[greendave]

Curious what folks who have driven (or own) both have found in terms of comparison.

Going by the specs, the Leaf is bigger, slower and not able to DCFC as well due to lack of active battery cooling (and limited CHAdeMO availability), but it seems like range and overall utility should be fairly close?

Does the Leaf allow for one-pedal driving?

Any general information on battery degradation in temperature (coastal) climates?

 

[GregBrew]

I wouldn't touch a Leaf any more. (I bought a 2011 before I knew any better.) They use what appears to be inadequate air cooling of the battery pack, which can effect battery longevity negatively, especially in hotter climes. My range was only ~70% of the original after eight years and 20,000 miles, and I live in a pretty moderate climate (coastal So. CA). The so-called "lizard packs" that replaced them are an improvement, but won't entirely make up for inadequate thermal management. My degradation wasn't quick enough to qualify for a pack replacement, like the owners in Phoenix got.

But I'm not bitter...

 

[p7wang]

Leaf is perfect as an affordable home battery ($7,500 tax credit). Just get the CHAdeMO V2H charger (30% tax credit).

One Pedal Driving and All Around Camera is actually a Nissan innovation, so yes.

 

[stangbat]

My first EV was a 2019 Leaf SL with all options (not the plus). Got rid of it mainly due to the lack of cooling for the pack and the degradation I was seeing from Leaf Spy. And the range kind of stunk but that wasn't the main reason we got rid of it. Overall the Bolt is a much better car in my opinion even with the battery recall issues taken into account. Although I admit that before the full pack replacement was announced I had moments were I thought I should have kept the Leaf.

The only thing I'd consider better on the Leaf is the interior and seats. I've never driven or seen a 2022 Bolt, but from the photos and specs I've seen I don't think you can say the Leaf has that advantage any more.

The Leaf's one pedal driving is similar to the Bolt's L mode.

The Leaf may be bigger, but I don't think it felt like there was a lot more room for passengers or cargo.

The Bolt's charging options are much better than what the 2019 Leaf had. There was no way to set a charge limit, I had to do it based on time and set a time to stop charging to try and hit a certain percentage of charge.

I really liked the Leaf's surround view camera and that is a big reason why I went with a 2019 Premier rather than an LT.

I never DC FC, but the Bolt having CCS is also an advantage.

 

[sendler2112]

My 2014 LEAF was generally a nicer car to drive than the Bolt but lacked range, Battery state of health of the improved "Wolf Pack" or "Lizard Pack" chemistry whichever it had, was still good with 80% at 86,000 and 7 years which would equate to the cycles of a Bolt with 200,000 miles. The 30 kWh packs in the 2016 were less good again. Don't know about the new 40 and 60 kWh packs. Check the LEAF forum. Lesser ground clearance on the LEAF Plus though.

 

[GJETSON]

Just get the CHAdeMO V2H charger (30% tax credit).

My neighbors have orders in on every one I am aware of, for several years now. Nobody has actually delivered one. They are not impressed.

 

[Sean Nelson]

I wouldn't touch a Leaf or any other CHAdeMO-equipped car - it's days are numbered in North America. And that's not even considering the battery issues.

 

[wesley]

Nissan Leaf is the poster child of "squandered opportunity" as far as EV leadership is concerned.

 

[cwerdna]

And that's not even considering the battery issues.

Can you specify? As a Leaf enthusiast and someone active on MNL since mid-2011, sure, the pre-4/2013 Leaf batteries were terrible and the 30 kWh ones weren't good either but it seems the 40 kWh and 62 kWh are holding up ok, so far. Yes, the 62 kWh packs are relatively new as the car didn't ship in the US until Spring 2019.

Yes, I'm well aware of no pack thermal management and rapidgate, esp. on 40 kWh packs.

If someone's looking the equivalent of Surround Vision, you need to get a Leaf with Around View Monitor. I had that on both my '13 Leaf SV (which both had premium packages). Go to specs tab of https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/re...405f97533f414bc81c2d-us-2019-nissan-leaf-plus and search for that in the appropriate section.

