Chevy Bolt EV Forum banner

21 - 40 of 74 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Of course, I'm an odd duck. I still maintain that range is by far the most important factor in flexibility and reducing the concessions required from owning an EV. I know a lot of people are clamoring for 150 kW or even 350 kW charging, but the truth is, I actually don't mind the Bolt EV's 55 kW charging rate. All I ask is that it be paired with 400+ miles of actual freeway speed driving range, and I'd be satisfied. I'm not likely to drive more than 600 to 700 miles in any given day, and starting with a 400 mile range makes that super easy.
I agree. A highway range of 400 miles is a total gamechanger. My road trip habits are similar to yours in that I go long distances with minimal stops. I've been known to do Orlando-Birmingham (570 miles) in a single stop and New Orleans-Birmingham (365 miles) nonstop. I will likely take the Bolt on a roadtrip for the experience some time but I'm not terribly interested in a long charging stop every two hours or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
I agree. A highway range of 400 miles is a total gamechanger. My road trip habits are similar to yours in that I go long distances with minimal stops. I've been known to do Orlando-Birmingham (570 miles) in a single stop and New Orleans-Birmingham (365 miles) nonstop. I will likely take the Bolt on a roadtrip for the experience some time but I'm not terribly interested in a long charging stop every two hours or so.

The good news with the Bolt EV is you can do about 5 hours of driving with a single 45 minute stop (everything has to align).

The biggest issue with EVs right now is that your longest leg basically has to be your first leg, which is the opposite of my natural preference. Ironically, my first bathroom stop is often in the first 100 miles of driving, and that's a useless stop in an EV. What are you going to do in 5 minutes at the upper third of your battery? Unfortunately, I've now gotten into the habit of "holding it" for about an hour or so before my first stop (though I don't always).

However, after that, I actually prefer longer legs. I often drive about halfway through my long trips (500 to 600 miles) before wanting a meal stop (about 4 hours in), but oddly, after that, I'm usually good for another 3 to 4 hours of straight driving. That's basically not possible unless you are leaving your meal stop with 300+ miles of range.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
You said you can do the SoCal to Susanville trip in 9 hours in the Volt... but it looks like that is just the driving time strait through without breaks. Going from Los Angeles to Susanville in a Volt would take about 9 hours plus two 15 min breaks to stretch, and at least one long 45 min stop for a meal, so 10 HR 15 min total. In the Bolt it should take you around 13 hours with 4 charging stops (one for 83 min, the next for 36 min the one after that 37 min and the final charge for 29 min. You can take your meal break, and do all of your bio break / stretching during your charging sessions... and in the Model 3 it would take 10 hours including two medium length charging stops of 31 min and 21 min.

Since you always have a long break for a meal on long trips, you could stretch the 31 min stop out by over-charging beyond what you need to somewhere between 95% and 100% SOC to get a 45 min charge, that would make your second charge only 15 min, and you could chose a non-charging 15 min first rest stop before your meal break for biological needs and leg stretch, no need for a marathon run before taking a break... Doing it that way (not in the efficient charging SOC zone of the battery) the trip time in the Tesla would be extended by 20 min... making it almost exactly the same as doing the trip in your Volt.

I dislike Tesla's walled garden approach to their charging network as much as you do... but I think you let it cloud your judgment on just how much better a Model 3 LR is for road trips than the Bolt is... if you are a person who likes to take breaks when driving there is negligible difference between a Model 3 LR charging on V2 Superchargers and an ICE car.

IF you are doing a speed run with no breaks other than a quick whiz when filling up with gas, then the Volt would be slightly faster than the Model 3 LR... but you always framed your travel choices with breaks and meals... so unless you are going to flip the script to make the Volt win, you have to eventually admit that the Model 3 LR would be just as good travel time wise for your regular travel routes as the Volt was.

As a Bolt owner I like your YouTube content... but as a person who is not a Tesla fanboy... just a realist... I can still see your anti-Tesla mindset in any video where you mention them.

