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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I’m going to record this next time I charge at an EA charging station, for proof. So, I began the charge with about 68 miles left and ended with 237. The session took just under 50 minutes. I was really impressed. Percentage wise, it went from 19% to 80%. I wanted to post this because I always see people online complaining about the Bolts charging speeds. To me, this is definitely adequate.

2020 Bolt Premier
 

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So that's 61% in 49 minutes. That looks to be the best case charging scenario that you can ever expect from Bolt using a charger that can do 150A+ with the battery in optimal temperature range.

The government-operated public DCFC I use around my country automatically cuts off after 40 minutes, so I have lots of charging sessions that lasted exactly that long. Best results are around 50% with 200A chargers, going from 10~20% to 60~70%, which is more or less in line with your experience given the 10 shorter minutes.
 

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I don't DCFC, the car is a commuter car in my opinion, however, I think the complaint for those that do which I've read over and over again is that's **** slow. I'm personally impressed, would love to see you try that in Wisconsin in January and see how you spin that post.
 

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I’m going to record this next time I charge at an EA charging station, for proof. So, I began the charge with about 68 miles left and ended with 237. The session took just under 50 minutes. I was really impressed. Percentage wise, it went from 19% to 80%. I wanted to post this because I always see people online complaining about the Bolts charging speeds. To me, this is definitely adequate.

2020 Bolt Premier
It would have charged slightly faster if he charged from 5% to 66% (same amount gained) instead of 19% to 80%. Even with the improved slow taper vs the sharp step downs in charge rate in the pre-2020, the 2020's still charge faster at below 50% SOC than they do above 50% so the lower your SOC when you start charging, the faster it charges.

To the OP:

To gain 179 miles on 61% charge gained (around 40ish KW) you must be getting 4.4 to 4.5 miles per kWh... you will not be getting that on a highway road trip. You will be getting somewhere between 3.1 and 3.5 miles per kWh depending on what speed you are running. So on a road trip that 49 min of charging would have given you between 125 and 140 miles of range. When your average Tesla driver gets fed up with how slow their Tesla is charging when it ramps down to our peak charging rate of 55 KW at 75% SOC and leaves, that shows the amount the Bolt is behind in the charging game. A Model 3 on a V3 Supercharger can gain 180 miles (EPA rated miles, closer to 155 miles at highway speeds) in 15 min vs the 2020 Bolt gaining 179 miles in 49 min when driving at very efficient speeds, or as stated above 140 miles max in real world highway driving...

In real world testing by MotorTrend, the model 3 on a V3 Supercharger can go from 5% to 90% in 46 min... a gain of aprox 220 miles (highway speed miles, 255 miles of EPA range) in 46 min. Looking at your charge, if you had started from a lower SOC you may have gained 180 miles in 45 min, but once again that is at very efficient driving speeds... still a half hour longer than the Tesla Model 3 for the same amount a range gained.

In the real world on the highway the Tesla 3 on V3 can gain aprox 155 miles in 15 min and the 2020 Bolt can gain at best 140 miles in 45 min. Hopefully this is resolved in the new BEV 3 cars.

Later,

Keith

PS: Not a Bolt hater, I road trip my 2017 Bolt cross country a few times a year... this is probably the reason I want faster charging :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I’m glad to hear you’ve had similar experiences. I love my Bolt. I get a little irritated when I see people talk about how “slow” that charging speed is.
It was definitely perfect conditions. Slightly cloudy and 76 degrees Fahrenheit.
So that's 61% in 49 minutes. That looks to be the best case charging scenario that you can ever expect from Bolt using a charger that can do 150A+ with the battery in optimal temperature range.

