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Are you interested in an upgraded on board charger?

  • No, I'm not interested at all.

    Votes: 10 28.6%
  • Yes, but only if it was included in the base price of the car from the factory.

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Yes, I'm interested in a dealer or aftermarket charger upgrade.

    Votes: 22 62.9%

  • Total voters
    35
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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering if anyone would consider an upgrade offered by Chevy or the aftermarket for an upgraded charger in the car. This would allow you to make use of up to 80 amp Level 2 charging, which would be almost as fast as the 24kW DCFC.

The benefit here is you can install a faster/larger EVSE in your home if you have a large electrical service, and more faster options available on the road. The 80 Amp Level 2 EVSE is a major cost savings over a DCFC for destinations and businesses that might consider adding EV charging to their premises in the future.

What would an on board 80 amp charger be worth to you?
 

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+1 for faster charging - Tesla offers an upgraded charger for $750 installed at the factory

standard charge rate is 48 amps (60 amp EVSE circuit)
upgrade is 72 amps (90 amp EVSE circuit)

color me interested.
 

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it shouid be noted the most common > 32 amp chargers on the market are clipper creek with 40, 60, and 70 amp chargers and the Tesla Wall Chargers which can be used via the j-adapter Tesla to J-1772 pigtail

Tesla chargers can charge at up to 80 amps (100 amp EVSE circuit breaker)

virtually nothing goes any higher and the J-1772 standard tops out at 80 amps - The Tesla chargers are the only 'affordable' chargers in this range at $500 for a configurable charger up to 80 amps (12 amps the lowest setting).
 

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rather than upgrade the car's charger - I suggest making a 20,000 watt Fast DC charger for home use and using the car's existing DCFast support - no modification to the car required - just make a DCFast charger than use 240 volt 60-80 amp home circuit - it would. then work for other DCFast cars and no modifications required to the car.
 

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and for the record...

240 volts * 80 amps = 19,200 watts - that would be a very nice home charging rate for a 100 amp circuit

make it adjustable from 60-100 amps for a range of

11,520 watts (48 amps @ 240) - 19,200 watts (80 amp @ 240)

anywhere from 1.5 times to 2.5 times faster than 32 amp J-1772 charger.

also by doing it as a DCFast home charger you don't need to "hack" the car's software to know about a "bigger" charger.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I was just going off the 80 amp J-1772 maximum spec for this post, seems like some options might open up if there was some demand. The main difference between the EVSE power levels is the contactor inside and the heavier gauge cord, so the cost difference for the on-premise equipment should be fairly negligible as they move up the amperage ranks.

I figured it would make adding say 4 or 10 chargers instead of just one more feasible for retailers or restaurants in the future. Usually this would be implemented with several chargers on one branch circuit like Tesla does with the Supercharger bays now, so a power sharing arrangement with more cars=less amperage per car.

Here is a nice summary on the Caltech Pasadena installation of 54, 80A EVSE's
. Very impressive stuff!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That's what I mean, those things retail at $7,500 a pop, and a 80A L2 EVSE in bulk could probably be around $500/each. If I wanted 10 stalls at my chain restaurant, retail or parking garage - that's a big difference in capital outlay. From a customer facing business perspective, the Level 2 seems like a winning option perhaps.

From a charge at home standpoint, I guess if the upgraded in-car charger and the DCFC are similar price, it's a wash. The benefit for the home user is that DCFC would be a one time expense for multiple EV use. Do you think they can get the cost on a AC-DC 25kW DCFC power supply down to the $1,000 dollar level in the future? Do those Delta DCFC boost the voltage up internally if they are installed on a 208 or 240V circuit? I 'm not sure what type of power supply is inside them. The data sheet lists the lower voltages as input options, so I guess it pretty much has to be a buck-boost topology.
 

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the Bosche one specially supports single phase 240 volts as a setting…I see no problem providing 200 volt 80 amp DC Current - unless for some reason DCFast requires 480 volts - in which case you can feed it 240/80 and convert it to 480/40 amps - same number of watts…

$1000 home charger for DCFast @ 19,xxx watts would be awesome.

the Tesla Wall Charger is already an 80 amp L2 chargers (J-1772) for $500 retail.

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x_3-wall-connector.html?sku=1050067-00-E

so wholesale it's got to be something like $350 actual costs - it's a J-1772 L2 charger with the wrong connector on it.
 

