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Discussion Starter #1
Good morning everyone,

I followed, researched and studied this forum, youtube, manuals, etc for months before getting my Bolt. And I love it.
The range is enough for my big commute and although I need to charge daily, I have not had the need to charge it in public.
However there is something bugging me.
I know it is winter (-19C) this morning, I know it affects range. I mainly take highways again, I was certain to have everything affecting range.
However my car charges everyday to 225/230km on hilltop reserve (87%)...
Having a publicized range of appt 370km, I was expecting more at 87%. The app says I’m at 47.8 kWh/100km. I still do not understand that ratio yet...
So this is a head scratcher to me. On the dashboard I was +5.0 on technique yesterday and it clearly shows 16% of the battery being eaten by ac/heater...
Am I missing something here?
 

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The hit the range has been taking up here in TO is quite a shocker, isn't it. Sadly, the numbers you are seeing for range line up perfectly with my experience. With hilltop charging off, I'm still only be seeing a range of 245km at 100%.

There have been a few other threads about this, but long story short, this is normal for EVs, not just the Bolt. The climate settings are part of it, but the bigger factor is also just that the battery chemistry itself doesn't fair well in deep cold. It also prevents them from charging as quickly -- I'll see 20kW at a level 3 that should be delivering 40kW.

You'll also see a number of threads on the relationship with highway speed. I don't expect to see 370km doing 120km/h on the 401.
 

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I plan for 140 miles on a 100% charge. This is the minimum I've gotten. Most of my driving is highway miles and in the winter I've averaged about 165 miles. In the Spring and fall I'd expect about 200 and in the summer maybe 195.

My experience says the following factors, from biggest to smallest, affect the range:

1. Driving fast (Above 65 MPH they'll be a sharp decrease in range)
2. Cold weather
3. Aggressive driving

I've never achieved 238 miles on a full battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The hit the range has been taking up here in TO is quite a shocker, isn't it. Sadly, the numbers you are seeing for range line up perfectly with my experience. With hilltop charging off, I'm still only be seeing a range of 245km at 100%.

There have been a few other threads about this, but long story short, this is normal for EVs, not just the Bolt. The climate settings are part of it, but the bigger factor is also just that the battery chemistry itself doesn't fair well in deep cold. It also prevents them from charging as quickly -- I'll see 20kW at a level 3 that should be delivering 40kW.

You'll also see a number of threads on the relationship with highway speed. I don't expect to see 370km doing 120km/h on the 401.

I guess I have to get used to the 250km range as is, which is ok for my needs but obviously would be best to have more. Looking forward for future versions fo this car when the marketed range will be 500km but in winter we'll get 400km.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I plan for 140 miles on a 100% charge. This is the minimum I've gotten. Most of my driving is highway miles and in the winter I've averaged about 165 miles. In the Spring and fall I'd expect about 200 and in the summer maybe 195.

My experience says the following factors, from biggest to smallest, affect the range:

1. Driving fast (Above 65 MPH they'll be a sharp decrease in range)
2. Cold weather
3. Aggressive driving

I've never achieved 238 miles on a full battery.
This is good to know. :)
 

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NY GOM shows anywhere between 265-275 km on full charge (no Hill Top Reserve). I drive aprox 110km per day.

Mind you, I'm mostly on 401 @ 108kmph and have my climate control on. Fan on 2 and heater set to 22C.

Hoping to see better range once the weather improves.
 

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Temperature really affect your range and not so obviously when you think about it. Recent warming from mid 40F to lower 50F the last two days has bumped my range up from 190 to 210 miles. Same commute and traffic patterns, heck, even same rain pattern. But the lack of HVAC for defogging the windows and keeping warm gave me back 20 miles of range. I'd wager getting the EPA rated range when I hit the upper 50F temps in dry weather. Probably more in the summer.
 
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Temperature really affect your range....
It depends on how you drive. Heating the cabin has less of an effect on overall range the faster you drive.

Here is a picture of my current drive cycle. 30kWh for 72.8 miles, which would average out to about 146 miles. My average speed is about 75 MPH. Turning off the climate control only would provide about another 10 miles. Reducing speed only to about 65 MPH would provide another 25 miles.
 

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It depends on how you drive. Heating the cabin has less of an effect on overall range the faster you drive.

Here is a picture of my current drive cycle. 30kWh for 72.8 miles, which would average out to about 146 miles. My average speed is about 75 MPH. Turning off the climate control only would provide about another 10 miles. Reducing speed only to about 65 MPH would provide another 25 miles.

Yup. Folks who spend all their time driving in the city, averaging 15 mph boast about their 300 mile range in summer. If they drive with the heat on in winter they will be gobsmacked. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I cannot complain... my technique is always +3 or above, terrain -1, but -5 for both climate and outside temperature.and today I had more range - probably because of higher outside temperature as per quirkySquirt’s comment...
 

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Out of pure self-hatred I have read this article, in which "Ampera E" got busted by AutoBild in December 2017.