The government-operated public DCFC I use around my country automatically cuts off after 40 minutes, so I have lots of charging sessions that lasted exactly that long. Best results are around 50% with 200A chargers, going from 10~20% to 60~70%, which is more or less in line with your experience given the 10 shorter minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I don't DCFC, the car is a commuter car in my opinion, however, I think the complaint for those that do which I've read over and over again is that's **** slow. I'm personally impressed, would love to see you try that in Wisconsin in January and see how you spin that post.
Oh I’m sure it charges a bit slower in colder weather. I live in Colorado Springs. Well see how it plays out this winter. All I’m saying, is I find the charging to be very reasonable.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I’m glad to hear you’ve had similar experiences. I love my Bolt. I get a little irritated when I see people talk about how “slow” that charging speed is.
It was definitely perfect conditions. Slightly cloudy and 76 degrees Fahrenheit.
It would have charged slightly faster if he charged from 5% to 66% (same amount gained) instead of 19% to 80%. Even with the improved slow taper vs the sharp step downs in charge rate in the pre-2020, the 2020's still charge faster at below 50% SOC than they do above 50% so the lower your SOC when you start charging, the faster it charges.

To the OP:

To gain 179 miles on 61% charge gained (around 40ish KW) you must be getting 4.4 to 4.5 miles per kWh... you will not be getting that on a highway road trip. You will be getting somewhere between 3.1 and 3.5 miles per kWh depending on what speed you are running. So on a road trip that 49 min of charging would have given you between 125 and 140 miles of range. When your average Tesla driver gets fed up with how slow their Tesla is charging when it ramps down to our peak charging rate of 55 KW at 75% SOC and leaves, that shows the amount the Bolt is behind in the charging game. A Model 3 on a V3 Supercharger can gain 180 miles (EPA rated miles, closer to 155 miles at highway speeds) in 15 min vs the 2020 Bolt gaining 179 miles in 49 min when driving at very efficient speeds, or as stated above 140 miles max in real world highway driving...

In real world testing by MotorTrend, the model 3 on a V3 Supercharger can go from 5% to 90% in 46 min... a gain of aprox 220 miles (highway speed miles, 255 miles of EPA range) in 46 min. Looking at your charge, if you had started from a lower SOC you may have gained 180 miles in 45 min, but once again that is at very efficient driving speeds... still a half hour longer than the Tesla Model 3 for the same amount a range gained.

In the real world on the highway the Tesla 3 on V3 can gain aprox 155 miles in 15 min and the 2020 Bolt can gain at best 140 miles in 45 min. Hopefully this is resolved in the new BEV 3 cars.

Later,

Keith

PS: Not a Bolt hater, I road trip my 2017 Bolt cross country a few times a year... this is probably the reason I want faster charging :)
That’s fair. I suppose a Tesla owner would scoff looking at our Bolts charging capability. I do drive very efficiently; I never exceed 65 mph, even on the highway. In the nearly 3k miles I’ve put on my Bolt, I’m averaging 4.5 miles per kWh. It’s more like an efficiency game to me, every time I take a drive.
 

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I do drive very efficiently; I never exceed 65 mph, even on the highway. In the nearly 3k miles I’ve put on my Bolt, I’m averaging 4.5 miles per kWh. It’s more like an efficiency game to me, every time I take a drive.
The expressways around where I live generally have 100 km/h (62 mph) speed limit. I tend to set the cruise control to that number, which is actually 95 km/h (59 mph) according to the GPS, and drive on the outermost lane. Most cars just pass by without a fuss.

The efficiency is at least 7 km/kWh (4.35 mi/kWh) unless the temperatures drop below 10C (50F). On a warm day anywhere between 7.5 and 8 km/kWh (4.66 - 4.97 mi/kWh) are doable. Related thread:
 

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I think that miles added per minute, hour, etc. is both the best and worst way to calculate charging speed. In order for it to be actually useful, it needs to be based on a standard (EPA, WLTP, etc.). Even more importantly, it needs to be based on the average charging speed, not the peak rate.

For example, the Bolt EV with a 4 mi/kWh EPA efficiency rating charges at a peak rate of 220 mi/hr, but charging to 80% will drop that average down to 160 mi/hr. However, DC fast charging is most relevant for freeway speed driving, where the Bolt EV's efficiency is more likely to be about 3.5 mi/kWh, resulting in a peak rate of ~190 mi/hr and average rate of ~140 mi/hr.
 

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I think that miles added per minute, hour, etc. is both the best and worst way to calculate charging speed. In order for it to be actually useful, it needs to be based on a standard (EPA, WLTP, etc.). Even more importantly, it needs to be based on the average charging speed, not the peak rate.

