 2019.

2) "It’s also apparent that GM is artificially limiting the Bolt supply" . The limit may not be GM - it may be the battery supplier. They definitely have a contract with LG for batteries, but *I* don't know what it says. It could be that they simply can't get any more batteries and that is the issue - the "limit" might be supply-side, and not "artificial" at all.
Based on your explanation, if GM hits 200k vehicle limit in Q4 2018, won’t the federal credit be cut by 50% starting in Q2 2019, not Q3?
 

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This is pretty crazy here in my area... You could get a BMW i3 with range extender for $45,000 after negotiating. Subtract out $10,000 PG&E, $7500 Federal, $3000 Air Pollution District, $2500 State and you are looking at a $25,000 car after taxes and registration fees. Probably for people more than that because you would have to finance and wait for the subsidies to be received.
 

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a BMW i3 with range extender
This is the one part of the i3 I and most others just don't get. Buy an EV or buy a hybrid, but this hermaphrodite makes no sense at all. The only explanation is a few years back, BayEmVay did some market research with flawed questions and came to a really bad conclusion.

jack vines
 
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