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I find that last part to be a bit suspect. While I'm sure the Vredesteins are decently efficient, the Michelin Energy Saver A/S are in another class, even among low rolling resistance tires. Perhaps it's only a 5% difference in range, but to some people, that would be significant. Everything with tires is a trade off, so we don't just get "free" better handling, better water evacuation, and better cold weather characteristics.

That being said, I'm over 60,000 miles in my second set of OEM Michelin Energy Saver A/S (these are for the Gen 2 Volt), so I will be looking to replace them soon. I'll add the Vredestein Quatrac 5 to my list of consideration (I tend to do A LOT of research before purchasing tires).
Nothing is "free", but remember you are comparing the self-sealing OEM tires which add the weight of the self-sealing goo. The non self-sealing version is lighter and may indeed have an efficiency advantage, but I believe that the Vredesteins are within a few percent of the Michelin OEMs. Also, don't forget when your replace a set of tires, you are changing from tread depth that has declined from 11/32 to 3/32. which reduces the diameter of the tire a half inch. You are getting fewer miles per rotation, but the speedometer won't know that. When you put on new tires, you can expect a few percent less just from the change in diameter and the weight of the lost tread. I have driven more than 6,000 miles on the Vredesteins, and typically take a 125 mile round trip weekly with it, so I have a good sense of efficiency. The weather and the use of heat or air conditioning are much bigger influences than the tire difference, but I think the safety upgrade with these tires is enourmous. That, and they are 2/3 the price of the OEMs! That pays for the compressor, tire plug kit, and tire sealer you need to have in the trunk.

Anyone else out there try these tires??? If I am wrong, would be good to get another point of view
 

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Nothing is "free", but remember you are comparing the self-sealing OEM tires which add the weight of the self-sealing goo. The non self-sealing version is lighter and may indeed have an efficiency advantage, but I believe that the Vredesteins are within a few percent of the Michelin OEMs. Also, don't forget when your replace a set of tires, you are changing from tread depth that has declined from 11/32 to 3/32. which reduces the diameter of the tire a half inch. You are getting fewer miles per rotation, but the speedometer won't know that. When you put on new tires, you can expect a few percent less just from the change in diameter and the weight of the lost tread. I have driven more than 6,000 miles on the Vredesteins, and typically take a 125 mile round trip weekly with it, so I have a good sense of efficiency. The weather and the use of heat or air conditioning are much bigger influences than the tire difference, but I think the safety upgrade with these tires is enourmous. That, and they are 2/3 the price of the OEMs! That pays for the compressor, tire plug kit, and tire sealer you need to have in the trunk.

Anyone else out there try these tires??? If I am wrong, would be good to get another point of view
Yes. I am aware. Remember, I'm on my second set of OEMs, one with sealer and one without. While it's true that several other factors are a bigger influence on range and efficiency than rolling resistance, it all adds up. On long trips, I generally like to make my first stop 180 to 200 miles out. I'm already threading the needle with a freeway speed efficiency that's maybe 210 to 220 miles. Using even 5% more energy would be noticeable to me.

All I'm saying is that there's not perfect combination of tire compound and tread pattern; there are trade offs with everything. Now, there might be an ideal or near perfect combination for a specific person's values and needs. Perhaps I value efficiency and tire wear more than you. Perhaps you value grip and cold weather performance more than me. The right tire for me might not be the right tire for you or the next person.
 

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Yes. I am aware. Remember, I'm on my second set of OEMs, one with sealer and one without. While it's true that several other factors are a bigger influence on range and efficiency than rolling resistance, it all adds up. On long trips, I generally like to make my first stop 180 to 200 miles out. I'm already threading the needle with a freeway speed efficiency that's maybe 210 to 220 miles. Using even 5% more energy would be noticeable to me.

