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Hi Everyone,

Has anyone tried this with the Bolt?


I am in a situation where I live in a condo built in the late '70s and have a detached garage where it may be too far and challenging to run a 220v tap to a panel and connect a ChargePoint L2 CCS/SAE.

The condominium has given me the blessing as long as I hire a certified professional. I just want to make sure whatever option I choose that this is done right.

Is L1 charging an efficient option? My work is 13 miles/22 min with no charging options.

I have only used L1 charging once previously at the airport which took 2 days to fully charge the Bolt.

In the meantime, I plan to have a certified EV Electrician come out to assess and see if they can install the ChargePoint L2 CCS/SAE but I know the costs associated may not be feasible.
 

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L1 is fine for local driving such as your commute. However, there will be times when a faster backup is needed. Are there any public DCFC within a reasonable range, like withing 25 miles?

ga2500ev
 

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There is a public school a block away from me that has level 2 chargers at no cost. They are for the teachers with EV’s. I never see anyone parked there at night. I will still park in my garage and use my own level 2 because I would worry that sooner or later someone might want to break into the car after seeing it parked there every night.

The electrician may quote you an outrageous price if the detached garages o not have any power to them at all.

Is your detached garage a single unit or in a block of several garages? Assuming your garage has a lightbulb in it, is there anything else that runs on electricity in the garage(s)?
Do you see any electrical panels in or near the garage? If your garage is in a block of garages, who has the garage nearest to the panel, and would he be willing to trade?

Open the nearest panel . Do you see a single vertical row of Circuit breakers, or are they arranged in a tandem vertical row?
The reason I ask is because most sub-panels are wired for 220 even if it is only for common 110V lights and outlets. But some areas of the country are sketchy with how they try to save wire 🙄
 

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Or if you can, open the panel and post a picture of the circuit breaker(s).

What needs to be determined is If 220 V (240 V in some areas) is available in the closest panel. That means you have 2- single phase 110 V busses behind the panel face. The individual busses will not be in-phase with each other; thus the “out-of-phase “ 110 V outlets being mentioned in the Volt thread.

I am not an electrician but I am very familiar with residential electrical systems, being a general contractor. The idea regarding using 2 separate standard 110 V outlets to tap to Siamese them into a 220V outlet so you can use the level 2 charger is not a recommended install and I would not suggest trying to go that route just to save some wire. A dedicated 220 V circuit is the only “kosher “ installation that will pass your HOA requirement.
 

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There is a public school a block away from me that has level 2 chargers at no cost. They are for the teachers with EV’s. I never see anyone parked there at night. I will still park in my garage and use my own level 2 because I would worry that sooner or later someone might want to break into the car after seeing it parked there every night.
I think the strategy that ga2500ev is proposing assumes that the OP could charge at home with 120V for his normal usage and only resort to a faster top-up at a public charger when he has a specific need due to a longer trip.

I do that myself using the OEM EVSE at 240V. In the almost 3 years I've owned my Bolt I've only had a couple of occasions where I've had to supplement my charging by going to a public DC fast charger for a quick top-up before completing the charge at home overnight.
 

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Except in extreme hot or cold where conditioning will use most of what an L1 provides, L1 will give you ~50-60 miles overnight on 12A.

If there is already 120V in the garage, it is likely shared with other garages. So, I would be hesitant to use existing wiring. For one, if it is the HOA that pays for general lighting, they would certainly object to you tapping in.

A 120V 15A circuit can deliver 1.8 kW total, but only 1.44 constant load like an EV. If it is common lighting, it may be 20A circuit, but more lights would be pulling a load on the circuit.

So if there is virtually anything else on the circuit, is will overload on 12A charge setting. However, if existing wiring is connected to your unit's main panel, one light plus 12A 120V charging would likely be ok.

If you are going to run conduit and wiring to the garage, the price between 120V and 240V will be minimal difference. So go with 240V 40A and get a 30-32A EVSE. Put it under lock and key unless the garage itself is secure.

Chargepoint EVSE tends to be a bit pricey. You should be able to find 24A - 30A units around $300-400, these will charge at 5.8kW - 7.2kW, so 1-2 hours with your typical commute. You don't need to go any faster that 30A for your typical use case. I drive 130 mi daily, my 30A EVSE rarely takes more than 4 hours to replenish a day's worth of kWh. If you can save $200-300 on the EVSE, it will pay a good chunk of the cost to run a circuit to the garage.

Bolt's max AC charge rate is 32A (7.7kW).
 

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Two (humble) opinions: 1) "jazzydeff1" mentions a ChargePoint L2 CCS SAE. The SAE (which did set the J-1772 standard {including pin placement}) has never used the term "CCS". It came about by common usage. "Combined Charging Standard" (CCS) has applicability for only the 7-pin DCFC plug. It has no meaning in regard to AC Level 2 charging. {On a side note, many EV drivers think that the two additional (lower:larger) pins (#6 and #7) are for all DCFC charging. This is not the case. For DC Level 1 charging (up to 48 kW {& less than 100 amps}), Pins 1 and 2 of the CCS plug are used. The lower pins are used only for DC Level 2 charging.} 2) For overnight, at-home, charging, when it really does not matter if it is done by 3:30 am or 7:00 am, having a 30-40 amp EVSE is not a significant improvement over the 16 amps you get with the modified OEM EVSE used at 240 VAC. "Charging to full" (20 - 30% to 100% SoC) and getting a full charge (0 to 100% SoC; 60 kWh) are not the same thing. Many people get by with AC Level 1 and low amperage AC Level 2 as their sole at-home charging methods.
 

