[Packard V8]

Somehow, I totally missed this important piece of information.

FWIW, I went to the VW website and scanning pages of fluff, never saw RWD mentioned. I went back and read most of the ID.4 posts on here and didn't notice anyone who drove it mentioning the ID.4 is RWD.

That explains the low regen levels and the lack of true One-Pedal. In slick road conditions, too much RWD regen would result in an immediate skid.

Moot for us, as we would only consider the AWD version, which won't be available until late next year.

jack vines

 

[NorBC_Bolt]

It also explains why they went with rear drums. The rear braking is already being assisted by the motor. The intended use case of the ID.4 is not on the track, so beefy brakes in the rear aren't needed.

 

[p7wang]

The FWD RWD debate is important in ICE, not so true in EV. Tesla went with RWD and AWD and looks like so did VW.

 

[XJ12]

and didn't notice anyone who drove it mentioning the ID.4 is RWD.

we bought one last month and knew about the RWD.

The first two trims that I've seen for the VW ID.4 are RWD only.

 

[Packard V8]

The FWD RWD debate is important in ICE, not so true in EV.

Your opinion, not universally shared. A search both here and on sites specific to the BMW i3, several mention feeling RWD with regenerative braking was unsafe on slick roads.

FWIW, I know from experience, on slick roads too much regenerative braking with FWD can also cause problems, especially on downhill curves. Slick roads are the only time we choose D in the Bolt; less is more when traction is problematic.

So drivers won't have to think is the most likely reason VW chose to limit regen.

jack vines

 

[NortonCommando]

The FWD RWD debate is important in ICE, not so true in EV. ...

Why is that?
Are you saying RWD EV's don't get stuck in ice or snow conditions?
I've been stuck for the last time in a RWD. When it happens your choices are forward or backward.
I'll still get stuck behind them...
With a FWD car you can usually claw your way out of being stuck.

And if you really want to up your winter driving game get Winter Tires.
Not old school snow tires but new gen Winter Tires that test great on ice and snow.

 

[p7wang]

Your opinion, not universally shared. A search both here and on sites specific to the BMW i3, several mention feeling RWD with regenerative braking was unsafe on slick roads.

FWIW, I know from experience, on slick roads too much regenerative braking with FWD can cause problems, especially on downhill curves. Slick roads are the only time we choose D in the Bolt; less is more when traction is problematic.

jack vines

It is obvious that EV is better balanced vs ICE.

Any complaint from Tesla RWD and VW ID.3/4 RWD owners? It is not like these people do not exist, so why use it as example? Could it be that BMW just designed the i3 not as well?

Yep, more to do with tires. Winter tire 2WD does better in snow vs AWD with summer tires. Tires are cheaper than AWD system.

 

[jefro]

I had the i3 and trusted a lot more on slippery roads than the Bolt. I'd much prefer the safety and drivability of a RWD over any FWD. I could crawl up a dirt hill at 2 mph in the i3. I have to go like crazy in the Bolt to maintain traction.

FWD is just the devils creation. Should be banned.

 

[Packard V8]

I had the i3 and trusted a lot more on slippery roads than the Bolt. I'd much prefer the safety and drivability of a RWD over any FWD. I could crawl up a dirt hill at 2 mph in the i3. I have to go like crazy in the Bolt to maintain traction.

Yes, on an uphill climb, the weight transfers to the rear so RWD is often superior traction; no surprise there.

FWD is just the devils creation. Should be banned.

Not everyone agrees with you. I learned to drive on RWD, but when I moved to the northern tier RWD was like a pig on ice. I switched to Saab. They were so much better than RWD in slippery conditions, it was a revelation. The worse the weather and the road conditions, the better the Saabs were. I cried when GM discontinued production of Saabs.

Bottom line, given a choice, I'll always choose FWD over RWD. Up here, AWD is the real answer, but currently we own the FWD Bolt and an RWD work truck. The AWD Saab SUV finally went away because we never drove it unless blizzard conditions.

jack vines

 

[EVolved]

It is obvious that EV is better balanced vs ICE.

Any complaint from Tesla RWD and VW ID.3/4 RWD owners? It is not like these people do not exist, so why use it as example? Could it be that BMW just designed the i3 not as well?

Yep, more to do with tires. Winter tire 2WD does better in snow vs AWD with summer tires. Tires are cheaper than AWD system.

I've had all 4 different single drive variants in the snowbelt and IMO, all things being equal such as snow tires of similar width, ground clearance, similar weather conditions, weight distribution, my preference is RWD EV. It's a close second with RWD ICEV and FWD ICEV about equal. FWD EV was in a distant fourth place and is so inferior, I would never recommend one for snow country. It comes down to manageable torque and how well the traction control is calibrated. My FWD ICEV was quite a while ago and my RWD ICEV's were BMW's so not a real fair comparison between the two but I can't see a FWD ICEV improving drastically enough to overtake the RWD EV. I've never owned an AWD.