Later,

Keith
Yes, that 9 hours is assuming only one fueling stop (it's still only an average driving speed of about 65 mph in the Volt). Essentially, if I need to get there in time to check into a motel room, set up camp, etc. Those simply aren't issues when I'm just heading to my property in Northern California. Again, I do prefer to make a sit-down meal stop, but it's also about the flexibility.

Yes, the trip to Susanville is longer in my Bolt EV, so I have to make concessions. It doesn't typically take as long as you're suggesting, though it can depending on conditions and my final destination (it took me about 14 hours once when driving into a 25 mph headwind for 300+ miles of the trip). However, even when I had to rely on 100 A and 125 A chargers, I could typically make it to Susanville in about 13 hours. With the current infrastructure, it's about 12 hours.

Yes, the Model 3 LR could make the trip faster than the Bolt EV, but it would still be slower than the Volt (even with a meal stop). And the trip in a Model 3 would be much more constraining than it would in the Volt in terms of where, when, and how long I'd need to stop. The last time I made that trip in the Volt, it took under 10 hours with a meal stop, and my dad had to drive out to meet me at the Susanville Walmart at 11:30 pm so he could guide me back to where we were camping. In a Model 3 LR, I'd be getting in after midnight. That 30+ minutes is a big deal sometimes.

The Bolt EV also gets more of a pass beyond just the price for the concessions I have to make during those road trips because it is more functional than either the Model 3 or the Volt would be after arrival. The short wheelbase, additional ground clearance, better approach and departure angles, and additional cargo capacity make it far more functional for that purpose. I took the Volt down a Jeep trail once just to see how it would fare. I wouldn't do that again in the Volt, but I'd have no reservations driving that trail in the Bolt EV.

So the crux of the issue here isn't whether the Model 3 LR is better at long-range road trips than the Bolt EV; it's whether the Model 3 LR is enough better to justify an additional $10,000 over the Bolt EV. Because what I'm really asking it to do is replace the Volt (not the Bolt EV), so it can't simply be incrementally better than the Bolt EV. It must be as good as the car it's replacing. Otherwise, what's the point? And maybe that's the key disagreement here: You think the Model 3 LR is nearly as capable as the Volt, and I don't think it's that close.

Yes, I'm not a fan of how Tesla is dividing the EV community, maintaining walled gardens, attempting to stifle sales of other EVs, attacking other automakers' EV efforts, etc. I've also made it clear that I won't consider buying a Tesla unless they do two things: Provide a CCS option in North America and open their Supercharger Network to all EV owners. And because I've basically just said that I'd never consider buying a Tesla (ha!), it leaves me free to look at their vehicles in an objective and unbiased light (i.e., it doesn't really matter how good or bad they are... it's irrelevant to me). They have their strengths, and they have their weaknesses. The Model 3 LR is a great city car that can travel quickly on highways and freeways, but for the price, I, personally, would expect a lot more out of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,551 Posts
...I tend to set the cruise control to that number, which is actually 95 km/h (59 mph) according to the GPS, and drive on the outermost lane.
Apropos of nothing in particular, I hate the use of "inner" and "outer" to describe lanes. The terms mean the opposite thing to Americans vs. Brits, and those folks tend to stick with their original conception of the meaning even when they're in someone else's territory. This leads to a lot of ambiguity and confusion in my experience. So I prefer to use the term "leftmost" or "rightmost".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
Long trips with the Bolt would be much nicer if the fast chargers weren't almost all in the middle malls and other not-so-nice spots. I can live with 50kW charging and spending the extra time on most of my trips. What I hate is that so much of that time is spent in Walmart parking lots. So for me, 150kW charging would be a real game changer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
Apropos of nothing in particular, I hate the use of "inner" and "outer" to describe lanes. The terms mean the opposite thing to Americans vs. Brits, and those folks tend to stick with their original conception of the meaning even when they're in someone else's territory. This leads to a lot of ambiguity and confusion in my experience. So I prefer to use the term "leftmost" or "rightmost".
Thanks for the heads up. As someone who's not an American or British, that's something I haven't quite thought that through. Looks like "outside" lane is the one closest to the middle in British. But seeing as how the British drives on the left, the leftmost / rightmost still causes ambiguity unless the locale of the road is clear.