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Except in extreme hot or cold where conditioning will use most of what an L1 provides, L1 will give you ~50-60 miles overnight on 12A.

If there is already 120V in the garage, it is likely shared with other garages. So, I would be hesitant to use existing wiring. For one, if it is the HOA that pays for general lighting, they would certainly object to you tapping in.

A 120V 15A circuit can deliver 1.8 kW total, but only 1.44 constant load like an EV. If it is common lighting, it may be 20A circuit, but more lights would be pulling a load on the circuit.

So if there is virtually anything else on the circuit, is will overload on 12A charge setting. However, if existing wiring is connected to your unit's main panel, one light plus 12A 120V charging would likely be ok.

If you are going to run conduit and wiring to the garage, the price between 120V and 240V will be minimal difference. So go with 240V 40A and get a 30-32A EVSE. Put it under lock and key unless the garage itself is secure.

Chargepoint EVSE tends to be a bit pricey. You should be able to find 24A - 30A units around $300-400, these will charge at 5.8kW - 7.2kW, so 1-2 hours with your typical commute. You don't need to go any faster that 30A for your typical use case. I drive 130 mi daily, my 30A EVSE rarely takes more than 4 hours to replenish a day's worth of kWh. If you can save $200-300 on the EVSE, it will pay a good chunk of the cost to run a circuit to the garage.

Bolt's max AC charge rate is 32A (7.7kW).
One other thing to consider: One of the circuit conditions described above (that's shared with multiple lighting fixtures), might have a much lower power requirement today than it may have had a few years ago, because of conversion to much more efficient LED bulbs. This could leave enough overhead room for some 120V charging...
 

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Two (humble) opinions: 1) "jazzydeff1" mentions a ChargePoint L2 CCS SAE. The SAE (which did set the J-1772 standard {including pin placement}) has never used the term "CCS". It came about by common usage. "Combined Charging Standard" (CCS) has applicability for only the 7-pin DCFC plug. It has no meaning in regard to AC Level 2 charging. {On a side note, many EV drivers think that the two additional (lower:larger) pins (#6 and #7) are for all DCFC charging. This is not the case. For DC Level 1 charging (up to 48 kW {& less than 100 amps}), Pins 1 and 2 of the CCS plug are used. The lower pins are used only for DC Level 2 charging.} 2) For overnight, at-home, charging, when it really does not matter if it is done by 3:30 am or 7:00 am, having a 30-40 amp EVSE is not a significant improvement over the 16 amps you get with the modified OEM EVSE used at 240 VAC. "Charging to full" (20 - 30% to 100% SoC) and getting a full charge (0 to 100% SoC; 60 kWh) are not the same thing. Many people get by with AC Level 1 and low amperage AC Level 2 as their sole at-home charging methods.
Technically, pins 1 & 2 are capable of being used for low power DC charging... but does any manufacturer use them? The dealership low power DCFC uses pins 6 & 7 (it is used for troubleshooting the DCFC system, so it uses the main pins)... There are still 24 KW units out there (there used to be a bunch in California). Did they have a connector that looks like a standard J1772 without pins 6 & 7? I am pretty sure that even though they only supplied 24 KW, they used pins 6 & 7 to do it.

If DC level one does not exist out in the real world, can we stop talking about DC level 1 and DC level 2 confusing the issue for newer members?

Also, the OEM EVSE does not need to be modified to run on 240V, it only needs an adapter cord, and it only charges at 12 amps, not 16 amps when connected to 240V.

Keith
 

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I noticed the OP hasn’t returned to the conversation he started.

I would like to try to have him prepared for the estimate he will need to get from the certified electrician the condo HOA has required for him to bring a dedicated 220V line to his garage space.

At present the public charging structure is more designed as a back-up to home charging, and particularly in the PITA category. At home you plug-in and proceed with whatever else you want to do. At a public charging station one must wait. A nearby restaurant or store can provide something to do while the car charges.

I would want to get level 2 at home with a Bolt.

A Chevy Volt is very do-able on a level 1 charger since it only has a 19 kWh battery that switches to range extender with 30% left in the battery. 14 kWh is a standard re-charge for the later Volt version and 10.5 kWh for the original version.

A Bolt is another matter with an average full re-charge taking 40-66 hours on a level 1 or 6-8 hours on a level 2.

If the OP’s parking garage is void of electricity It will cost an unaffordable amount to over-head or underground a line of 220 to it.

If it does have electricity he will have to determine if there is space in the panel to add a new line. Two blank knock-outs in the panel and he is good to go. Then the price will be (X$ per lineal ft of line plus parts and circuit breaker + NEMA 14-50 outlet install.

