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So GregBrew, you are saying EV-1 was even funnier than raw 500e? I never drove Tesla, so I cannot compare, but 500e feels more powerful than Bolt. Sure, above 40 mph Bolt gives more oomph. But from dead stop - it will not even spin tires. I can get some chirp at 30 mph, but dead stop.
TC on or off, Sport on or off - almost same take off.
Boring....
[/QUOTE]
Interesting observation. Every road test I can find shows the Bolt about 2 seconds faster 0-60. If the 500e comes off the line harder, it must drop off rather quickly.
 

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Interesting observation. Every road test I can find shows the Bolt about 2 seconds faster 0-60. If the 500e comes off the line harder, it must drop off rather quickly.
I had 500e for about 8000 miles or 11 months.
Bolt is... I compare it a turbocharged engine powered car. There is always some turbo lag. That's what Bolt is.
500e - there is no power build up. You press the accelerator - it gives you all of it. Right away.
In Bolt - I can see that the moment I depress it, say at 60% travel, and power comes, gauge shows 45 kW and it building up to 110 kW and will keep it there. Sport mode will make this happen at a lower travel depth, but overall power build up is faster.
In 500e - I press it and expect 65 kW - it gets there within fraction of a second. I mean, literally - it is less than a second.

Comparing Bolt to 500e - the latter will have better jolt experience.


Now 0-60 - yes, 500e falls with power quite quickly. Till about 40-45 mph it has good pull. Anything above - still goes, but Bolt takes big advantage.
When I did (several...) hard pulls - 500e you feel 0-25 mph is quite strong, more torque is released at 25 mph so it gets even better, but once you pass 35 mph torques starts tapering off. Hence it does not feel so strong anymore.
Bolt, gives a little jolt (nothing like 500e) and starts pulling. About 30 mph more torque is released, and it keeps pulling, it keeps going. 40, 60, 80 - the power is still there...

Funny, Bolt feels like my Kia I had previously.
It was Forte5 SX equipped with 1.6 Turbo GDI. It was a tiny, but with a high torque engine. almost 200 lb*ft down from 1750 rpm. Man, it would eat tires.
But above 50 mph it felt somehow weak.
So I tuned it. I thought - well, why not... Supposedly 200 lb*ft became 250, 200 HP became 235-240.
But what mattered was when and how the torque and power were available.
The tuned version felt like Bolt comparing to 500e. It kept pulling past 60, 80, 100 (all mph). It felt unstoppable. I gave up at 110 mph as the turn was coming on the track. The straight was too short. Or so I thought.


So yes, Bolt is overall faster than 500e, but Fiat gives more fun.

I bet Chevy could do very same thing, but they programmed the controller to limit power.


Oh, how do I know about extra torque at those speeds?
Easy.
One thing - the net. You can find how info on torque limitations in lower speeds for both.
Second - driving on wet.
I can start with pedal to the floor or maybe at 80%, have grip all the time until hitting 25 mph with Fiat or about 35 mph with Bolt when all of the sudden I start loosing grip.
Great indication of torque limitations...


sorry for long post
 

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Interesting how the tests don't really bear this out. Every performance test I could find put the 0-30 of both the Bolt and the 500e between 2.7 and 2.9 seconds. Some had the Bolt a tenth quicker and some had it a tenth of a second slower. But they seem almost the same even just in the 0-30. The same is true for the EV-1: it's just a hair over 3.0 which is a little slower than both the Bolt and 500e. So that initial kick might make it feel faster than it is, even to 30 MPH. If the 500e has more kick right away, the Bolt has to be out-accelerating it before 30 MPH in order to make the same 0-30 time.

Mike
 

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I had 500e for about 8000 miles or 11 months.
Bolt is... I compare it a turbocharged engine powered car. There is always some turbo lag. That's what Bolt is.
500e - there is no power build up. You press the accelerator - it gives you all of it. Right away.
In Bolt - I can see that the moment I depress it, say at 60% travel, and power comes, gauge shows 45 kW and it building up to 110 kW and will keep it there. Sport mode will make this happen at a lower travel depth, but overall power build up is faster.
In 500e - I press it and expect 65 kW - it gets there within fraction of a second. I mean, literally - it is less than a second.