In this case, going with the dictionary's way of describing it, "closest to" / "farthest from" the middle, seem to be a good way of distinguishing them regardless of the regional differences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
Inner and outer are often applied to roadways that are loops. It's confusing when a roadway that goes in a circle switches direction from north, to east, to south, to west. Here in the US with left hand drive, the outer loop is the one that travels counter-clockwise and the inner loop travels clockwise.

As for lanes, it's not inner and outer, it's fast and slow, right?

ga2500ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
689 Posts
All this talk about road tripping with the Bolt versus Model 3... We have come a LONG way. "way" back in 2012 - only 8 years ago - I bought my first EV. It was a Leaf with 3.3kW AC charging and NO DCFC port. At the time, getting CHAdeMO meant upgrading to the higher trim level - a nearly $3k cost. Yes, you got more than DCFC for that, but it was nothing I really cared about so I opted out. Clearly a car with 73 miles of range and top charging speed of about 10-12 miles/hr was never going to be more than a local car.

In 2017, I upgraded to a Bolt. At the time I bought, the Model 3 still had a year+ waiting list and the Leaf+ was not yet available. The Bolt was the ONLY 200+ mile EV you could buy new for under $50k. The ~50kW DCFC speed was 15x faster than my Leaf could charge. Most of my road trips are under 300 miles, so they only require a single stop (two in winter with snow tires and a roof box). I was so happy that I could now travel with an EV, and leave the PHEV for local electric driving only. I have taken a 550+ mile trip multiple times in my Bolt. Yes, it takes hours longer than in the PHEV but I am happy to find something to fill the time with.

I understand that I am an enthusiast. I want to never burn gasoline again. For that, I am will to make sacrifices. But the sacrifices have come with many unexpected benefits such as exploring back roads I never knew about, and arriving at my destination fresh and rested as opposed to dog tired.

I can't wait for the next generation. It won't be perfect for everyone, but it should be enough of a step change to broaden the market even more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,071 Posts
All this talk about road tripping with the Bolt versus Model 3... We have come a LONG way. "way" back in 2012 - only 8 years ago - I bought my first EV. It was a Leaf with 3.3kW AC charging and NO DCFC port. At the time, getting CHAdeMO meant upgrading to the higher trim level - a nearly $3k cost. Yes, you got more than DCFC for that, but it was nothing I really cared about so I opted out. Clearly a car with 73 miles of range and top charging speed of about 10-12 miles/hr was never going to be more than a local car.

In 2017, I upgraded to a Bolt. At the time I bought, the Model 3 still had a year+ waiting list and the Leaf+ was not yet available. The Bolt was the ONLY 200+ mile EV you could buy new for under $50k. The ~50kW DCFC speed was 15x faster than my Leaf could charge. Most of my road trips are under 300 miles, so they only require a single stop (two in winter with snow tires and a roof box). I was so happy that I could now travel with an EV, and leave the PHEV for local electric driving only. I have taken a 550+ mile trip multiple times in my Bolt. Yes, it takes hours longer than in the PHEV but I am happy to find something to fill the time with.

I understand that I am an enthusiast. I want to never burn gasoline again. For that, I am will to make sacrifices. But the sacrifices have come with many unexpected benefits such as exploring back roads I never knew about, and arriving at my destination fresh and rested as opposed to dog tired.

I can't wait for the next generation. It won't be perfect for everyone, but it should be enough of a step change to broaden the market even more.
So true!

I like to ***** and moan about charging speed, but one of the reasons is how much I road trip my Bolt... this would not have been possible without Dieselgate. When I purchased my Bolt there were no DCFC stations within driving distance... I actually asked on this forum if I should spend the extra money on a Bolt with the DCFC port when I could not use it. Now I road trip all over the country in my Bolt.