If you skip to ~6:40 of the video at Nissan LEAF Might Have A Good Fast Charging Curve With Active TMS, you'll find that Leaf Plus on a "50 kW" EA charger that's outputting over 50 kW (actually 68 or 69 kW), its DC FC rate is actually better than Bolt. He was still at 50 kW at 67% SoC and didn't fall to 37 kW until about 80% SoC. It only crawls at 94% or so (12 kW) which isn't unlike a Bolt that full.

I'm not clear how often/common EA "50 kW" CHAdeMO handles are capped at 50 kW or uncapped.

 

[cwerdna]

My neighbors have orders in on every one I am aware of, for several years now. Nobody has actually delivered one. They are not impressed.

There are supposedly thousands of such systems in use in Japan. See https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=24497&p=504949&hilit=engineer+home+chief#p504949 and https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=507888#p507888. The link to the paper is dead but a copy can be found at Wayback Machine.

Unfortunately, this doesn't help us much in the US and yeah, CHAdeMO is pretty much toast in the US. To me, it will go into period of decline. EA's almost non-support of CHAdeMO (1 CHAdeMO handle at each site vs. 5 to 7 CCS and as many as 19 CCS) will get even worse outside CA: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=32390.

 

[GJETSON]

There supposedly thousands of such systems in use in Japan.

Yup. And Nissan has shown them at shows here in the US, but never actually offered them. Nissan's V2H is like VW's electric microbus....coming soon...since 2011.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Can you specify? As a Leaf enthusiast and someone active on MNL since mid-2011, sure, the pre-4/2013 Leaf batteries were terrible and the 30 kWh ones weren't good either but it seems the 40 kWh and 62 kWh are holding up ok, so far. Yes, the 62 kWh packs are relatively new as the car didn't ship in the US until Spring 2019.

Yes, I'm well aware of no pack thermal management and rapidgate, esp. on 40 kWh packs.

I know them by reputation only and by the fact that despite earlier problems they still didn't see fit to do decent thermal management of the battery. For me it's kind of like the Ford Pinto - they may have fixed the problem but I'd still be skeptical and hesitate to recommend it.

 

[cwerdna]

I know them by reputation only and by the fact that despite earlier problems they still didn't see fit to do decent thermal management of the battery.

Indeed. As you might imagine, many Leafer and MNLers were also very disappointed about the lack of battery thermal management (raises hand). But, it doesn't really matter for milder climates from a degradation POV (e.g. Pacific NW, the UK, city of San Francisco and probably lots of Canada). For DC FCing, yes rapidgate is an issue but not everyone DC FCes at all or often.

And, it took time to tell how the 40 kWh and 62 kWh batteries held up as the 30 kWh turned out to be turkeys.

My 2014 LEAF was generally a nicer car to drive than the Bolt but lacked range, Battery state of health of the improved "Wolf Pack" or "Lizard Pack" chemistry whichever it had, was still good with 80% at 86,000 and 7 years which would equate to the cycles of a Bolt with 200,000 miles. The 30 kWh packs in the 2016 were less good again. Don't know about the new 40 and 60 kWh packs. Check the LEAF forum. Lesser ground clearance on the LEAF Plus though.

You had the "wolf pack" as LeftieBiker at MNL termed it as did I. My last Leaf was built 5/2013 and had LeafSpy SOH around 79.xx% when I sold it with about 68K miles a few months ago. Was down 1 capacity bar, soon to be 2.

Nissan referred to the informal term "lizard" at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17168 for the more heat resistant 24 kWh pack that went on model year '15 and presumably '16 original S. Since we found the US Leafs built 4/2013 thru model year '14 seemed better than the garbage pre-4/2013 packs, Leftie came up with "wolf pack". I think he calls the pre-4/2013 "canary packs".

For 30 kWh, when those were dropping very badly, he decided to call those "lettuce packs". A fix did come out to fix the reporting: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=26009 and https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&p=610976&hilit=pc630#p610976 but it does seem post-update, those 30 kWh packs are worse than "lizard" packs.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Nissan referred to the informal term "lizard"... ... Leftie came up with "wolf pack". I think he calls the pre-4/2013 "canary packs". ... he decided to call those "lettuce packs".