For example, the Bolt EV with a 4 mi/kWh EPA efficiency rating charges at a peak rate of 220 mi/hr, but charging to 80% will drop that average down to 160 mi/hr. However, DC fast charging is most relevant for freeway speed driving, where the Bolt EV's efficiency is more likely to be about 3.5 mi/kWh, resulting in a peak rate of ~190 mi/hr and average rate of ~140 mi/hr.
Agreed, in addition, if the rate is based on a default factory metric that just divides the kWh added, by the EPA estimate, it may be inaccurate. If recent efficiency values are not being used to calculate the true estimated miles of added charge then it's most likely optimistic, especially in a Tesla. If I charge my Model 3 to full prior to a road trip in the summer, or winter, it's always the same range number even though the delta T is 80F.

I think the main screen range number on Tesla is done that way. If you rely on that being accurate, you could be in for a world of hurt. Not only is the EPA range of a Tesla more difficult to achieve than most other BEV's, but anything less than ideal conditions will also disappoint.

This is one of the nits I have with Tesla's trip routing that does not take into consideration grade changes or weather. It shouldn't be too difficult to pull live weather data into the algorithm. My Leaf trip routing would calculate grade changes so I know it can't be too difficult.

There is however another "efficiency/consumption" screen you can open that is much more reliable and accurate which does use real time data and almost always is more pessimistic than the main screen range. It's a graphical representation of how well you are doing compared to what the car calculated you should be doing. The main screen range and the consumption graph don't seem to be in sync.
 

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So on a road trip that 49 min of charging would have given you between 125 and 140 miles of range.
Yep, in real world terms you drive for 2 hours and charge for 45-50 minutes. I don't mind stopping and stretching my legs every 2 hours but a 45 minute stretch is excessive. You have to understand and accept the limitations of the Bolt if you're going to do a road trip. I don't mind doing that a few times a year because I like to drive my Bolt. My wife, not so much. She won't be satisfied until we can charge for 10 minutes and drive for 2 hours.
Tesla is better in that regard but still not quite there yet. V3 superchargers are rare in my road trip areas.
The Bolt is a good car and is the best bang for the buck out there. I'm not sure it's worth the extra $$$ for a Tesla when it still won't give me exactly what I (or my wife?) want.
I'm pulling for GM's Ultium battery and maybe the anticipated Tesla battery day announcement.
 

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Yep, in real world terms you drive for 2 hours and charge for 45-50 minutes. I don't mind stopping and stretching my legs every 2 hours but a 45 minute stretch is excessive. You have to understand and accept the limitations of the Bolt if you're going to do a road trip. I don't mind doing that a few times a year because I like to drive my Bolt. My wife, not so much. She won't be satisfied until we can charge for 10 minutes and drive for 2 hours.
Tesla is better in that regard but still not quite there yet. V3 superchargers are rare in my road trip areas.
The Bolt is a good car and is the best bang for the buck out there. I'm not sure it's worth the extra $$$ for a Tesla when it still won't give me exactly what I (or my wife?) want.
I'm pulling for GM's Ultium battery and maybe the anticipated Tesla battery day announcement.
Lucky for me, my wife is fine with longer stops. Sometimes if we are doing a quick 25 min or less stop my wife will actually be the hold up, because after charging for 20 min is when she decides she needs to wander into Walmart to use the restroom... so we end up charging up to way past when I planned on leaving, and then arrive at the next stop high in the SOC range... <sigh>

Keith
 

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I don't mind one long stop on an 8+ hour trip, but I also don't want to have to watch the clock during that longer stop (i.e., I want the stop to take as long as it takes regardless of the charging session length, charging speed, etc.). Also, while I will occasionally want to make a quick bathroom stop in addition, I sometimes also want to be able to drive for as much as 4 hours in a sitting.

For my personal reference, I can go back to how I would take my 500 mile trips in my Chevy Volt. Over the course of 8 hours of driving, I would make one 15 minute fuel and bathroom break, one 45 minute meal break, and possibly a third 5 minute bathroom break (typically a rest area).

Currently, no EV available for purchase can do that. The Model 3 LR might come the closest (it still falls short), and it's hard to justify that much of an additional expense for a car that still doesn't fully meet those expectations. The only EV on the horizon that can is the Lightyear One ($150,000.... umm, no).