If those are December range figures for all cars listed, it would mean that other EV's do not suffer that much of a range loss in cold weather.

https://insideevs.com/tested-real-world-range-of-8-of-europes-most-popular-electric-cars/

And the mystery of the Ioniq remains: how come this cool-looking, competitively priced car, and - apparently - a good winter runner only sells a few dozen examples a month in the US?
 

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And the mystery of the Ioniq remains: how come this cool-looking, competitively priced car, and - apparently - a good winter runner only sells a few dozen examples a month in the US?
Because Hyundai isn't shipping very many to the U.S. - and never has. The Ioniq EV was only available in the L.A. area for half of 2017 - and they all sold out. They also had a *fantastic* "all-in" lease deal for about $250/mo, which included unlimited miles and electricity reimbursement. Imagine if you used the car for business and drove 500 miles/wk : 25,000 a year. That's a great lease deal.

My *guess* is because they realized their gaffe when it only had a range of 124 miles. My guess is that they didn't think that Tesla would hit their model 3 target date (correct) or that Chevy would hit their Bolt target (incorrect). Also, Chevy was coy as to the actual range/specs of the vehicle until pretty close to the release date. And Nissan didn't start talking about the LEAF2 until the Bolt was almost available (or maybe even after it was first sold - I can't remember exactly). So Hyundai got blindsided (the EV was released in Korea in mid-2016).

I think that once reality set in, they decided to leave the U.S. BEV market mainly to Chevy/Nissan/Tesla until they could get a higher-range model of the BEV to market. I remember that when Hyundai rolled out the Ioniq EV (and its 124 miles range) to the press back in 2016, they almost immediately mentioned that it would soon ('by 2018') have a longer range model ("over 200 miles")

So they let Nissan and Chevy battle it out in the U.S., and shipped the BEV elsewhere (including Canada, where Bolts were few and far between). The PHEV showed up earlier in non-U.S. markets as well (it showed up in the U.S. just a couple of weeks ago or so).

The 'conventional' Ioniq hybrid had been available throughout most of 2017 in the U.S. (?since March or so?). Heck, my sister bought one to replace her Prius - she loves it. She "grandmas" when driving around town (that what she calls it) and often runs in electric-only mode, even though it isn't a plug-in. (Obviously, only for a few miles at a time.) But she says that she can go shopping for food and the gas engine doesn't get used (I think her market is about 2 miles away).

Anyhow - the sales figures for the Ioniq BEV are so bad because Hyundai hasn't been trying to sell them here. Personally, I think that a 124-mile model, combined with a 180-200-mile model, would be a pretty good seller. Unfortunately for Hyundai, Nissan introduced the 150-mile range LEAF2 at about the same price as the 124-mile Ioniq EV.
 

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^^ all true, but somehow people just don't seem to like Ioniq, even in its non-plug version.

Where we live, they ask $20K for the Ioniq, yet I haven't seen one on the road. The Prius is quite a bit more expensive, but people do buy them.
 

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Very interesting comparison. I'd love to know a bit more about the conditions (e.g. exact temp, cruising speed, terrain, etc.) to orient with my own observations.

While, as a Bolt owner, I need to get comfortable with the fact that it is far from the most efficient EV out there, I do think it is delivering more value as a functional car than other models. It's a utilitarian hatchback with ample head and leg space in all seats, and cargo area that is actually good for hauling stuff.

I don't think I'd want to sacrifice any of this for a better drag coefficient. If I'm looking longingly at the performance of any of the other models, it would be on account of things like the heated windshield and heat pump system of the e-Golf.
 

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47.8 kWh/100km is a number I've only seen in city driving. Even at -23C with CC at 23C on the 401 at 100km/h I was seeing 29 kWh/100km. However, going slowly or the stop and go of city traffic causes a big hit to efficiency in the cold. Some of the time you're burning lots of energy heating the car but not moving at all. So if your numbers are from mixed city/highway or commuter traffic then they make sense.

At the other end of the spectrum, in the early fall a highway trip to beyond Kingston got over 400km on a charge.
 

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This thread sent me down the rabbit hole a bit, and I came out with this:

http://www.opel.de/fahrzeuge/ampera-e/uebersicht/partials/reichweite/reichweitensimulator.html

The three boxes are:

Speed Profile -- low (niedrig) to very high (sehr hoch)
Ambient temperature -- -20C to 40C
Heating/Cooling -- on (an) and off (aus)

When I pop in combos of conditions that I have been seeing lately, it is yielding very accurate estimated ranges. E.g. very high speed profile (i.e. highway driving) at -10C with the heating on estimates 217km of range (27kWh/100km), which is about what I have been getting in trips on the 401 in those conditions.

edit: Can't stop playing around with it. If you compare the high and very high speed profiles in ideal weather (20C), you see how much speed hurts the range. Looks like I'll be taking Hwy 7 to Ottawa from here on out :p
 
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