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$1000 home charger for DCFast @ 19,xxx watts would be awesome.
I like your concept, but what would be the true practicality of home DC Fast charging?
For someone that has 4 or more 60kW+ EV's parked in their home stable, it makes some sense. But most
EV owners sleep at night, when many utilities offer El-Cheapo usage rates. A commodity 40Amp charger
will fill an empty 60kW battery in 10 hours.

Also, the vast majority of Bolt (or any EV with 150+ mile range) owners are not depleting their batteries
every day, so the actual charge-to-full on a 40AMP would be significantly less every night. Therefore, don't you think the
market for such a device, excluding the uber-wealthy, would be negligible and thus not a viable solution from a business model POV?

What may be far more productive, is a 240V 120AMP+ DC fast charging single subsystem that has 10 cable cords
connected to a single device. In an multi-unit residential or business environment a owner can invest in ONE
unit. 10 EV's could park and plug-in simultaneously, without the hassle of waiting, and going back out to relocate their cars, etc. The unit would have the intelligence to charge one EV after another in the same fashion as a single family would overnight in their private garage. The beauty being since this "DC Fast Charge Octopus" is a Fast charge for each, all cars can be topped off in a single night but have the SFR garage convenience.

Concentrating on this type of solution would remove the "I ain't got no convenient charging at my apartment complex or job" excuses, and perhaps better grow the EV adoption rate.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's a cool idea! It'd be some kind of "flower petal" parking arrangement, since DCFC cord length maximum seems to be 10ft. It would be neat to see a bunch of these little EV islands everywhere!
 

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Presumably AC fast charging impacts longetivity as much as DC fast charging, since post OBCM it's all the same to the battery? I understand DC fast charge will kill your range to the tune of a few percent per year, depending on usage.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I think so, the higher the charge rate, the more heat generated during intercalation, etc. Do we have data on if a "low power" 25kw DC charger creates enough waste heat to cause active battery cooling to take place? There's a guy that almost exclusively uses DCFC for his Spark EV on one of those forums that steadfastly maintains he's not seen any negative impact to date, but time will be the ultimate test for us.
 

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Evidence so far seems to indicate that worrying about longevity is a waste of our time, but it doesn't stop anybody :nerd:

For 99% of my driving fast charging is unnecessary. The main determinant is charging location, like I'm going to some place and would like a boost while I'm there. For example this weekend we're thinking of going to San Francisco which has lots of chargers, but none near where we are thinking of going. Having said that I shouldn't need a charge at all to get back, but I wouldn't mind the option to feel comfortable.

Fast charging is just for long road trips, certainly not at home where 32A is plenty. For 80A I'd need to replace my 6 gauge with 4 or less.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Same here regarding the @home charging... But the two major cities around here are about a 60-100 mile journey one way, depending on what area of the city we'd like to visit. If we could get 60+ miles per hour of charge while we ate dinner instead of 25 miles/hour, it would make a big difference in comfort, ability for a few side detours, etc. It would be the difference from just topping up at the destination versus needing to stop at a fast charger for a few minutes during the trip just to put some comfort margin in on the way there, or back.
 

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What I like about it is the observation that it's almost as fast as DC Fast charging for a fraction of the cost. Given this, why did the industry go to DCFC? My guess is the cost/difficulty in inverting [email protected], but maybe that's not so much an issue with glycol cooling?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If the Tesla Option is only $750, it must not be that expensive for the onboard chargers in general from a manufacturing point of view. One option I thought might be attractive for GM is just develop a kit for dealers with a 2nd OEM charger, mounting plate, wiring harness and coolant hose adapters. They benefit from a second revenue stream on a production part, the dealers get something extra to sell, and we get 64 amp charging, which isn't half bad!
 

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Bumping this thread.
I have a question about the DC fast charge. How feasible would it be to build an adapter so it would be possible to use Tesla 80A destination chargers through the fast charge socket of the Bolt? Would be a good 17-19kw of power.

Something like the currently available Teslatap adapter, but for the DC plug.
Anyone with technical knowledge can explain why its not possible or if it is?
Thanks
 

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Bumping this thread.
I have a question about the DC fast charge. How feasible would it be to build an adapter so it would be possible to use Tesla 80A destination chargers through the fast charge socket of the Bolt? Would be a good 17-19kw of power.

Something like the currently available Teslatap adapter, but for the DC plug.
Anyone with technical knowledge can explain why its not possible or if it is?
Thanks
Wouldn't be a simple adapter. Would need a rectifier to convert AC to DC. And a step up transformer to get to the 400 V.
 
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