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Battery replaced and then fails in 3 weeks.

3265 Views 17 Replies 4 Participants Last post by RacerX00, Jan 22, 2022

iriminage

Discussion Starter · Jan 21, 2022

I‘ve had a 2018 Chevy Bolt for close to 4 years now. As a Uber/Lyft driver I’ve put 130.000 miles on it.
The original battery has worked fine and there was no discernible loss of charge. As part of the recall my battery module was replaced three weeks ago. I was really happy with the extended range it gave me. 260 miles on the highway and over 300 miles driving around town.
However three weeks ago the engine light came on and the reduced propulsion message appeared.
After that it would only let me charge to 95 miles. It would then say that I was fully charged.
I took it to the Chevy dealer and after running a test on it they said it was a faulty battery.
Since it’s covered by the new warranty they’ll replace it at no cost to me. They said it would take a couple of weeks to get the new battery. My car is my source of income. I’m losing on average of hundred dollars a day. They‘ve given me a free rental but it can’t be used for rideshare driving.
I called GM customer service and told them they are responsible for my loss of income..
Waiting to hear back.
Dan

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p7wang

· #2 · Jan 21, 2022 (Edited)

iriminage said:
I‘ve had a 2018 Chevy Bolt for close to 4 years now. As a Uber/Lyft driver I’ve put 130.000 miles on it.
The original battery has worked fine and there was no discernible loss of charge. As part of the recall my battery module was replaced three weeks ago. I was really happy with the extended range it gave me. 260 miles on the highway and over 300 miles driving around town.
However three weeks ago the engine light came on and the reduced propulsion message appeared.
After that it would only let me charge to 95 miles. It would then say that I was fully charged.
I took it to the Chevy dealer and after running a test on it they said it was a faulty battery.
Since it’s covered by the new warranty they’ll replace it at no cost to me. They said it would take a couple of weeks to get the new battery. My car is my source of income. I’m losing on average of hundred dollars a day. They‘ve given me a free rental but it can’t be used for rideshare driving.
I called GM customer service and told them they are responsible for my loss of income..
Waiting to hear back.
Dan

Highly doubt 'loss of income claim' will get anywhere. For rideshare, you can actually rent a car that allows you to do rideshare. Do a search for 'rental for rideshare'.

Contact the EV Concierge to confirm that GM will reimburse you $46/day. You are responsible for insurance. They're suppose to pay for gas too but not sure what the rep will say when you submit the gas receipts for reimbursement. :0

BTW, if you are doing rideshare, my recommendation is to have to Bolts so that one is always at home L2 charging. The next best thing if you do not have battery swapping.

Actually, if you had battery swap tech in your EV, this would have been a non-issue for you right now.

enslay

· #3 · Jan 21, 2022

p7wang said:
Highly doubt 'loss of income claim' will get anywhere. For rideshare, you can actually rent a car that allows you to do rideshare. Do a search for 'rental for rideshare'.

Contact the EV Concierge to confirm that GM will reimburse you $46/day. You are responsible for insurance. They're suppose to pay for gas too but not sure what the rep will say when you submit the gas receipts for reimbursement. :0

BTW, if you are doing rideshare, my recommendation is to have to Bolts so that one is always at home L2 charging. The next best thing if you do not have battery swapping. Actually, if you had battery swap tech in your EV, this would have been a non-issue for you right now.

Ah yes... you may not have to change the oil but now you have to pay rent/subscription on the battery. It may be good for Uber drivers or that rare long distance trip, but that really sucks for most drivers!

Reactions: 1

RacerX00

· #4 · Jan 22, 2022

enslay said:
Ah yes... you may not have to change the oil but now you have to pay rent/subscription on the battery. It may be good for Uber drivers or that rare long distance trip, but that really sucks for most drivers!

Doesn't have to be all or nothing. Could be you just have a battery that you could swap out but own. Similar to propane tanks for gas grills. Some people own their own tanks and get them refilled, others do swaps at the super market or something.

I just think the idea that the battery is an inseparable component from the car doesn't have to be. These are choices we're making in real time if we do end up there. Sure for our generation of cars they're all figuring out engineering things like coolant lines, etc. but the batteries themselves are no different than any other lithium ion battery you can or cannot replace on your own. Your iPhone battery is sealed, by choice, not because it's impossible to design an interchangeable battery.

Even if our passenger cars have permanent batteries, they should be semi-permanent in the long-term as bolt-on swaps. Not that we get to make those decisions, can't even find a phone worthwhile with a battery you can access, not even dev phones. I'd imagine most passenger cars will end up this way too and they'll milk the firewalls, coolant, etc. as an excuse to get away with it for decades.