I'm also holding out hope for GM's Ultium battery line, but unfortunately, GM doesn't seem to have as much interest in small passenger cars. Though I never thought I'd hear myself say this, I might be considering a next generation Honda EV because they will be licensing their EV tech from GM. That might be the only way to access GM's EV tech in a small to midsize sedan for the foreseeable future.
 

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19% to 80% in 47 min. That's equivalent to 47kw average. Normal and above average. The temperature must be warm so that the car had fair amount of time above 50kw from 19% to 55%, before got tapered down to 36kw. That kind of charging rate makes road trips practical.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

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If I did the math right, you were getting about 185 mph for the 47 minutes you charged which is decent but practical might be a bit subjective. You're definitely adding miles faster than you are shedding though but you may be content with the rate you got (you have to admit though, you are describing the best possible conditions which are rarely the case) because that's all you've known.
 

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Currently, no EV available for purchase can do that. The Model 3 LR might come the closest (it still falls short), and it's hard to justify that much of an additional expense for a car that still doesn't fully meet those expectations.
That's exactly my dilemma. I'd hate to spend $50K on a car that causes me to compromise, only to find out a year or so later that something better is available.
 

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19% to 80% in 47 min. That's equivalent to 47kw average. Normal and above average. The temperature must be warm so that the car had fair amount of time above 50kw from 19% to 55%, before got tapered down to 36kw. That kind of charging rate makes road trips practical.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
You did the math for a 2017-2019, the OP has a 2020.
19% to 80% = 61%
0.61 X 66 kWh = 40.26 kWh
(40.26 / 49) x 60 = 49.29 KW charging speed on average over his charging session... also, not sure where you got 47 min from since the OP said it took 49 min :D

I would say that this charging speed makes road trips marginal at best, but do-able... and this is coming from someone who does multiple 1000+ mile road trips per year.

Keith
 

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I don't mind one long stop on an 8+ hour trip, but I also don't want to have to watch the clock during that longer stop (i.e., I want the stop to take as long as it takes regardless of the charging session length, charging speed, etc.). Also, while I will occasionally want to make a quick bathroom stop in addition, I sometimes also want to be able to drive for as much as 4 hours in a sitting.

For my personal reference, I can go back to how I would take my 500 mile trips in my Chevy Volt. Over the course of 8 hours of driving, I would make one 15 minute fuel and bathroom break, one 45 minute meal break, and possibly a third 5 minute bathroom break (typically a rest area).

Currently, no EV available for purchase can do that. The Model 3 LR might come the closest (it still falls short), and it's hard to justify that much of an additional expense for a car that still doesn't fully meet those expectations. The only EV on the horizon that can is the Lightyear One ($150,000.... umm, no).

I'm also holding out hope for GM's Ultium battery line, but unfortunately, GM doesn't seem to have as much interest in small passenger cars. Though I never thought I'd hear myself say this, I might be considering a next generation Honda EV because they will be licensing their EV tech from GM. That might be the only way to access GM's EV tech in a small to midsize sedan for the foreseeable future.
Start off full in the Model 3, drive 250 miles, take 15 min break gaining 130 miles of range on a V2 (not V3) supercharger. Drive another 130 miles, stop for meal break of 45 min... leave at end of meal with 80% SOC and drive the rest of the way to your destination with a restroom break at a rest stop... arrive at your destination with 80 miles to spare.

Now, if you tell me that Supercharger spacing will not allow your trip to play out like this I will take your word for it... I don't know where you start from and where you end your journey, but a Tesla 3 LR going from Los Angeles to Redding only needs 50 min of charging (one 7 min, one 25 min, and a final 18 min charge) in a 550 mile journey.... less than the 65 min of stopping you used to do in your Volt. If you really want a 45 min break for a meal, you can swap times around and charge for 6 min at the first stop, and then go all the way to 95% at your second stop in 44 min, and then do a final splash and dash 9 min stop towards the end, totaling 59 min. You still get your long break that way and the trip is still shorter than in your Volt.