Comparing Bolt to 500e - the latter will have better jolt experience.


Now 0-60 - yes, 500e falls with power quite quickly. Till about 40-45 mph it has good pull. Anything above - still goes, but Bolt takes big advantage.
When I did (several...) hard pulls - 500e you feel 0-25 mph is quite strong, more torque is released at 25 mph so it gets even better, but once you pass 35 mph torques starts tapering off. Hence it does not feel so strong anymore.
Bolt, gives a little jolt (nothing like 500e) and starts pulling. About 30 mph more torque is released, and it keeps pulling, it keeps going. 40, 60, 80 - the power is still there...

Funny, Bolt feels like my Kia I had previously.
It was Forte5 SX equipped with 1.6 Turbo GDI. It was a tiny, but with a high torque engine. almost 200 lb*ft down from 1750 rpm. Man, it would eat tires.
But above 50 mph it felt somehow weak.
So I tuned it. I thought - well, why not... Supposedly 200 lb*ft became 250, 200 HP became 235-240.
But what mattered was when and how the torque and power were available.
The tuned version felt like Bolt comparing to 500e. It kept pulling past 60, 80, 100 (all mph). It felt unstoppable. I gave up at 110 mph as the turn was coming on the track. The straight was too short. Or so I thought.


So yes, Bolt is overall faster than 500e, but Fiat gives more fun.

I bet Chevy could do very same thing, but they programmed the controller to limit power.


Oh, how do I know about extra torque at those speeds?
Easy.
One thing - the net. You can find how info on torque limitations in lower speeds for both.
Second - driving on wet.
I can start with pedal to the floor or maybe at 80%, have grip all the time until hitting 25 mph with Fiat or about 35 mph with Bolt when all of the sudden I start loosing grip.
Great indication of torque limitations...


sorry for long post
No need to apologize, it was an informative read, even for someone like me, whose gear head days are long gone. 😁
 

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the Bolt has to be out-accelerating it before 30 MPH in order to make the same 0-30 time.

Mike
That might be, Mike.
I never timed them. Either of them. Kind of pointless number - 0-60, if you ask me.
I said that earlier somewhere, maybe here as well - Bolt is much more "stable, or balanced" in acceleration than 500e.
Yes, I admit, Bolt has much more power and I can feel it. Just the "jolt" experience is not there. I am not complaining about lack of it as it feel safer for the powertrain, but that is something what EVs have, while ICEs do not.

And I think, if I was next to Bolt in 500e and we were to flat out at the very same time, I would suspect 500e would jump out on the initial distance only to be overtaken a second later.

It looks just same as my KIA Forte5 1.6T vs Audi Q5 2.0T. The 2.0 has much more power, although is heavier. In KIA, when I would floor it - it would push you into the seat. Like 500e. Audi, would start pulling gently. Yet, by looking on the speedo and distance traveled - Audi is faster. You just do not feel it.

So in short - yeah, it is kind of boring sometimes...
 

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So, I pushed it several times, at different rates and loads.
No noticeable power change.
I could feel some power fluctuations, but those were grip and torque limiter related (I bet there is some limiter via software as I could feel more acceleration after 35 mph).
Other than that - nothing. I was at about 70% SOC, so enough juice.
It was cold, though, about 5-7 C (40 - 45 F?).

So GregBrew, you are saying EV-1 was even funnier than raw 500e? I never drove Tesla, so I cannot compare, but 500e feels more powerful than Bolt. Sure, above 40 mph Bolt gives more oomph. But from dead stop - it will not even spin tires. I can get some chirp at 30 mph, but dead stop.
TC on or off, Sport on or off - almost same take off.
Boring....
I'd never felt anything like it before, nor have I since. The '97 PbAs would jitter all over the lane if you didn't hold on to the steering wheel like your life depended on it. Mind you, it only did this if you put your foot into it. I put my foot into it A LOT!
 

