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Discussion Starter #1
Is this expected? My Bolt after a full charge overnight ( hilltop option enabled) shows me only 156-160 miles. During summer it showed me 230+ miles! What are other owners seeing?

That's a pretty large drop in range for temperatures that are only hovering around 55-60 f here in Northwest US.
 

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Things that kill range: use of battery power to heat the cabin, excessive speed, going up hills, rain, use of A/C (though to a way less extreme than that of heating).
 
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Things that kill range: use of battery power to heat the cabin, excessive speed, going up hills, rain, use of A/C (though to a way less extreme than that of heating).
IN general, driving in colder weather - even w/o cabin heat on and w/o physical obstacles (such as rain, snow, sleet) - kills the range. I have reported earlier, but can't remember in which thread: the difference in mi/kWh between driving @50F and 70F with all other things being equal is 20%.
 

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Dimitrij: 1) Will the Energy > Information > Energy Usage Score (which resets to a “baseline” after a full charge, including Hilltop Reserve) showing climate settings vs technique vs OAT help us learn why range is lessened? Is the baseline the same in all seasons (OAT)? 2) Should we use Hilltop Reserve less, the colder it gets, so that we maintain adequate range? 3) Should we always pre-condition the cabin while plugged in when the weather outside dips into the 30s and 40s? 4) Does battery conditioning (not cabin temp “pre-conditioning”) occur automatically as it gets colder? 5) If, in the summer, we charged (at home, in the 74 degree garage) weekly, should we increase to Sun-Tues-Thurs? Lastly, 6) On startup, will the Energy Detail screen show us if the EV conditioned the HV battery since we last shut down? Thanks to all for info/opinions/experience sharing!
 

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IN general, driving in colder weather - even w/o cabin heat on and w/o physical obstacles (such as rain, snow, sleet) - kills the range. I have reported earlier, but can't remember in which thread: the difference in mi/kWh between driving @50F and 70F with all other things being equal is 20%.
Yeah probably the heaters keeping the battery warm.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Things that kill range: use of battery power to heat the cabin, excessive speed, going up hills, rain, use of A/C (though to a way less extreme than that of heating).
Things that kill range: use of battery power to heat the cabin, excessive speed, going up hills, rain, use of A/C (though to a way less extreme than that of heating).
To be clear I was talking about the range my Bolt shows with the cable plugged in and it tells me it's fully charged. This is the vehicle parked in my garage before I've driven it out taken it out to drive. I can understand 20% difference in range but more than 50% drop is very concerning for me.

We are in the rainy Northwest parts of the country so it's going to be rainy but I expect a car sitting in the garage to charge to charge to full since nothing is turned on when charging.
 

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Unfortunately this is the case with all EVs.

My 2014 Volt will give me an actual 50 miles of range in mild temperatures. Mix of city and highway driving, no climate control.

In winter, I will get half of that, 25 miles, driving the same roads for my commute. That's with using the heat moderately (not toasty hot), supplementing with heated seats.

My car is EPA rated at 38 miles.
 

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To be clear I was talking about the range my Bolt shows with the cable plugged in and it tells me it's fully charged. This is the vehicle parked in my garage before I've driven it out taken it out to drive. I can understand 20% difference in range but more than 50% drop is very concerning for me.

We are in the rainy Northwest parts of the country so it's going to be rainy but I expect a car sitting in the garage to charge to charge to full since nothing is turned on when charging.
That's only the GOM as some like to call it. The Guess-O-Meter. The battery is fully charged, your actual range is based on how many kwh are in the battery.

If you monitor kwh used, you will see that there is no difference between summer and winter driving in terms of how much energy gets used out of the pack. It's just that more of that energy ends up going towards warming the battery and the cabin in the winter.
 

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My 2015 Leaf went through 3 winters showing range at ~70% of summer values here in midcoast Maine. The battery temperature was an almost insignificant (~6%) effect so I assume that most of the causes are similar to those that effect ICE cars such as air and Lubricant viscosity and lower tire pressure. 70% of 250 = 175 range. Since I don't travel as much in winter that doesn't seem like much of a problem at least at this latitude.
 

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That agrees with my experience. In mild Portland winter, I got around 150 miles on the GoM.

You might notice that anytime you turn the cabin heat on, the GoM estimate will immediately drop by several miles, and that the bar-graph that scores your usage immediately drops from 0 (heat off) to -5.
 

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If you monitor kwh used, you will see that there is no difference between summer and winter driving in terms of how much energy gets used out of the pack.
I did not think this was true. I thought that a fully-filled battery will “give up” MORE of its electrons if warm (FEWER if it is very cold). Therefore, use a few electrons to heat the battery itself (conditioning) to get more (than you “spent”) back out of the battery. If by riding in a cold, cold car we could go just as far, there would be no need to heat the cells. “Conditioning” the battery is passive and does not occur in a heated garage. “Preconditioning” the cabin saves range by using household electrons rather than battery electrons to warm it up. Please correct me if I am misinformed.
 