So I guess that means we Bolt owners have... what? "Inferno packs"?

 

[CougarMtn]

In-laws have a 2013 leaf, and we have a 2014. Both have held up really well. Mainly used for trips into town, running errands, etc. DC fast charge not needed for our use. Approximately 50k miles on both, and only down one bar. PNW environment, and parked inside. We like the Bolt for its added range and features, but the Leaf treats us well, and is very comfortable to drive.

 

[JaxTom]

Traded in a 2018 Leaf for a Bolt. Fantastic move. Bolt so much roomier. I can't think of a single thing on the Leaf that I prefer over Bolt. Maybe the power seat, but I never adjust mine so....

 

[cwerdna]

For me, if I get a good buyback amount (I'm in CA) and I was informed on Friday that Bolts are banned from my work (still trying to get that resolved), going backwards to a Leaf as a temp EV is a possibility. Might even have to go back to a non-Plus (only 40 kWh, ~150 mile range) gen 2 to avoid overpaying...

Disregarding this battery recall mess, although the Bolt is overall a huge step forward from my former '13 Leaf (e.g. range (game changer), acceleration (Bolt is WAY faster), battery thermal management, etc.), nice large LCD, CarPlay, lots of safety features n/a back on my old Leaf, '19 Bolt Premier has many quirks and thus numerous things my '13 Leaf did better. And, the gen 1 and 2 Leaf interiors to me are of better quality than the crap '19 Bolt interior. Also, Bolt drivetrain is noisier.

There are too many to list like the center nose inlet location is way better for public and workplace charging, source selection for the stereo is not great on Bolt, '13 SV w/premium package Around View Monitor was much better than '19's Surround Vision, camera button on bezel to activate Around View Monitor w/1 press vs. multiple steps and waiting for infotainment system on Bolt, no quirky auto headlight switch/controls that puts unnecessary cycles on HIDs (bad for them), missing clock and outside temp display on the in front of the driver gauge cluster (is on gen 1 Leaf's eyebrow). Bolt's delayed charging/timer UI is daunting vs. the simple UI on touchscreen Leafs. Bolt's Surround Vision has this stupid auto-exit behavior if you mute or adjust the stereo's volume. Bolt has no 1% increment SoC display and instead if I have to rely on now buggy and unreliable My Chevrolet app.

I could go on and on but am busy w/my day job.

My seat time w/gen 2 Leaf ('18+) is limited though. I spent about 45 minutes test driving one before they went '18 Leafs went on sale in the US and I've poked around a bunch at various EVents.

Power seat didn't become an option on Leaf until gen 2, which I've never owned/leased yet.

 

[OkieBolt]

I have driven a couple gens of Leafs and I liked them and at one time had planned on buying one even knowing of the battery issues. Biggest problem is unless the car is in your city good luck getting it home. Even a city 100 miles away may turn into an 8 hour or more trip. Limited range, limited fast charging and battery issues not related to fire are major downers. However once you have one it makes a great city car. Would be a great car for a teen that you wanted to ensure could not drive out of state without you knowing.

 

[greendave]

Thanks for all the comments/feedback.

Point of clarification though - there's a big difference in range and packaging between the current 2019-and-newer Leaf+ (purported 226 mile range) and the earlier pre-2017 models (73-120 mile range) that lots of folks are mentioning. Mainly curious about the newer one.

 

[cwerdna]

Yep. Gen 1 Leafs had EPA range ratings from 73 to 107 miles w/107 being on the 30 kWh Leafs that were only for 2 model years.

Gen 2 (2018 to current) are available in 40 and 62 kWh versions. 40 kWh non-Plus EPA range rating is ~150 miles. 62 kWh Plus version (went on sale in the US starting around Spring 2019) has 200ish mile EPA range rating with the lowest trim S Plus having more range than the higher SV and SL trims.

One can look these up at Compare Cars Side-by-Side.