If the panel has no room for an additional circuit breaker a new panel with higher capacity would be needed. That could call for larger wire to the panel as well. Also going to cost more than is feasible for the OP.

When I say “panel” it is technically “sub-panel”.

Edit: All residential and commercial power in the USA is AC AFAIK. DC power at public charging stations is converted from AC.

To convert AC power at home to DC will not yield faster charging.

Electricity is a lot like a liquid the way it flows. A small pipe flows a smaller amount of liquid than a larger pipe. Same concept for electricity with wire size. Only so much power can flow through a single 12 gauge (standard 20A 110v circuit). The supply wire for a 40A level 2 charger is 8 gauge times 2 ( two out-of-phase 110V leads). This stat is for copper wire, aluminum wire is thicker yet for the same rating.

Also, don’t be misled by gauge numbers the smaller the number the thicker the wire. Just like shotgun gauge.



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Sounds like you may be fine with the stock EVSE on 120V / 12A.

But if you are paying to run new wires anyway, make it a 240V / 40 Amp circuit going to a 240V outlet.

Then you can buy any 32A EVSE and have the best charging system available for your Bolt.

You want to be able to unplug the EVSE to avoid theft and take it with you on Road Trips!
 
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There is a public school a block away from me that has level 2 chargers at no cost. ... .I will still park in my garage and use my own level 2 because I would worry that sooner or later someone might want to break into the car after seeing it parked there every night.....
But at what cost do you charge at home?
Versus a nice walk to the 'Free Gas Station' a block away?

You know how some gasser owners used to say " My car runs best on Brand X gasoline." ?

I can confirm, my Spark EV runs best on Free Electrons from Free Public Charging !:cool:

It breaks my tightazz heart to plug in at home during the dead of winter for TMS reasons....:cry:
 
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If you are running new wiring, go with #6 wiring and 50A circuit like I did. 50A will allow you to charge at 40A in the future, some EVs allow charging at 40A.
 

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If you are running new wiring, go with #6 wiring and 50A circuit like I did. 50A will allow you to charge at 40A in the future, some EVs allow charging at 40A.
I hear this sort of thinking a lot. Go as fast as you can young man!

While your statement is absolutely true, OP stated a relatively short daily need. Future EVs capable of 48A charging, like Lyriq, Mach-e, etc are probably the next step for most. I wouldn't be surprised if future Bolts support 48A AC charging, GM would presumably use one set of components on all of their cars to save cost, and the batteries themselves would have no problem with higher currents if the wiring and inverter were scaled up.

So, a 60A circuit would be needed.

But, with limited range requirements, 30-32A charging would still be overkill on a car able to charge at 48A AC.

As you say, future proofing with a higher rated circuit might be a wise choice. The cost between running 40 and 60A runs to the garage won't be a whole lot different, will it?

I use 30A for my Bolt EVSE. It rarely takes more than 4 hours to top off, and I drive 130 mi/day (fairly extreme). The car typically sits for 12 hours, so 2/3 of the time it is parked in the garage, it is not charging. Not much to gain by going faster. Even if I was on TOU, I would have at least 7 hours to charge, again, 30A is more than sufficient.
 

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I hear this sort of thinking a lot. Go as fast as you can young man!

While your statement is absolutely true, OP stated a relatively short daily need. Future EVs capable of 48A charging, like Lyriq, Mach-e, etc are probably the next step for most. I wouldn't be surprised if future Bolts support 48A AC charging, GM would presumably use one set of components on all of their cars to save cost, and the batteries themselves would have no problem with higher currents if the wiring and inverter were scaled up.

So, a 60A circuit would be needed.

But, with limited range requirements, 30-32A charging would still be overkill on a car able to charge at 48A AC.

As you say, future proofing with a higher rated circuit might be a wise choice. The cost between running 40 and 60A runs to the garage won't be a whole lot different, will it?

I use 30A for my Bolt EVSE. It rarely takes more than 4 hours to top off, and I drive 1130 mi/day (fairly extreme). The car typically sits for 12 hours, so 2/3 of the time it is parked in the garage, it is not charging. Not much to gain by going faster. Even if I was on TOU, I would have at least 7 hours to charge, again, 30A is more than sufficient.
NEMA 14-50 means 50A max, so 60A on a NEMA 14-50 plug is a no go. If I want to get 48 EVSE, it would have to be hard wired. Correct?
 

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NEMA 14-50 means 50A max, so 60A on a NEMA 14-50 plug is a no go. If I want to get 48 EVSE, it would have to be hard wired. Correct?
Not necessarily. If it terminates on a sub-panel in the interim, and 14-50 as a branch circuit. If the need to go 60 arises, replace the 14-50 outlet with a hardwired EVSE direct to the sub-panel or an 18-60 outlet.
 

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NEMA 14-50 means 50A max, so 60A on a NEMA 14-50 plug is a no go. If I want to get 48 EVSE, it would have to be hard wired. Correct?
Looks like there are various styles. The question would be answered by how the 48A charger is equipped.


I could have hard wired the 40A Bosch charger I have, but it conveniently came with a nema 15-50 pigtail which just happens to be the universal plug for arc welders.


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