All I'm saying is that there's not perfect combination of tire compound and tread pattern; there are trade offs with everything. Now, there might be an ideal or near perfect combination for a specific person's values and needs. Perhaps I value efficiency and tire wear more than you. Perhaps you value grip and cold weather performance more than me. The right tire for me might not be the right tire for you or the next person.
All fair points, and I cannot "prove" it, but I doubt I have seen even a 2 -3% difference. I do overinflate the tires, as many on this forum do, and the high performance tires have VERY high max pressures. If you are doing those long highway trips, my experience has been cruising at 65 and inflating 3-5 lbs over recommended pressure keeps me in the 230s. Again, this is temperature dependent, and climate control dependent. My range commuting would go up to 300 (local, under 45mph, 35 mile round trip), and highway trips on 65mph interstates into NYC in Winter with heat on would bring me down to 160. Still think the Vredesteins virtually match the OEMs for efficiency and destroy them on everything else... as close to a free lunch as I've ever had. And I don't like slowing down for turns ;-) Too many years driving a WRX, another car with a low center of gravity.
 

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We got our first real rain today since I bought my car in early March, and driving to work this morning I nearly hydroplaned off the road twice at less than 35 mph.
I completely disagree with the statement "2020 OEM tires SUUUUUUCK in the rain!!!!"!
They seem to blow in any weather. They are very slippery even on dry pavement. My car skids all the time in fast turns and on emergency braking. And I wonder what the efficiency would be with different, better tires.
I have a friend with a T3 and he says he has the same tires (probably different size) but does not experience any skidding. So i wonder if it's actually the suspension that is mis-designed...
And if you disagree, please look up Endmund's video review on YouTube of the Bolt against the Khona. They complained about the same thing.
 

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I completely disagree with the statement "2020 OEM tires SUUUUUUCK in the rain!!!!"!
They seem to blow in any weather. They are very slippery even on dry pavement. My car skids all the time in fast turns and on emergency braking. And I wonder what the efficiency would be with different, better tires.
I have a friend with a T3 and he says he has the same tires (probably different size) but does not experience any skidding. So i wonder if it's actually the suspension that is mis-designed...
And if you disagree, please look up Endmund's video review on YouTube of the Bolt against the Khona. They complained about the same thing.
The Model 3 uses different tires (MXM4s), which I've also owned -- I digress, but suffice to say I was easily able to do AWD burnouts in them in an EVO with ~300 WHP. The MXM4s are classified as LRR tires, but they fall somewhere between true LLR tires and a performance oriented all season tire.

As for the comparison of the Bolt EV versus the Kona Electric, I'd have to re-read that review. What I do know from Kona Electric owners is that their stock Nexen LLR tires are equality guilty of running out of traction.

It seems like people bought an efficient car with true LRR tires while expecting to get a performance car with performance oriented tires. Either that, or they never learned how to drive a FWD car with this much power and torque. shrug
 

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I completely disagree with the statement "2020 OEM tires SUUUUUUCK in the rain!!!!"!
They seem to blow in any weather. They are very slippery even on dry pavement. My car skids all the time in fast turns and on emergency braking. And I wonder what the efficiency would be with different, better tires.
I have a friend with a T3 and he says he has the same tires (probably different size) but does not experience any skidding. So i wonder if it's actually the suspension that is mis-designed...
And if you disagree, please look up Endmund's video review on YouTube of the Bolt against the Khona. They complained about the same thing.
Having owned both a FWD and RWD BEV, my opinion is the torque of an EV mixed with FWD will make almost any tire suck. My Leaf only had 107 hp, don't recall the torque and it was pathetic in anything other than dry weather. On the other hand, the RWD BEV can accelerate from a dead stop with no wheel spin and do a 5 second 0-60. I'd like to hear from any Spark owners that had something like 400 lb-ft. of torque. How did they handle it?
 

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I completely disagree with the statement "2020 OEM tires SUUUUUUCK in the rain!!!!"!
They seem to blow in any weather. They are very slippery even on dry pavement. My car skids all the time in fast turns and on emergency braking. And I wonder what the efficiency would be with different, better tires.
I have a friend with a T3 and he says he has the same tires (probably different size) but does not experience any skidding. So i wonder if it's actually the suspension that is mis-designed...
And if you disagree, please look up Endmund's video review on YouTube of the Bolt against the Khona. They complained about the same thing.
I have pounded the table on the Vredestein LRRs being day and night better, but cannot find another EV owner to back me up. I should get a free set from Vredestein at this point. I agree with you 100%, and don't understand the drivers that are willing to put up with borderline dangerous tires because they sell them to manufacturers cheaply and they give good mileage for the window sticker. The BOLT handles fine with better tires, and I have owned torque monsters before (Grand Prix GTP supercharged coupe, that I modded for even more power). The Michelins are simply bad tires for anything but long highway drives on dry ground
 