 

[Packard V8]

It comes down to manageable torque and how well the traction control is calibrated.

For discussion, what was your FWD EV?

FWIW, the Bolt has the most manageable torque control of any of the dozens of vehicles we've owned over the past sixty years. Even with that, it's not as good in snow as a 1970s Saab.

As to traction control calibration, the manufacturers have cheaped out as computer tech has enabled them to piggy-back on anti-lock brake technology instead of more expensive geartrain limited slip. Today, most cars use the anti-lock brake sensors to determine a wheel is spinning and applies the brake to stop it. However, if the other drive wheel also starts spinning, applying the brake to that wheel and with both drive wheels braked progress stops. They try to modulate the on-off of braking, but that's doesn't always work in real time.

jack vines

 

[atc98092]

If one read many of the reviews that have talked about the ID.4, then yes, one was aware it was RWD. For the general public, no, probably not common knowledge. But I'm also of the opinion that it's not as critical with an EV, since the weight distribution isn't as nose heavy as an ICE FWD.

VW went with drum brakes for multiple reasons. One is cost savings. But perhaps more importantly, since an EV uses its mechanical brakes far less than a regular ICE power car, the brake hardware doesn't get exercised very much, and disc calipers are more prone to corrosion and damage from lack of use than drums.

 

[jefro]

When I stomped on the gas peddle in the i3 it would zoom past the noisy rats with Japan rockets.

When I stomp on the Bolt gas peddle the front end wanders all over with no traction.

When I used high regen in the i3 the back would tell me but let me control the steering.

When I use high regen on the Bolt I can't steer and it goes right past the turn.

I guess stomping and high regen could be my fault.

When I stomp on the Corvette gas peddle and turn off traction control the back end swaps with front in 1/4 of a second.

 

[Packard V8]

But perhaps more importantly, since an EV uses its mechanical brakes far less than a regular ICE power car, the brake hardware doesn't get exercised very much, and disc calipers are more prone to corrosion and damage from lack of use than drums.

Not sure I'd agree with all of that. Four-and-a-half-years in the northern tier where liquid magnesium chloride is applied to city streets; we drive in L 99% of use, go weeks without touching the brake pedal and our Bolt disc brakes look and function as new.

jack vines

 

[Packard V8]

When I stomped on the gas peddle in the i3 it would zoom past the noisy rats with Japan rockets.

When I stomp on the Bolt gas peddle the front end wanders all over with no traction.

When I used high regen in the i3 the back would tell me but let me control the steering.

When I use high regen on the Bolt I can't steer and it goes right past the turn.

I guess stomping and high regen could be my fault.

When I stomp on the Corvette gas peddle and turn off traction control the back end swaps with front in 1/4 of a second.

Obviously, your driving techniques are not suited to the Bolt. Ours are; our Bolt is the easiest car to modulate the acceleration and regenerative braking we've ever driven and that includes a lot of seat time in an i3.

jack vines

 

[atc98092]

Not sure I'd agree with all of that. Four-and-a-half-years in the northern tier where liquid magnesium chloride is applied to city streets; we drive in L 99% of use, go weeks without touching the brake pedal and our Bolt disc brakes look and function as new.

jack vines

That's what VW stated, although I'm not quoting them. I have certain seen frozen calipers in the past, especially for cars that weren't driven often.

 

[evtinker]

There can be other reasons FWD is preferred or necessary. In my case I want to be able to tow my EV behind my RV eventually. None of the current EVs can be flat towed, so a dolly and a FWD EV are the only choice.

 

[cwerdna]

I'd known for a very long time and that AWD was coming.

 

[EVmunkey]

I did know that the ID4 was RWD however I kind of liked that because of the very tiny turning circle they could achieve as a result.

However, I did watch a video that noted the issue with regen on a RWD vehicle being less effective because of the very issue of skidding on slippery surfaces.

I spent some time in a very snowy part of Wyoming years ago and I swore that if I had to live through another winter it would be with AWD and studded snow tires. Second choice would be FWD with studded snow tires. My RWD car would just go sideways with any application of throttle on an icy street. FWD just pulls the car straight. Sure there is still limited traction but the weight on the front helps a lot. The same was true for my Beetle in the 70's. It just was able to get traction because the weight was on the driving wheels but it still was not as stable as any of my FWD cars.

The adulation of RWD by enthusiast publications stems from the fun of a light car kicking out its tail in a turn when throttle is applied. That is a limited use case and is applicable to few drivers and almost never in slippery conditions.

Real world results can be seen with any number of videos no circulating of young men/idiots spinning out on straight, dry roads in their Mustangs and Challengers.

I do wish that Chevy had offered AWD in the Bolt brothers as it would make it perfect for me.

 

[p7wang]