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enslay

· #5 · Jan 22, 2022 (Edited)

RacerX00 said:
Doesn't have to be all or nothing. Could be you just have a battery that you could swap out but own. Similar to propane tanks for gas grills. Some people own their own tanks and get them refilled, others do swaps at the super market or something.

I just think the idea that the battery is an inseparable component from the car doesn't have to be. These are choices we're making in real time if we do end up there. Sure for our generation of cars they're all figuring out engineering things like coolant lines, etc. but the batteries themselves are no different than any other lithium ion battery you can or cannot replace on your own. Your iPhone battery is sealed, by choice, not because it's impossible to design an interchangeable battery.

Even if our passenger cars have permanent batteries, they should be semi-permanent in the long-term as bolt-on swaps. Not that we get to make those decisions, can't even find a phone worthwhile with a battery you can access, not even dev phones. I'd imagine most passenger cars will end up this way too and they'll milk the firewalls, coolant, etc. as an excuse to get away with it for decades.

Those propane tanks aren't worth half the price of a new car.

That video is not talking about cars having sealed or permanent batteries in the sense of cell phones. This is not about repair or replacement! That video is talking about the ability to swap batteries in the same sense that you would go refill at a gas station. You see the difference?

There are definitely applications of this technology... normal everyday driving/commuting is not one of them. Paying a fee/rent/subscription for the "convenience" to swap a battery in 1-3 minutes is not going to beat the utility rate on an L2 charger overnight at your home. It's a solution looking for a problem for most people. You and I don't need this. And I personally don't want to pay for it!

EDIT: I'd like to add that if we were using this swap system now, no swap station would have new non-defective batteries. Even imagining this swap station service as a magic fix for our batteries doesn't even pan out. This is really a solution for Uber drivers or transport drivers... and even then... Uber or transport drivers might say they're already happy with CCS chargers now! Battery swapping would have to be cheaper than CCS... that comes with all sorts of complicated questions about ownership and responsibility of the batteries!

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RacerX00

· #6 · Jan 22, 2022

enslay said:
Those propane tanks aren't worth half the price of a new car.

That video is not talking about cars having sealed or permanent batteries in the sense of cell phones. This is not about repair or replacement! That video is talking about the ability to swap batteries in the same sense that you would go refill at a gas station. You see the difference?

There are definitely applications of this technology... normal everyday driving/commuting is not one of them. Paying a fee/rent/subscription for the "convenience" to swap a battery in 1-3 minutes is not going to beat the utility rate on an L2 charger overnight at your home. It's a solution looking for a problem for most people. You and I don't need this. And I personally don't want to pay for it!

EDIT: I'd like to add that if we were using this swap system now, no swap station would have new non-defective batteries. Even imagining this swap station service as a magic fix for our batteries doesn't even pan out. This is really a solution for Uber drivers or transport drivers... and even then... Uber or transport drivers might say they're already happy with CCS chargers now! Battery swapping would have to be cheaper than CCS... that comes with all sorts of complicated questions about ownership and responsibility of the batteries!

I understand what the video was talking about, I'm saying this implementation doesn't have to be all or nothing, sealed or swappable. There's an in-between that should exist and it's the kind of thing we demanded as consumers back in the day and why we have standards like 12v batteries.

It doesn't need to take a trained GM tech to swap out a lithium ion battery pack unless you design your car specifically to make it so you would need a trained GM tech to swap out a lithium ion battery pack. The excuses for doing it that way get thinner over time.

enslay

· #7 · Jan 22, 2022

RacerX00 said:
I understand what the video was talking about, I'm saying this implementation doesn't have to be all or nothing, sealed or swappable. There's an in-between that should exist and it's the kind of thing we demanded as consumers back in the day and why we have standards like 12v batteries.

It doesn't need to take a trained GM tech to swap out a lithium ion battery pack unless you design your car specifically to make it so you would need a trained GM tech to swap out a lithium ion battery pack. The excuses for doing it that way get thinner over time.

Yeah, I'm sure the industry will standardize the EV batteries. It makes a lot of sense to do that! May take decades to see standardization...

All these different car companies are playing with chemistries and different voltages and cell designs to try to one-up the others. Until everyone really figures out what really works, probably won't see any standards.

My impression of swapping stations is that battery and car companies are looking for ways to rake more money out of EV owners. They're designing a product that doesn't need replacement or maintenance... so they need/want to create "services" for such a product.

RacerX00

· #8 · Jan 22, 2022

enslay said:
Yeah, I'm sure the industry will standardize the EV batteries. It makes a lot of sense to do that! May take decades to see standardization...

