[GregBrew]

Can you please provide additional information for those of us who have learned, apparently incorrectly, that Level 3 is DCFC?

There is no actual Level 3 charge standard-compliant equipment out in the wild. The SAE standards do specify a Level 3, but it is decidedly not the same as DCFC, which is out in the wild. The SAE document outlining this is behind a paywall, and I don't feel like spending $148 for a copy.

This mistake is so common now, that I'm getting tired of fighting it, and will probably just give up doing so.

 

[jmcbrew]

There is no actual Level 3 charge standard-compliant equipment out in the wild...

This mistake is so common now, that I'm getting tired of fighting it, and will probably just give up doing so.

Yes... that's probably best. DCFC is going to be known as "level 3" just as EVSEs are going to be commonly known as "chargers." Fighting this is a losing battle that just makes EV fans look like geeky snobs.

 

[ga2500ev]

Yes... that's probably best. DCFC is going to be known as "level 3" just as EVSEs are going to be commonly known as "chargers." Fighting this is a losing battle that just makes EV fans look like geeky snobs.

No one has answered my question of what happens when eventually a Level 3 for AC or DC is actually introduced? People will call it Level 4?

I just don't get the pride some seem to have knowingly calling something by the wrong name. The true damage is the fact that those who are ignorant then pick up wrong terminology which exacerbates the problem

ga2500ev

 

[MichBolt]

No one has answered my question of what happens when eventually a Level 3 for AC or DC is actually introduced? People will call it Level 4?

I just don't get the pride some seem to have knowingly calling something by the wrong name. The true damage is the fact that those who are ignorant then pick up wrong terminology which exacerbates the problem

ga2500ev

There are infinite decimal numbers between 2 and 3. I don't think it will be a problem.

 

[ga2500ev]

There are infinite decimal numbers between 2 and 3. I don't think it will be a problem.

Except that it is because now that requires renaming something that's been wrongly named "Level 3" to a new name that people don't know "Level 2.5" and the new value "Level 3" now means something different than the interpretation from before.

This issue has popped up for example with the bulk naming of all Fast Charging stations to "SuperChargers". Some new owners of CCS EVs wrongly assume they can charge at Tesla Supercharger stations because all fast charging are SuperChargers. But here if someone new posted that they charged at the EVGo SuperCharger and someone tried to correct them, a crowd of "Well we know what they meant." folks would call to let it go.

Details matter. Wouldn't it just be simpler to call things by their correct name?

ga2500ev

 

[MichBolt]

Except that it is because now that requires renaming something that's been wrongly named "Level 3" to a new name that people don't know "Level 2.5" and the new value "Level 3" now means something different than the interpretation from before.

This issue has popped up for example with the bulk naming of all Fast Charging stations to "SuperChargers". Some new owners of CCS EVs wrongly assume they can charge at Tesla Supercharger stations because all fast charging are SuperChargers. But here if someone new posted that they charged at the EVGo SuperCharger and someone tried to correct them, a crowd of "Well we know what they meant." folks would call to let it go.

Details matter. Wouldn't it just be simpler to call things by their correct name?

ga2500ev

It would be simpler to have a consistent convention, like increasing voltage being named by increasing level.

There are also 26 letters available. Level 2B or not 2B, that is the question.

 

[jmcbrew]

I'm not a huge fan of the "level x" system, anyway. I mean, L1 just means 120v and L2 means 208/240v. It doesn't technically mean one os faster than the other. L1 at 16 amps is faster than L2 at 6 amps. Yes, I know the Bolt won't charge at 16 amps on 120, but other EVs do. And yes, there are L2 EVSEs out there that will go down to 6 amps... I happen to have one that will. L1 has a pretty small range of amperage, whereas L2 has a pretty big range, which even overlaps L1 in terms of power. These really should have just been combined into "Level 1" and then described as being 120v or 208/240v at a certain amperage.

It's not likely we will see true SAE L3 AC charging here int he US... at least not on light duty vehicles. L3 AC is 3-phase. They do use this on some light vehicles in Europe, but that's because 3-phase power is a little more common over there in non-industrial applications. A lot of public L2 charging in the US is fed from two phases of a 3-phase line, which is where you get 208v. Not the same as an actual 3-phase EVSE. It is pretty cool in Europe that there are cars that can charge on 22kW 3-phase EVSEs that are no bigger or more complicated than an 11kW unit here.

 

[jmcbrew]

Also, according to SAE, L1 is up to 1.92kW at 120V and L2 starts at 5kW at 208V... so apparently there are no 16 amp L2 EVSEs. That's weird, because I have 6 of them in my trunk right now. Not kidding.