I also agree 100% with the realization that I arrive at my destination refreshed rather than arriving as a zombie. I think that the 15 to 25 min charging stops in a Tesla would have the same revitalizing effect without the time consumed in 35 to 45 min charging sessions in the Bolt. I am really hoping that other manufacturers come up with long range EV's with 150+ KW charging speeds... at a reasonable price. That last two words is where I don't have the best feeling... I think we are still a ways from getting what we want at lower cost.

Later,

Keith
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
All this talk about road tripping with the Bolt versus Model 3... We have come a LONG way. "way" back in 2012 - only 8 years ago - I bought my first EV. It was a Leaf with 3.3kW AC charging and NO DCFC port. At the time, getting CHAdeMO meant upgrading to the higher trim level - a nearly $3k cost. Yes, you got more than DCFC for that, but it was nothing I really cared about so I opted out. Clearly a car with 73 miles of range and top charging speed of about 10-12 miles/hr was never going to be more than a local car.

In 2017, I upgraded to a Bolt. At the time I bought, the Model 3 still had a year+ waiting list and the Leaf+ was not yet available. The Bolt was the ONLY 200+ mile EV you could buy new for under $50k. The ~50kW DCFC speed was 15x faster than my Leaf could charge. Most of my road trips are under 300 miles, so they only require a single stop (two in winter with snow tires and a roof box). I was so happy that I could now travel with an EV, and leave the PHEV for local electric driving only. I have taken a 550+ mile trip multiple times in my Bolt. Yes, it takes hours longer than in the PHEV but I am happy to find something to fill the time with.

I understand that I am an enthusiast. I want to never burn gasoline again. For that, I am will to make sacrifices. But the sacrifices have come with many unexpected benefits such as exploring back roads I never knew about, and arriving at my destination fresh and rested as opposed to dog tired.

I can't wait for the next generation. It won't be perfect for everyone, but it should be enough of a step change to broaden the market even more.
I'm going in reverse. I just picked up a couple of Ford Ranger Electrics, which are a return to a time when even the capabilities of your Nissan LEAF would have been unthinkable. I'm going to do my best to modernize them, but those trucks in their original form are monuments to just how far we've come in only 20 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I don't mind one long stop on an 8+ hour trip, but I also don't want to have to watch the clock during that longer stop (i.e., I want the stop to take as long as it takes regardless of the charging session length, charging speed, etc.). Also, while I will occasionally want to make a quick bathroom stop in addition, I sometimes also want to be able to drive for as much as 4 hours in a sitting.

For my personal reference, I can go back to how I would take my 500 mile trips in my Chevy Volt. Over the course of 8 hours of driving, I would make one 15 minute fuel and bathroom break, one 45 minute meal break, and possibly a third 5 minute bathroom break (typically a rest area).

Currently, no EV available for purchase can do that. The Model 3 LR might come the closest (it still falls short), and it's hard to justify that much of an additional expense for a car that still doesn't fully meet those expectations. The only EV on the horizon that can is the Lightyear One ($150,000.... umm, no).

I'm also holding out hope for GM's Ultium battery line, but unfortunately, GM doesn't seem to have as much interest in small passenger cars. Though I never thought I'd hear myself say this, I might be considering a next generation Honda EV because they will be licensing their EV tech from GM. That might be the only way to access GM's EV tech in a small to midsize sedan for the foreseeable future.
That is exactly how the Tesla Model 3 works. I just completed a 357 mile trip today in my dual motor long range Model 3 with one 45 minute stop. If it had been another 150 miles, that would have been another 15 minute stop. Driving at 73 mph for the majority of the trip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
It would have charged slightly faster if he charged from 5% to 66% (same amount gained) instead of 19% to 80%. Even with the improved slow taper vs the sharp step downs in charge rate in the pre-2020, the 2020's still charge faster at below 50% SOC than they do above 50% so the lower your SOC when you start charging, the faster it charges.