All these different car companies are playing with chemistries and different voltages and cell designs to try to one-up the others. Until everyone really figures out what really works, probably won't see any standards.

My impression of swapping stations is that battery and car companies are looking for ways to rake more money out of EV owners. They're designing a product that doesn't need replacement or maintenance... so they need/want to create "services" for such a product.

They were standard and are moving away from the standards, actually. It's these newer pouch-pack BEVs that deviate from standards like 18650s that the first Teslas, etc. used.

We just need better standards and perhaps some regulation forcing people to make batteries swappable. It's entirely unacceptable that your Rigid tools can't have their 18650s swapped out. They hardwire them in there specifically so you can't. But they're 18650s inside. A standard battery meant to be easily swapped.

Again, Chevy launching the Bolt in 2017 with coolant lines that make things complicated is completely different than say if the 2023 Equinox comes out with just as difficult servicing. I expect it will, they have to justify a service centers existence and an overly complicated battery replacement is a way to do it.

enslay

· #9 · Jan 22, 2022 (Edited)

RacerX00 said:
They were standard and are moving away from the standards, actually. It's these newer pouch-pack BEVs that deviate from standards like 18650s that the first Teslas, etc. used.

We just need better standards and perhaps some regulation forcing people to make batteries swappable. It's entirely unacceptable that your Rigid tools can't have their 18650s swapped out. They hardwire them in there specifically so you can't. But they're 18650s inside. A standard battery meant to be easily swapped.

Again, Chevy launching the Bolt in 2017 with coolant lines that make things complicated is completely different than say if the 2023 Equinox comes out with just as difficult servicing. I expect it will, they have to justify a service centers existence and an overly complicated battery replacement is a way to do it.

Yeah... you lost me when you claimed Tesla used a standard.

Why do you think Chevy introduced coolant lines? Could it be because your claimed "18650 standard" isn't good enough? Ah right...

enslay said:
All these different car companies are playing with chemistries and different voltages and cell designs to try to one-up the others. Until everyone really figures out what really works, probably won't see any standards.

EDIT: By the way, there's nothing easy about swapping out hundreds of 18650 batteries. You're crazy if you think that's an example of serviceable.

I think you're lost on what you mean by standard. Even though Tesla might use standard batteries inside of its pack, the pack form factor itself is what needs to be standard. And Tesla's pack is not standard... they're doing what you say Rigid is doing? And why is that? Because no one is going to swap out hundreds of batteries. This so far deviates from what we were discussing originally: battery swapping stations. This is completely absurd!

RacerX00

· #10 · Jan 22, 2022

enslay said:
Yeah... you lost me when you claimed Tesla used a standard.

Why do you think Chevy introduced coolant lines? Could it be because your claimed "18650 standard" isn't good enough? Ah right...

EDIT: By the way, there's nothing easy about swapping out thousands of 18650 batteries. You're crazy if you think that's an example of serviceable.

Tesla used 18650s because that's what they could buy and build/design around. You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying we should be self-servicing 18650s merely saying that standards can and do exist and they could exist for BEVs like the 12v battery does already. Tesla definitely does not care or want people like me swapping battery packs in their garage.

The Rigid example, and anything that uses 18650s of that caliber though, that I definitely would argue should be just pop out 18650s. No reason that stuff can't just adhere to the standard and work like vapes:

Watch Gadget Clock Mobile phone Audio equipment

Inside the Rigid battery packs are just 2-6 18650s, that's it. Hardwired in. Sorry to pick on them specifically but there aren't too many specific packs I've opened up and wanted to change 18650s out of and can speak with experience on being frustrated 😁

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enslay

· #11 · Jan 22, 2022

RacerX00 said:
Tesla used 18650s because that's what they could buy and build/design around. You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying we should be self-servicing 18650s merely saying that standards can and do exist and they could exist for BEVs like the 12v battery does already. Tesla definitely does not care or want people like me swapping battery packs in their garage.

The Rigid example, and anything that uses 18650s of that caliber though, that I definitely would argue should be just pop out 18650s. No reason that stuff can't just adhere to the standard and work like vapes:

View attachment 40027

Inside the Rigid battery packs are just 2-6 18650s, that's it. Hardwired in. Sorry to pick on them specifically but there aren't too many specific packs I've opened up and wanted to change 18650s out of and can speak with experience on being frustrated 😁

It would be kinda neat to be able to service the battery pack itself. But I don't think these packs are (or will ever be) like Rigid's packs. Special features aside, you could seriously hurt yourself messing with the battery packs.

