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Discussion Starter #1
https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/09/nissan-leaf-pricing-range-horsepower-leak/

So glad I didn't wait on the Leaf....underwhelming at best. "Leaf will pack 147 horsepower and 236 pound-feel of torque with a range of around 150-160 miles. That a lot more than the 107 horsepower of the 2017 Leaf, but much less than the Bolt's 200 horsepower and 266 pound-feet ". Wondering if this drives some Nissan owners that have waiting over to the Bolt.
 

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Maybe, but it starts at ~$30K before incentives.
It also has a heat pump available, a more extensive fast charging network, options for power seats, adaptive cruise control and a built in Nav system. Plus a loyal following.

The big question is thermal management for the battery. If they stick with their "thermal battery management is just a band-aid" and go with a completely passive approach again, that will drive some waiting on the specs to other EV's - including the Bolt.
 

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^ For $29,990 (base Leaf) to $36,200 (loaded Leaf) some may be happy with the Leaf's lower range and HP/torque.

A 40kWh battery should give about 100mi winter range, 160mi average range and 200mi summer range if it's similar to other current EV's.
 

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i think you mean < $30k.
Fixed. Also adjusted since with the $885 destination charge it's actually $30,875.

A fully loaded SL will top out at ~$39K with the $900 Tech Package and $400 paint upcharge for Pearl White.

All these numbers are based on a "here today, gone today" configuration utility and need to be taken with a grain of salt (or the whole shaker?).

The Tech packages on the SV and SL both listed at $900, but the one for the SV included a bunch of stuff assumed to be standard on the SL with no addional goodies added to the SL Tech Package.
V02 SL Technology Package
GEN code: TE2
• Propilot Assist
• Intelligent Cruise Control (ICC)
• Automatic Emergency Braking (PAEB)
• Electric Parking Brake (EPKB)
• Intelligent Lane Intervention (I-LI)
• High Beam Assist (HBA)

V01 SV Technology Package
GEN code: TE1
• 6-Way Power Driver Seat w/2-Way Lumbar
• Auto-Dimming Inside Mirror
• Universal Garage Door Opener
• LED Headlights
• LED Signature Daytime Running Lights
• Portable Charge Cable
• Automatic Emergency Braking (PAEB)
• Blind Spot Warning (BSW)
• Electric Parking Brake (EPKB)
• High Beam Assist (HBA)
• Intelligent Lane Intervention (I-LI)
• Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA)
• Propilot Assist
• Intelligent Cruise Control (ICC)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think getting at a lower price point was a smart move for them. I just mean for me personally I am glad I didn't wait. I love actually having a zippy car to drive around in. Love the handling and get up and go on the Bolt. It's a hot hatch IMO something that the American consumer has largely missed out on for years.
 

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Yeah, but what is the peak DCFC rate, and where does it begin to taper? Shorter range doesn't matter so much if you can quickly charge.

I'm curious to see what happens to used gen I prices once the gen II begins selling. Can the price move downwards much more than the $7,000 point they are at now?

"Performance" to me doesn't mean acceleration for caged vehicles. I view performance in a sedan by how useful the interior volume is, and by fuel/electron efficiency.
 

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In my limited experience, I have only seen equal numbers of CHAdeMO and CCS Combo plugs at DCFC stations. Do they really have "a more extensive fast charging network", DucRider? Nissan does have a "charge for free" plan, but I thought that move (along with significant sticker adjustments) was just to entice people to buy the old Leaf and get rid of useless inventory. Will Nissan continue free charging for new Leafs? I have seen some Level 2 chargers placarded with "Nissan Charge for Free", but all those stations also charge all Bolts.
 

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In my limited experience, I have only seen equal numbers of CHAdeMO and CCS Combo plugs at DCFC stations. Do they really have "a more extensive fast charging network", DucRider? Nissan does have a "charge for free" plan, but I thought that move (along with significant sticker adjustments) was just to entice people to buy the old Leaf and get rid of useless inventory. Will Nissan continue free charging for new Leafs? I have seen some Level 2 chargers placarded with "Nissan Charge for Free", but all those stations also charge all Bolts.
CHAdeMO in Oregon:

CCS:


Plus many of the CCS stations shown are 24 kW

The West Coast had a significant number of CHAdeMO chargers installed as part of the "West Coast Electric Highway". CCS installations are increasing, but somewhat slowly.
The East Coast got a later start, and dual head is the most common.

