Chevy Bolt EV Forum banner
21 - 40 of 97 Posts

·
Super Moderator
2022 Bolt EUV Premier
Joined
·
700 Posts
Can it be done by yourself without breaking the law? Yes. But you better be sure you know what you're doing. Can you do it without a permit? Not legally, but unlikely to ever be found out. But I stress again, you really need to know what you're doing when messing with electricity.
 

·
Super Moderator
2022 Bolt EUV Premier
Joined
·
700 Posts
Plug will require GFCI now.
Hardware uses GFCI in EVSE.
Yes, 3 wire plus ground and bonding will have to be correct.
The electrician that wired my JuiceBox 40 (provided by my utility but it had to be installed by them) only used three wires. My hot tub (the device that used to use this circuit) required four wires, but that was the device, not a code requirement. Now, the tub was installed in 1990 when my house was new. Perhaps the code has changed since then. That's why I say you have to know what you're doing if you do it yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,869 Posts
The four wires in 220v circuit are
red=hot
black=hot
white=neutral
bare/green=ground
netural and ground are somewhat interchangeable
No
the two hots, being 180° out of phase with each other, take turns being the neutral.
Yes, mostly.
Neutral is not needed for a 220 / 240v circuit.
Yes.
Plug will require GFCI now.
GFCI breaker is best. Need a new 240v breaker anyway.
Yes, 3 wire plus ground and bonding will have to be correct.
No.
 

·
Registered
2021 Bolt LT, 2021 Kona EV SEL
Joined
·
716 Posts
Get 100 amps installed so you can get the max 80 amp L2 EVSE possible to future proof is my suggestion if you're going to be spending a ton of money taking it away from the breaker panel.

If you're already spending over $1k, go all the way. Can also charge 2 cars at 40 amps too at that point.
 

·
Registered
2021 Bolt LT
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Might be easier to get some dc charge nearby and just top off your car at 120VAC.
It's east Texas. Nearest DCFC is in Dallas 80 miles away. East Texas is awful if you get off the interstate. If we stay the weekend the car has enough charge to get back to Waco. It's only an issue if we are only staying overnight.

netural and ground are somewhat interchangeable
As others have pointed out, this may function but is not code compliant or safe.

Can it be done by yourself without breaking the law? Yes. But you better be sure you know what you're doing. Can you do it without a permit? Not legally, but unlikely to ever be found out. But I stress again, you really need to know what you're doing when messing with electricity.
This is Texas, she lives in the county outside of any city. She can do anything she wants to the house, no permits required. If I do it in my house I don't need a license. I would need one to do it in her's.

I built my own house, wired it to the 1996 code. I went down to get a permit I was told: "The county engineer can give you a septic permit. But, we ain't got no other permits to give out."
 

·
Registered
2021 Bolt LT
Joined
·
113 Posts
It's east Texas. Nearest DCFC is in Dallas 80 miles away. East Texas is awful if you get off the interstate. If we stay the weekend the car has enough charge to get back to Waco. It's only an issue if we are only staying overnight.



As others have pointed out, this may function but is not code compliant or safe.



This is Texas, she lives in the county outside of any city. She can do anything she wants to the house, no permits required. If I do it in my house I don't need a license. I would need one to do it in her's.

I built my own house, wired it to the 1996 code. I went down to get a permit I was told: "The county engineer can give you a septic permit. But, we ain't got no other permits to give out."
The problem is anything you change in the breaker box will show up when you try to sell your house.Most people will have the house inspected before buying.Also any change you do in the breaker box will noticed by an electrician if you have to call one.When i do want to sell my house i will remove any modifications in the breaker box before inspection
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,396 Posts
The NEC code is easy to view online.
A 240VAC outlet has to have 4 lugs. If it is in the listed areas it will also need a GFCI breaker. That of couse is odd because the evse by design has a gfci in it but you have no way to test it which is a normal requirement of a gfci. If you hard wire it then you simply need to comply with the approved installation instructions. They should be clear enough to a professional

You can do what you want in most places in Texas. Even in the cities you may be allowed to work on your homestead with a permit. You can go to your home center and usually there is a person there or even weekend classes that teach you how to install this stuff.

Yes, unpermitted work could affect a sale later and subject you to claims.
 

·
Registered
2021 Bolt LT Cayenne Orange Metallic
Joined
·
428 Posts
GFCI breaker is best. Need a new 240v breaker anyway.
For my hard wired CC LCS-20, I decided to use a conventional breaker. The CC, as I think most if not all EVSEs, has built in GFCI protection. Somewhere I had read that the two GFCIs might not play well together, which may be BS. At a minimum, my understanding of our local code, is that a GFCI is not required as long as it's a hard wired installation of something that has its own GFCI protection.

I also installed a heavy duty 30 amp 240 v shutoff switch just inside the service entrance to our garage. I believe a shutoff is required within sight of the EVSE. The hard wired CC has no switch either. I labeled it too for emergency purposes.

AFAIK my installation is entirely to code, but when we eventually sell the house, we shall see. 😉. I will make sure at that time before completing a sale.

I realize that I'm piggybacking on the OP, but perhaps my situation and the feedback of others will provide a bit of useful information.
 