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...I can understand 20% difference in range but more than 50% drop is very concerning for me.
I think it's more accurate to describe it in terms of...
"During summer I was seeing 30% greater than the 238 EPA range."
"During winter I was seeing 30% less than the 238 EPA range."

During the two summers and two winters I owned the Volt the above statements described the seasonal range differential almost perfectly.

Of course severe winter conditions (driving snow, high headwinds, dark, cold, etc..) where you're forced to keep cabin heat/defrost, wipers, headlights, etc... on high for extended periods drags EV range down even further.
I can recall on a handful of occasions getting less than 22 EV mi out of my Volt (38mi EPA EV range) before the ICE kicked in during severe conditions where I was getting 50EV miles out of the Volt on the same commute during the summer.

I'm guessing 150+ range is about as low as the Bolt will drop just due to cold temps, any more range loss will be due to pushing through severe weather conditions.
 

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Drive 130-150 miles every day. Lowest GOM is 170~. It gets to -10 or so as the worst. 2 city commutes each 20 minutes. 23 min of interstate at 75 in winter. It still gets me through the first winter. Remember ice cars take a hit too, most people don't realize that. Not quite as much but they all do.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
I'm try with slightly more air in the tires but I'm still pretty sad to hear that range can do by so much when the temp drops. Winter has even reached it's peak but range had dropped by 50% .

At this rate, I wonder if I'm going to end up in Nissan leaf territory before the end of winter :(
 

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Don't forget, this affects ALL EVs. Leaf will end up in Gen 2 Volt territory, and Gen 2 Volt will end up in Outlander PHEV territory, and Outlander PHEV will end up in PIP territory, and PIP will end up in....

Honestly, you should've done a little research about EV ownership concerns. You would've ran into the cold weather issue almost immediately. A good number to use for worse case is 1/3 of the EPA range will be lost in the winter. So for 238 miles, expect 160 miles of range. If you're really pessimistic and want worse case, half that EPA estimate. This is what I did before trading up from my Volt and for 119 miles, I'm still within my worse daily commute range (100 miles).
 

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The range you first see as described in your post is based upon conditions from your previous drive. In my case from the day before. So if you were driving in an inefficient manner or it was very cold and you had extra heat on, the range the following morning was based on that information.

I drive the same route everyday. On Monday I had a good day with my normal range being 160 mile commute and 45 miles left upon my return.

My range the next morning showed around 200 miles to start...but the wind was blowing heavy and it was cold. The same trip that day (Tuesday) only yielded a 20 mile reserve at the end of the day. I had lost 20 miles of range due to wind on the highway which was significant. I did not adjust my speed to increase range.

The next morning (Wednesday) the car only showed a charge of 170 miles..not the 200 I would normally expect. This is because the computer based its calculations on the previous drive which in my case was Tuesday afternoon.

However the drive on Wednesday was without wind just like on Monday. You would expect to only have 10 miles of reserve (160 mile commute - 170 starting range = 10 miles). But when I returned home I had 40 miles left again.

And sure enough the next morning (Thursday) I had 200 miles show up as my available miles.

The computer cannot predict the current weather or any future drive. It only works on past data.

The key is to look on the energy information screen as to how many kilowatts you are using as opposed to your current mileage. I generally average 4 miles per kw at 75 MPH. So 10 kw's should get me 40 miles of range. 40 kw's should get me 160 miles of range. You should have between 10 to 20 kw left or in my case with hilltop reserve on, I should have around 14 kw left as the battery should only charge to around 54 kw.

To me, this is a true way of calculating the correct range in real time as opposed to previous driving conditions.

Hope this helps.
 

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I'm try with slightly more air in the tires but I'm still pretty sad to hear that range can do by so much when the temp drops. Winter has even reached it's peak but range had dropped by 50% .

At this rate, I wonder if I'm going to end up in Nissan leaf territory before the end of winter :(
Don't be sad 0:) you are still an early adopter in the EV world. Just try to play with your tire pressure, hypermiling or whatever you are wiling to do to help the range. If you have a relatively short, compare to estimated range, daily trip, charge every night. I know, easy for me to say sitting here in San Diego, but you can and will adopt to it.

https://www.fleetcarma.com/extend-electric-vehicle-range-winter/
 

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I think it's more accurate to describe it in terms of...
"During summer I was seeing 30% greater than the 238 EPA range."
"During winter I was seeing 30% less than the 238 EPA range."

During the two summers and two winters I owned the Volt the above statements described the seasonal range differential almost perfectly.
I would say, during summer I could push the range almost 20% above EPA, and during winter it drops by more than 30%.

I remember forum conversations a while ago where people said 180 mi mark in the winter was the worst the range could possibly drop to, well, no. If it's 10F outside, and you do not travel on an absolutely flat road at stable 45 mph with 1 person and no air heating in the cabin, be prepared for the range to be HALF of what it was in optimal conditions.
 
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