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I thought a GFCI was only used on single run outlets or the first outlet in a series of outlets to one breaker.
I think GFCI protection has already been required for outdoor locations, all bathroom outlets, all kitchen outlets, and all garage outlets. Doesn't really matter if it's a GFCI at the location or if its a GFCI "upstream" in a series, or if it's a GFCI breaker. Seems like eventually they will just require GFCI on everything. Maybe AFCI too, along with surge suppressors. Suppliers of this equipment probably have a huge influence on what gets written into code. If it works like laws, they are actually writing the code.
 

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If your first outlet is not GFCI then it will not have protection. If your first outlet is GFCi then it will protect all downstream outlets. If you make all outlets in a series GFCI and one in the middle trips and is hidden then it is difficult to find and reset the circuit. CMIAW.
 

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FWIW, my ESVE was furnished by the utility and I paid their installer's labor. They did not use a GFCI anywhere; just a normal 50-amp breaker, direct three-wire run to the outlet. I expected it to be hard-wired, but they furnished a plug-in unit.

And yes, the city electrical inspector passed it. In fact, I asked why it wasn't four-wire. He said only those applications which have a 115-volt tap off the 230-volt are required to use four-wire.

jack vines
 

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the city electrical inspector passed it
That doesn't mean it was done right. I had my installation inspected. I made sure I covered all the requirements for routing and boxing in the attic and didn't make common mistakes like running Romex in conduit or using a non WR plug outside or not using a "in-use" outdoor cover. Inspector only looked at the wire gage used and breaker size and signed off. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
And yes, the city electrical inspector passed it. In fact, I asked why it wasn't four-wire. He said only those applications which have a 115-volt tap off the 230-volt are required to use four-wire.

jack vines
NEC 2016 doesn't require GFCI. It takes between a year and 10 for a jurisdiction to adopt and update and even then there may be amendments the city specifies. A lot of builders have been pushing back against the GFCI requirements.

I personally dislike that 14-50 has become the defacto standard for EVSEs because you end up with crap like this. Honestly with everything being digital, modern appliances requiring dual voltages is silly.

That doesn't mean it was done right. I had my installation inspected.
I've spent a couple weekends and a $K or so fixing the permitted work the guy who rewired my house did. I mean, the guy didn't even run a ground to the 240V to my garage.. 3 8 gauge wires (marked red, black and white) and no ground? Inspector should have caught that.
 

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NEC 2016 doesn't require GFCI. It takes between a year and 10 for a jurisdiction to adopt and update and even then there may be amendments the city specifies. A lot of builders have been pushing back against the GFCI requirements.

I personally dislike that 14-50 has become the defacto standard for EVSEs because you end up with crap like this. Honestly with everything being digital, modern appliances requiring dual voltages is silly.



I've spent a couple weekends and a $K or so fixing the permitted work the guy who rewired my house did. I mean, the guy didn't even run a ground to the 240V to my garage.. 3 8 gauge wires (marked red, black and white) and no ground? Inspector should have caught that.
Three-wire, no fourth neutral, is according to the direct question to the inspector, correct wiring for a 240-volt outlet. You may disagree, but it meets and passes current code.

jack vines
 

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Three-wire, no fourth neutral, is according to the direct question to the inspector, correct wiring for a 240-volt outlet. You may disagree, but it meets and passes current code.
That stands to reason. Pure 240V systems don't use neutral, 4-wire solutions accommodate appliances that use both 120V and 240V like a range. The 120V circuit generally runs the lighting and circuitry, the 240V goes to the heating elements.

A NEMA 10-50 is a three-wire HHG circuit, this is what many appliances use. If they require a 120V (or even 12V) circuit, they will handle that by stepping down with a transformer.

EVSE only have HHG connectors, so if you are running four-wire cable to it, you simply cap off the white lead. So, why bother with a 4-wire cable. Some EVSE may also have lower voltage components like WiFi or LED displays, these are likely fed by circuits stepped down with a transformer.
 

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That stands to reason. Pure 240V systems don't use neutral, 4-wire solutions accommodate appliances that use both 120V and 240V like a range. The 120V circuit generally runs the lighting and circuitry, the 240V goes to the heating elements.

A NEMA 10-50 is a three-wire HHG circuit, this is what many appliances use. If they require a 120V (or even 12V) circuit, they will handle that by stepping down with a transformer.

EVSE only have HHG connectors, so if you are running four-wire cable to it, you simply cap off the white lead. So, why bother with a 4-wire cable. Some EVSE may also have lower voltage components like WiFi or LED displays, these are likely fed by circuits stepped down with a transformer.
Actually a 10- series is a HHN, with a neutral, not a ground. As such the neutral can carry current so that a 120V circuit can be powered. The problem is that there's no true ground. Of course the neutral line is bonded to ground in the main panel. But the problem is that the safety ground can be compromised if the neutral is cut or disconnected between the appliance and the main panel. That's why current code requires a safety ground on all circuits with a separate neutral when necessary.

EVSEs really don't have HHG connectors which is the NEMA 6-series plugs. They have connectors in the 14-series and then not use the neutral. The problem with this approach, as with almost everything in the NEC, is that someone can plug in something that actually requires that neutral, like an RV, expecting it to be there because 14 series NEMA receptacle is supposed to have a neutral, and things start blowing up because 120V devices are now getting 240V, or nothing works due to an incomplete circuit.

The correct way to manage it is that if 3 wires are run for a 240V circuit, it is best terminated with a 6 series receptacle. The entire point of having different configurations for receptacles and plugs is so that the requirements of the device match what's coming from the wall. If someone really needs to adapt, they should use an adapter where it is intentional that an explicit conversion is being done.

ga2500ev
 
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