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I have pounded the table on the Vredestein LRRs being day and night better, but cannot find another EV owner to back me up. I should get a free set from Vredestein at this point. I agree with you 100%, and don't understand the drivers that are willing to put up with borderline dangerous tires because they sell them to manufacturers cheaply and they give good mileage for the window sticker. The BOLT handles fine with better tires, and I have owned torque monsters before (Grand Prix GTP supercharged coupe, that I modded for even more power). The Michelins are simply bad tires for anything but long highway drives on dry ground
I can back you up. It may be why I have no wheelspin but I don't think my previous michelins did either. Do you think the formulas between different brands are the same across their entire lineup?
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I can back you up. It may be why I have no wheelspin but I don't think my previous michelins did either. Do you think the formulas between different brands are the same across their entire lineup? View attachment 30103
I have been a fan of Michelins for a few years, but these tires put me off them, so, I definitely think they vary with product lines: I have had great tires and bad tires from the same manufacturer. Michelin X-Ice 2 and X-Ice 3 snow tires are low rolling resistance and rated second only to the Norwegian Nokians in snow, so throw what you believe about LRR being a compromise out the window. I found these Vredesteins are AMAZING on all 3 cars I put them on (one performance wagon, one 3-row SUV, one EV) as the best all-season tire I have ever owned. That said, I only have bought Quatrac 5's and don't know if the Quatrac Pros are good for their category (and we have another car in the family where the Quatrac 5 is not available, but the Quatrac Pro is (2009 Ford Fusion SEL AWD with low profile 17" tires), and I don't know enough yet to make a decision vs the Michelins that were stock on this car and VERY good). One BIG plus is that Vredestein is not well known and are currently low priced
 

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I have been a fan of Michelins for a few years, but these tires put me off them, so, I definitely think they vary with product lines: I have had great tires and bad tires from the same manufacturer. Michelin X-Ice 2 and X-Ice 3 snow tires are low rolling resistance and rated second only to the Norwegian Nokians in snow, so throw what you believe about LRR being a compromise out the window. I found these Vredesteins are AMAZING on all 3 cars I put them on (one performance wagon, one 3-row SUV, one EV) as the best all-season tire I have ever owned. That said, I only have bought Quatrac 5's and don't know if the Quatrac Pros are good for their category (and we have another car in the family where the Quatrac 5 is not available, but the Quatrac Pro is (2009 Ford Fusion SEL AWD with low profile 17" tires), and I don't know enough yet to make a decision vs the Michelins that were stock on this car and VERY good). One BIG plus is that Vredestein is not well known and are currently low priced
The ones on my Model 3 are the Quatrac 5 XL and before I bought them, I had never heard of them. I chose them mostly because of the ratings of other owners and the price point seemed like a good value. Reinforces your theory that being in the shadows and no advertising budget, they provide a great product for a good price. It's good to hear another positive opinion so when it comes time to replace I will consider them again. I bought through tire rack packaged with Enkei rims so I wouldn't have to have them mounted since I needed a summer set to go along with my snow tires on the OEM rims.
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I have been a fan of Michelins for a few years, but these tires put me off them, so, I definitely think they vary with product lines: I have had great tires and bad tires from the same manufacturer. Michelin X-Ice 2 and X-Ice 3 snow tires are low rolling resistance and rated second only to the Norwegian Nokians in snow, so throw what you believe about LRR being a compromise out the window.
The Nokians are LRR as well.
 

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I switched to the Nokian all weather WRG4 last fall as I was uncomfortable with the OEM slippage even in the dry. But I was brand new to EV's and came from a Mazda with fairly sticky tires. The Nokian's will still slip but I like them better in the rain and Chicago winter. Now that I'm back to summer range and 13 months under my belt I'm okay with the about 30 miles or so less range for the trade off of less tire spin. Although now that I'm work from home permanently, short as it was, I really miss the daily drive!
 
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