EDIT: I just realized that 16 amp 240V charging must be Level 1.5! Or is that Level 1B?

 

[jefro]

Ultrafast.

 

[MichBolt]

Also, according to SAE, L1 is up to 1.92kW at 120V and L2 starts at 5kW at 208V... so apparently there are no 16 amp L2 EVSEs. That's weird, because I have 6 of them in my trunk right now. Not kidding.

EDIT: I just realized that 16 amp 240V charging must be Level 1.5! Or is that Level 1B?

1.2v16

Edit: No, 1.2a16

 

[ehidle]

What will likely happen is that SAE will formally adopt CCS as its Level 3 standard since it is the most widely deployed open standard and has the support of the utility operators.

 

[ga2500ev]

What will likely happen is that SAE will formally adopt CCS as its Level 3 standard since it is the most widely deployed open standard and has the support of the utility operators.

It has already been formally adopted by SAE. In the standards documents it's called DCFC Level 2.

Circling back around to the central point: There is no such thing as a Level 3.

ga2500ev

 

[Don S]

I've seen 2 numbers associated with the Bolt.
11 kW, and 55 kW

I saw a public charging station outside of a Denny's restaurant, stopped by to look at the spec. It read "50 kW". This station only charges $0.50 per hour to charge.

So if I hook up my future Bolt EUV to it, will I get 11 kW/hour delivered to the battery, or will I get 50 kW/hour? I know there are losses due to battery SOC and other factors, so the numbers I posted are ideal/theoretical. Let's assume there's no loss to make it easier to understand.

Thanks!

Be sure to note difference between kW KWh and kW/hour. KW is a unit of power- the rate of transferring electric energy. KWh (kilowatt hour) is a unit of enery. You store energy in the battery. I do not believe KW/h is a standard unit. I have never come across it. Multiplying KW by time gives you the energy you are storing in your battery. BTW, the rated figure of the charger is not the power you will deliver to the battery. It is the maximum power it can put out. The actual power delivered is determined by your car and charger.

 

[cwerdna]

I see at Denny's Delano | PlugShare a reference to EV Connect (New Electric Vehicle Fast Chargers Now Available Along State Highways in Central California | Caltrans). You may have to use their app to see accurate pricing. I just took a look at their app.

It looks like there are 2 J1772 handles and it claims 7.2 kW (it's possible it's slightly off, not clear if they account for 208 vs. 240 volts) which are 50 cents per hour.

It also lists two dual handle 50 kW DC FCs and it's $2 per hour. You can also get hit with $1/hour idle fees.

Since you mention Delano, I HAVE charged my former Bolt at Delano Maintenance Station | PlugShare before, which has two FREE DC FCs. Used them during my road trip between Nor Cal and So Cal in Dec 2021. I took highway 99. They are part of New Electric Vehicle Fast Chargers Now Available Along State Highways in Central California | Caltrans. Those guys will NOT go above 50 kW though.

One unit worked fine. The other one worked except its LCD was totally out. The hardware stop button didn't work nor was I able to stop charging by pushing pretty hard on the CCS handle's trigger. I didn't want to break it as it didn't feel a two stage button that would ramp down charging then release. I had to press stop on my former Bolt's infotainment system.

If I had my Niro EV, I wouldn't even want to try it since it has no stop button I can find.

So, I did a road trip to So Cal on Christmas Day. I'm in So Cal now.

Both stations at Delano Maintenance Station | PlugShare were broken for CCS. CHAdeMO might work.

I had to backtrack and use Denny's Delano | PlugShare which I confirmed is super cheap at $2/hr for DC FC. I was busy but did see 37 kW charging rate. Don't know if that was the peak. On my Niro EV, I got 39.713 kWh over 1 hour 7 mins and it cost me $2.25! This is the cheapest DC FC I've used short of being free. I charged well into my Niro EV's tapers so if I cut it off earlier, it'd have been less per kWh.

At least Tejon Pass Rest Area - Southbound | PlugShare improved to at least 3 working instead of 1. It's possible a 4th one works but only on the CHAdeMO side.

While playing w/my Niro EV on a DC FC, I found I could stop DC FC if I set its target charge level to below where I was at. But, I think its minimum is 50%... so, if below 50%, not sure you can stop from the car side.

 

[jmcbrew]

And for God’s sake, don’t write “A/C”. It is not air divided by conditioning.

 

[no-gas]

And for God’s sake, don’t write “A/C”. It is not air divided by conditioning.

Interesting you say that. I've seen AC used for alternating current and A/C used for air conditioning. It is perfectly normal to use A/C.

Cheers!

 

[Kbecker]

Can I still use when/if, or will you think I am doing math with my conjunctions?