But if the battery pack itself has a standard form factor and technical specification, then it won't really matter what the packs themselves are using internally. Could be pouch cells or 18650s for all you care. As long as it adhere's to the hypothetical standard form and technical specs.

EDIT: A standard Lithium Ion battery for all devices would be great. I wonder why computer manufacturers don't seem to do this.

p7wang

· #12 · Jan 22, 2022

enslay said:
It would be kinda neat to be able to service the battery pack itself. But I don't think these packs are (or will ever be) like Rigid's packs. Special features aside, you could seriously hurt yourself messing with the battery packs.

But if the battery pack itself has a standard form factor and technical specification, then it won't really matter what the packs themselves are using internally. Could be pouch cells or 18650s for all you care. As long as it adhere's to the hypothetical standard form and technical specs.

EDIT: A standard Lithium Ion battery for all devices would be great. I wonder why computer manufacturers don't seem to do this.

When I hear GM's Ultium, this is what I thought... able to get future modules with different chemistry and swap in... Imagine swapping in a LFP version for daily use and then a NMCA version for road trips.

RacerX00

· #13 · Jan 22, 2022 (Edited)

enslay said:
It would be kinda neat to be able to service the battery pack itself. But I don't think these packs are (or will ever be) like Rigid's packs. Special features aside, you could seriously hurt yourself messing with the battery packs.

But if the battery pack itself has a standard form factor and technical specification, then it won't really matter what the packs themselves are using internally. Could be pouch cells or 18650s for all you care. As long as it adhere's to the hypothetical standard form and technical specs.

EDIT: A standard Lithium Ion battery for all devices would be great. I wonder why computer manufacturers don't seem to do this.

No, that's what an 18650 already is! We already have the standards for things these sizes! Also, even proprietary stuff can be replaceable like phone and camera batteries used to be. There's way better battery monitoring and managing in the vapes than there are in any Rigid pack as well, so their features can take it and shove it.

enslay

· #14 · Jan 22, 2022

RacerX00 said:
No, that's what an 18650 already is! We already have the standards for things these sizes! Also, even proprietary stuff can be replaceable like phone and camera batteries used to be. There's way better battery monitoring and managing in the vapes than there are in any Rigid pack as well, so their features can take it and shove it.

Even laptops use standard pouch and cylinder batteries.

The form factor is not standard. For example, you cannot plug a Dell laptop battery into a Thinkpad.

RacerX00

· #15 · Jan 22, 2022

enslay said:
The form factor is not standard. For example, you cannot plug a Dell laptop battery into a Thinkpad.

The things inside though, are the standard batteries. Dell doesn't make new lithium ion batteries and design around it, they buy standard batteries that are essentially treated like commodities and seal it behind unserviceable things.

enslay

· #16 · Jan 22, 2022

p7wang said:
When I hear GM's Ultium, this is what I thought... able to get future modules with different chemistry and swap in... Imagine swapping in a LFP version for daily use and then a NMCA version for road trips.

Maybe the future is a EV battery competition with their own proprietary chemistries, BMS and cooling systems that come in a single form factor.

enslay

· #17 · Jan 22, 2022

RacerX00 said:
The things inside though, are the standard batteries. Dell doesn't make new lithium ion batteries and design around it, they buy standard batteries that are essentially treated like commodities and seal it behind unserviceable things.

They may use standard batteries inside of its own proprietary interface, but consumers don't see this. They see a Dell proprietary interface that only works with one series of Dell laptops.

RacerX00

· #18 · Jan 22, 2022

2

enslay said:
Maybe the future is a EV battery competition with their own proprietary chemistries, BMS and cooling systems that come in a single form factor.

There are many ways to do it, but left to their own devices they will be as un-serviceable as possible and they're purposefully designed that way. You can see that by Googling laptop batteries and seeing on the inside. The same exact 18650s that vapers swap in and out of their vapes. The reason, is obvious, money. You have to replace the laptop or at least the laptop battery and they make money.

Only reason vape batteries work like that are because vapes were born out of people tinkering with 18650s in a rudimentary circuit:

Liquid Fluid Amber Wood Writing implement

When big tobacco gets involved, things get, predictably proprietary and sealed:

Rectangle Font Communication Device Electronic device Electric blue

Pretty much every consumer product you buy is intentionally engineered to be non-serviceable. I had a coffee maker I tried to take apart recently where you could see it was originally designed to be serviced and then they plastic'd over specific screws and put tabs in its place. Like literally still had the divets for the screw. Unbelievable.

It needs to be regulated, essentially. The market can't sort itself out on this one.

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