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Wait, they TONED DOWN the torque steer???
It appears that they (GM) changed the ramp-up speed for maximum torque allowed from the motor, which reduced the torque steer at high accelerations from a stop or low speed. IIRC, the 0-60mph time was reduced a smidge in the '99 NiMHs as a result.
 

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It always strikes me as funny when people complain about torque steer. Like YES when you're flooring it from a stop maybe hold the wheel straight. With your muscles. In your arms. And use your brains to figure out if which way to turn the wheel to keep you in the lane. Or said brains can also be used to let off the throttle slightly.
 

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It always strikes me as funny when people complain about torque steer.
I did not complain.
I found it very amusing and funny. I miss it in Bolt.
None of other cars I ever owned (majority of them FWD) had so much torque steer as Fiat.
The very first time I was a bit surprised how it pulled in a turn under load. But then it was pure fun!!!
 

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I did not complain.
I found it very amusing and funny. I miss it in Bolt.
None of other cars I ever owned (majority of them FWD) had so much torque steer as Fiat.
The very first time I was a bit surprised how it pulled in a turn under load. But then it was pure fun!!!
That's because the Bolt engineers minimized it by using equal length half-shafts. More Torque, less Torque steer, better engineering = better driveability 🙂
 

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More Torque, less Torque steer, better engineering = better driveability 🙂
Nah...
And they took all the fun away. Torque ramps up, is not available at the touch.
The car does not fight you.
Booorinngg....

:)
 

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Right I wasn't calling anybody here out. I meant I have found it funny over the years as I hear different people complain about it. Both in person talking to people and "motoring journalists" publishing reviews on FWD's. Tq steer is just fun. Like a fish tailing 1970 RWD.

I agree I would rather have complete control over the car and fight the tq steer. 95% of the time its not much of a fight. And 95% of the 5% left something is either broken, maladjusted or worn out.
 

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We are the fringe, we are not the general public or the target demographic. So of course, the cars get limiting. Makes perfect sense to me but I don't have to like it.
 

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The Bolt has equal length drive shafts FYI.

Same part number for left and right sides.

The axle stub that goes through the center of the armature is irrelevant as far as torque steer. The CV joints in the axles are in completely symmetrical positions side to side.
 

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The Bolt has equal length drive shafts FYI.

Same part number for left and right sides.

The axle stub that goes through the center of the armature is irrelevant as far as torque steer. The CV joints in the axles are in completely symmetrical positions side to side.
I tried to edit my claim in time, hence the weird post, however since it's too late, I'll leave you with:


"One axle shaft is much longer than the other. While the CV shafts are of equal length, having uneven axle shafts like this does contribute to torque steer in unavoidable ways. In the Bolts I’ve tested, this is quite noticeable"
 

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And again, I don't think any one of us bats an eye when a company slaps a turbo on some econobox and the result is torquesteer, but when a car is designed from the ground up as we were told, and the engineers could have placed things, literally, anywhere they wanted, have a very very noticable amount of torque steer is an odd thing.
 

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Part of the torque steer could be the stability control trying to balance traction on both sides. You will never have the exact same amount of traction on both front wheels so I would say torque steer is inevitable.

Mike
 

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I tried to edit my claim in time, hence the weird post, however since it's too late, I'll leave you with:


"One axle shaft is much longer than the other. While the CV shafts are of equal length, having uneven axle shafts like this does contribute to torque steer in unavoidable ways. In the Bolts I’ve tested, this is quite noticeable"
Just because you notice torque steer in all the Bolts you test doesn't mean it comes from where you think. The Bolt axle configuration is ideal for minimizing torque steer in a transverse mounted setup. The minimal effect caused by differences in torsional stiffness side to side as a result of the intermediate shaft are only transient and not at all what Bolt really suffers from. Torque steer can arise from many other things like scrub radius, alignment, road crowning, and poor traction from the OEM tires.
 
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