To the OP:

To gain 179 miles on 61% charge gained (around 40ish KW) you must be getting 4.4 to 4.5 miles per kWh... you will not be getting that on a highway road trip. You will be getting somewhere between 3.1 and 3.5 miles per kWh depending on what speed you are running. So on a road trip that 49 min of charging would have given you between 125 and 140 miles of range. When your average Tesla driver gets fed up with how slow their Tesla is charging when it ramps down to our peak charging rate of 55 KW at 75% SOC and leaves, that shows the amount the Bolt is behind in the charging game. A Model 3 on a V3 Supercharger can gain 180 miles (EPA rated miles, closer to 155 miles at highway speeds) in 15 min vs the 2020 Bolt gaining 179 miles in 49 min when driving at very efficient speeds, or as stated above 140 miles max in real world highway driving...

In real world testing by MotorTrend, the model 3 on a V3 Supercharger can go from 5% to 90% in 46 min... a gain of aprox 220 miles (highway speed miles, 255 miles of EPA range) in 46 min. Looking at your charge, if you had started from a lower SOC you may have gained 180 miles in 45 min, but once again that is at very efficient driving speeds... still a half hour longer than the Tesla Model 3 for the same amount a range gained.

In the real world on the highway the Tesla 3 on V3 can gain aprox 155 miles in 15 min and the 2020 Bolt can gain at best 140 miles in 45 min. Hopefully this is resolved in the new BEV 3 cars.

Later,

Keith

PS: Not a Bolt hater, I road trip my 2017 Bolt cross country a few times a year... this is probably the reason I want faster charging :)
How many miles do you have on your 2017? Battery version 1 or 2?
 

·
Registered
2019 Chevy bolt ev premier
Joined
·
13 Posts
I’m going to record this next time I charge at an EA charging station, for proof. So, I began the charge with about 68 miles left and ended with 237. The session took just under 50 minutes. I was really impressed. Percentage wise, it went from 19% to 80%. I wanted to post this because I always see people online complaining about the Bolts charging speeds. To me, this is definitely adequate.

2020 Bolt Premier
I have a 2019 Chevy bolt updated with the software of a 2020 bolts. Of course I live in Omaha Nebraska so I need a consensus of what charge I should have my car at and temperature to charge my car up to 80% to help everybody gauge at 19 with updated software against a 2020 Chevy bolt with the same software.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
That is exactly how the Tesla Model 3 works. I just completed a 357 mile trip today in my dual motor long range Model 3 with one 45 minute stop. If it had been another 150 miles, that would have been another 15 minute stop. Driving at 73 mph for the majority of the trip.
Yup, but it's about $10,000 to $15,000 too expensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
I just went over 57,500 miles. Not sure what you mean by battery version 1 or 2.

Keith
Apparently, GM released a second version of the battery early on in 2017. As far as I know, if the build date for your Bolt EV is after January 1, 2017, you probably have v2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
I'm going in reverse. I just picked up a couple of Ford Ranger Electrics, which are a return to a time when even the capabilities of your Nissan LEAF would have been unthinkable. I'm going to do my best to modernize them, but those trucks in their original form are monuments to just how far we've come in only 20 years.
It would be awesome to convert one of these with Bolt systems...
- keep us posted on your progress/plans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,611 Posts
I'm going in reverse. I just picked up a couple of Ford Ranger Electrics, which are a return to a time when even the capabilities of your Nissan LEAF would have been unthinkable. I'm going to do my best to modernize them, but those trucks in their original form are monuments to just how far we've come in only 20 years.
Wow! Are those PbA or NiMH? I picked up a PbA off of a fleet lease in the mid oughts. 2000 miles on the odo, for $6k. After driving it for two years, and putting 4000 more miles on it, the PbA pack died. I sold it as-is for $6k to an EV hobbyist, who was thrilled to get it at that price. His intent was to put lithium in it, but I didn't follow up.

Nice truck, but somewhat spartan, decent performance, 60-ish mile range, with a nifty bed cover and a full-size spare that was poorly positioned in it. It was my daily driver, with a commute of five miles each way. The utility of owning a small pickup cannot be overstated.

Enjoy the AVCON charger. Clunky, but effective.

For anybody interested:

 
21 - 40 of 74 Posts
Top