Free charging is a complete unknown, but my guess is no (at least out of the gate).
 

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So, regarding Nissan's free charging program, as someone who just got off of a Leaf lease (and got a Bolt lease), I can tell you that Nissan's EZ Charge "no charge to charge" program was just not as easy as I thought it would be. For starters, the signup process took me a very long time, because you have to sign up separately with each separate charging company, but through EZ Charge.... Oh, and even after all that, it didn't activate right away. I had to wait for the card to become active, and keep trying to see when, because there was no notification (at least none that I saw). Then, once I got signed up and activated, I discovered that they would bill me at certain chargers that were reported to be free by their website. It took me a long time on the phone with them to convince them that they made a mistake, not me, so they finally "credited" my account. There was no refund. I was sort of puzzled by how I could even use that credit for a while, given that charging was supposed to be free, and that's when I discovered the other nuances of the program. If you charge for longer than the program allows, they charge you. If a charge station is not on the program, they charge you. After the first 2 years, they charge you everywhere no matter what. Oh, and then there was the time when my EZ Charge card just mysteriously stopped working, so as a backup plan I got what I thought was a completely separate card through Nrg EVgo while I waited for the EZ Charge folks to figure out and fix the problem. Well, that fixed it alright. Applying for that separate card somehow managed to prematurely turn off my "no charge to charge" privileges. After more time on the phone with them, I got it fixed, but the only explanation I ever got from anyone as to what happened was something like "Oh, we thought you didn't want to use free charging anymore". What?

Anyway, for me, having a battery capacity large enough that I only ever need to charge at home, that's just a more appealing option than trying to navigate Nissan's free charging program.
 

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Range is a huge deal with EV's and the Leaf will suffer for this. I know people waiting for the Leaf and they told me it would be over 200 mile range. I wonder if they will switch to the Bolt or Model 3 now. All 10 people I know are all giving up on the Model 3 as well. Ranging from not really wanting an EV now to people worried about the federal credit not being there for them. I know one person that is buying the Bolt over the Model 3 now because of the subsidies.

The big question I still have is if the new Leaf will have an active cooling system. The people I know with the Leaf in the Central Valley of California have had big problems with their batteries in the Leaf. Passive cooling the battery in a hot climate is not a good idea and I have a feeling the new Leaf will use the same cooling as the older versions.
 

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I can tell you that Nissan's EZ Charge "no charge to charge" program was just not as easy as I thought it would be...

Anyway, for me, having a battery capacity large enough that I only ever need to charge at home, that's just a more appealing option than trying to navigate Nissan's free charging program.
Thanks for sharing. Your experience sounds worse than I could have imagined, and I'm surprised you mildly sum it up as "not as easy as I thought it would be".

I imagine waiting for a charge to be a miserable experience, made much worse by being billed for a service you were told was free.

This is my hesitation for recommending an EV to people who intend to regularly exceed the range. If they feel the experience was bad, they may take a long time before considering an EV again.

Range is a huge deal with EV's and the Leaf will suffer for this. I know people waiting for the Leaf and they told me it would be over 200 mile range. I wonder if they will switch to the Bolt or Model 3 now. All 10 people I know are all giving up on the Model 3 as well.
If the Leaf is in the 160 mile range, that seems about right to me as far as local trips go. Pay for as little battery as necessary. If they price it correctly, there will be a market for the vehicle as the Bolt and 3 battle it out.

Did your 10 friends that were considering the 3 have deposits? I speculate that most of the current deposit holders will get a full rebate, and those just now putting down a deposit will get a partial.
 

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Look for a press release tomorrow with dates and locations where you can get your first look at the 2018 LEAF.

No specs. Those won't be released until the reveal. (I personally believe that people thinking <200 miles will be pleasantly surprised)
 
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