Keith
 

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Start off full in the Model 3, drive 250 miles, take 15 min break gaining 130 miles of range on a V2 (not V3) supercharger. Drive another 130 miles, stop for meal break of 45 min... leave at end of meal with 80% SOC and drive the rest of the way to your destination with a restroom break at a rest stop... arrive at your destination with 80 miles to spare.

Now, if you tell me that Supercharger spacing will not allow your trip to play out like this I will take your word for it... I don't know where you start from and where you end your journey, but a Tesla 3 LR going from Los Angeles to Redding only needs 50 min of charging (one 7 min, one 25 min, and a final 18 min charge) in a 550 mile journey.... less than the 65 min of stopping you used to do in your Volt. If you really want a 45 min break for a meal, you can swap times around and charge for 6 min at the first stop, and then go all the way to 95% at your second stop in 44 min, and then do a final splash and dash 9 min stop towards the end, totaling 59 min. You still get your long break that way and the trip is still shorter than in your Volt.

Keith
Again, the Model 3 LR comes close, but it's still lacking the same flexibility. Yes, with proper planning, I can make the trip in a similar amount of time as I spend in my Volt; however, in order to match the Volt's trip speed, I'd have to make more shorter stops. The biggest issues with the Model 3 are that I'd be very limited in terms stopping locations, routes, time spent stopped, and leg lengths.

For example, many trips in my Volt were only one 45 minute stop where I fueled, used the bathroom, and ate. Northbound or southbound I-5, that stop was typically Santa Nella. But I'd also often take Highway 101 instead, and so my only stop might be Morgan Hill, Gilroy, King City, etc. Now it's possible that the Model 3 LR could make the trip with a single stop and two four-hour driving legs, but I'd be worried about driving 270 to 280 miles at freeway speeds before my first stop. And of course, that's the most straightforward of my trips. Driving to Susanville from Southern California in 9 hours just wouldn't be possible like it was in my Volt.

Of course, I'm an odd duck. I still maintain that range is by far the most important factor in flexibility and reducing the concessions required from owning an EV. I know a lot of people are clamoring for 150 kW or even 350 kW charging, but the truth is, I actually don't mind the Bolt EV's 55 kW charging rate. All I ask is that it be paired with 400+ miles of actual freeway speed driving range, and I'd be satisfied. I'm not likely to drive more than 600 to 700 miles in any given day, and starting with a 400 mile range makes that super easy.
 

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You said you can do the SoCal to Susanville trip in 9 hours in the Volt... but it looks like that is just the driving time strait through without breaks. Going from Los Angeles to Susanville in a Volt would take about 9 hours plus two 15 min breaks to stretch, and at least one long 45 min stop for a meal, so 10 HR 15 min total. In the Bolt it should take you around 13 hours with 4 charging stops (one for 83 min, the next for 36 min the one after that 37 min and the final charge for 29 min. You can take your meal break, and do all of your bio break / stretching during your charging sessions... and in the Model 3 it would take 10 hours including two medium length charging stops of 31 min and 21 min.

Since you always have a long break for a meal on long trips, you could stretch the 31 min stop out by over-charging beyond what you need to somewhere between 95% and 100% SOC to get a 45 min charge, that would make your second charge only 15 min, and you could chose a non-charging 15 min first rest stop before your meal break for biological needs and leg stretch, no need for a marathon run before taking a break... Doing it that way (not in the efficient charging SOC zone of the battery) the trip time in the Tesla would be extended by 20 min... making it almost exactly the same as doing the trip in your Volt.

I dislike Tesla's walled garden approach to their charging network as much as you do... but I think you let it cloud your judgment on just how much better a Model 3 LR is for road trips than the Bolt is... if you are a person who likes to take breaks when driving there is negligible difference between a Model 3 LR charging on V2 Superchargers and an ICE car.

IF you are doing a speed run with no breaks other than a quick whiz when filling up with gas, then the Volt would be slightly faster than the Model 3 LR... but you always framed your travel choices with breaks and meals... so unless you are going to flip the script to make the Volt win, you have to eventually admit that the Model 3 LR would be just as good travel time wise for your regular travel routes as the Volt was.

As a Bolt owner I like your YouTube content... but as a person who is not a Tesla fanboy... just a realist... I can still see your anti-Tesla mindset in any video where you mention them.

Later,

Keith
 
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