·
Registered
2021 Bolt Premier
Joined
·
3,953 Posts
The four wires in 220v circuit are
red=hot
black=hot
white=neutral
bare/green=ground
netural and ground are somewhat interchangeable
"netural (sic) and ground are somewhat interchangeable"

Neutral and Ground should only be bonded together at the main electrical panel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
For my hard wired CC LCS-20, I decided to use a conventional breaker. The CC, as I think most if not all EVSEs, has built in GFCI protection. Somewhere I had read that the two GFCIs might not play well together, which may be BS. At a minimum, my understanding of our local code, is that a GFCI is not required as long as it's a hard wired installation of something that has its own GFCI protection.

I also installed a heavy duty 30 amp 240 v shutoff switch just inside the service entrance to our garage. I believe a shutoff is required within sight of the EVSE. The hard wired CC has no switch either. I labeled it too for emergency purposes.

AFAIK my installation is entirely to code, but when we eventually sell the house, we shall see. 😉. I will make sure at that time before completing a sale.

I realize that I'm piggybacking on the OP, but perhaps my situation and the feedback of others will provide a bit of useful information.
2 GFCIs absolutely can fight w each other, though from what Ive heard, they don't always. Id imagine it depends on their circuitry in the plug.

I had a dedicated 20a line to the deck on the back of my house, so when I got my bolt, I ran off that line (there's a junction box inside where the outdoor cable transitions to regular wire), to put a 20a plug in the driveway for charging w the factory charger. When I flipped the breaker on after install, new gfci plug in driveway kept tripping, which made me remember that the deck plug that I never use (only other thing on that breaker) was also gfci. Switched to normal plugs w gfci breaker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
I've heard of problems with a plug GFCI but I don't remember hearing of a problem with a breaker GFCI.
Yup, no problems w the breaker, but it's the only gfci device on the circuit now. Worth noting, when I realized I had 2 gfci plugs on the circuit, and that I'd have to change the setup, I just left the deck plug disconnected so that I could use the driveway plug to charge the car (so the circuit was 1 regular breaker, supplying a single gfci plug in driveway). Neither that setup, nor now, w a gfci breaker, and 2 outdoor regular plugs, had an issue w the gfci circuit in the factory charger. Only time there was ever an issue was w 2 gfci plugs on teh same breaker (but that was my own fault for forgetting that the deck plug was a gfci)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Correct, with the slight exception that technically the hots are never "neutral" (meaning it would measure 0v to ground). But fundamentally correct that the circuit is just using the difference betwenn +120 and -120 to get it's 240v potential
Um, I guess I can't speak to your jurisdiction, but a) neutral and ground are not interchangeable as far as building code goes. While they both do physically ground to the panel, the reason the ground is uncoated is so that if the wire sheathing is ever pierced by metal, there is a far greater chance of it shorting and tripping the breaker. B) Neutral is not needed for a 220 / 240v circuit. If you are wiring a new outlet, I'd absolutely use 3 conductor wire (ground is not counted as a conductor) in case you want to use it for something else down the road, but in the example given of using an existing wire, it is perfectly okay to just have +120 and -120 hot lines (plus the ground) supplied to the box, and 240v plug. Can't plug a stove into that outlet, as it's 120v circuits won't work, but if you're trying to wire up a stove in your driveway, you may have larger issues. :)
Some additional information to point out:

1)A neutral is intended as a current carrying conductor.
2) A ground today is not intended as a current carrying conductor! It’s intended to place bonded equipment at the same ground plane for shorting and breaker/ fuse tripping events.
Where older stoves and dryers had three wire circuits and used the ground as a return to power small 110vac loads - this is no longer done for newly installed equipment. They are both grounded conductors as you point out but only one is designed to carry a continuous current.
 

·
Registered
2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premier
Joined
·
20 Posts
Bolt can't take more than 12A L1. I have an L1 portable EVSE that can supply up to 16A, but the Bolt will never accept more than 12A, and the circuit I have it connected to is only 15A anyway, so I leave the Bolt at 8A and call it good enough.

Supposed to be getting an L2 EVSE installed here at some point, but the contractor has been slow. Sent them all the documentation they need, so we'll see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Um, I guess I can't speak to your jurisdiction, but a) neutral and ground are not interchangeable as far as building code goes. While they both do physically ground to the panel, the reason the ground is uncoated is so that if the wire sheathing is ever pierced by metal, there is a far greater chance of it shorting and tripping the breaker. B) Neutral is not needed for a 220 / 240v circuit. If you are wiring a new outlet, I'd absolutely use 3 conductor wire (ground is not counted as a conductor) in case you want to use it for something else down the road, but in the example given of using an existing wire, it is perfectly okay to just have +120 and -120 hot lines (plus the ground) supplied to the box, and 240v plug. Can't plug a stove into that outlet, as it's 120v circuits won't work, but if you're trying to wire up a stove in your driveway, you may have larger issues. :)
I know they aren’t truly interchangeably, it’s a simple way explain to the general public. Like how they are installed in the breaker box bus.
Like telling someone that 220v lines are out of phase from each other. In reality they are but are considered to be single phase lines. It’s a case of a lot of knowledge overwhelms those that are not electricians.
 
21 - 40 of 97 Posts
Top