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:eek:Can the Jdapter Stub be secured to prevent it from being stolen?
 

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:eek:Can the Jdapter Stub be secured to prevent it from being stolen?
My Stub came with a mini Masterlock, so yes. Though it probably won't stop a determined thief, it should deter 99% of them. :p I used it during my trip mentioned in the blog.
 

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I read the post - good overview of why a serious EV owner wants to own one of these adapters.

One minor issue however: there is _NO_ trickery in the adapter - it's simply a passive "adapter" - Tesla Destination chargers are simply Tesla Wall Chargers - they are Tesla's version of an L2 charger - Tesla chargers can be configured to provide anywhere from 16 to 80 amps of charging current via a configuration switch inside the unit (please match wire gauge/breaker based on current setting, they aren't magic)…once configured they provide charging to Teslas like any other normal L2 charger.

In fact, the Tesla chargers are protocol/signal compatible with the J-1772 EVSE standard - and Tesla runs/uses the J-1772 electrical standards for their Wall Chargers and Universal Mobile Chargers (UMC) - so since Tesla chargers are fundamentally J-1772 chargers, the adapter works well - and can support any J-1772 based EV (include the Bolt and others).

so this adapter is simply a "physical" adapter that transforms Tesla proprietary shaped connector into a normal J-1772 format - the electrical pins/connectors and signaling are identical.

There are 2 known reasons for Tesla's custom design:

1. the J-1772 connect is un-necessasrily large - and Tesla felt they could design something sleeker - I would suggest they succeeded, but I'm not suggesting that alone was a worthy goal
2. Tesla's proprietary connects does double duty as both an AC-L2 system (J-1772), and a fast-direct-DC system (Tesla superchargers) - Tesla Supercharger use the exact same connector and therefore the high-capacity electrical connections that are normally used by J-1772 for AC current, due double duty as DC current connections when supercharging - obviously the supercharging protocol is Tesla custom and it's a bit of clever engineering that Tesla figured out a way to be compatible with J-1772 for AC/L2 charging, and have the same connector with the same number of electrical PIN's also work for DC-Fast/Supercharging purposes - my personal opinion is that the DC-Fast connector is hidieous and I applaud Tesla's design sense here in designing one connection that can do double duty.

and just to be 100% clear this adapter will _NOT_ let you use Tesla Superchargers so don't try.

http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-charging-batteries/10922-i-have-one-these-works-great.html
 

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Tesla Destination chargers a short term joke

Destination chargers are merely AC Level 2 chargers that Tesla bribes to install , mostly at motels, since that's about the only place where drivers stay long enough to get a decent charge. The cost of the electricity is easily covered by the room rent. The problems are getting a charger and not being able to drive your car for a long period of time. It's not the future - and it will shortly be the past, when Toshiba's new fast charge revolutionary batteries are installed in EVs. They eliminate any need to
spend more than a few minutes charging - and 100% charging at that.
And with the numbers of automakers filling the roads with over 120 EV models in the next several years, DCFS CCS charging stations will absoluetly cover the map. One on every corner, like gas stations and probably often located in gas stations - gas stations have the ideal locations already for refueling cars. What we are experiencing right now is about the same inconveniences the first Model T drivers went through to get from place to place
 

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Destination chargers are merely AC Level 2 chargers that Tesla bribes to install , mostly at motels, since that's about the only place where drivers stay long enough to get a decent charge. The cost of the electricity is easily covered by the room rent. The problems are getting a charger and not being able to drive your car for a long period of time. It's not the future - and it will shortly be the past, when Toshiba's new fast charge revolutionary batteries are installed in EVs. They eliminate any need to
spend more than a few minutes charging - and 100% charging at that.
And with the numbers of automakers filling the roads with over 120 EV models in the next several years, DCFS CCS charging stations will absoluetly cover the map. One on every corner, like gas stations and probably often located in gas stations - gas stations have the ideal locations already for refueling cars. What we are experiencing right now is about the same inconveniences the first Model T drivers went through to get from place to place
please provide a date and productions that will incorporate these batteries - I'm very interested in knowing when they come to market and want companies are planing to ship them.

until then it's vaporware.
 

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... when Toshiba's new fast charge revolutionary batteries are installed in EVs. They eliminate any need to
spend more than a few minutes charging - and 100% charging at that.
Toshiba's SCiB technology is interesting, although I have my reservations on it's practicality.

My understanding is Toshiba has a 32kW battery that can be charged to 90% in just 6 Minutes. That is Awesome!!
However, the Bolt has a 60kW battery, so as it stands a manufacturer would need to put 2 of these Toshiba batteries in a vehicle to
get to that range sweet spot. Again, probably not a deal breaker.

The physics lesson; But to actually charge both 32kW batteries to 90% in 6 minutes, it would require a power source capable of 640kW. A Tesla Supercharger can currently deliver up to 120kW. A charging location, with 6 Toshiba SCiB-ready charging stations would require a 3.84MW available current draw. About the same power draw as 3,750 average homes. (I'll let someone else handle required 750 Amp plug for me)

To remain Green, this one station would need 15 acres of Solar panels or, even better, a 4MW wind turbine (each blade being 100 meters long). But cost would likely be over $20 Million to build this first SCiB station today. Hopefully somewhere in the future, but I can't imagine this anytime soon.
 

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I haven't been able to find much info about the new Toshiba batteries aside from this one press release and the hundreds of articles regurgitating it. These fantastic numbers are apparently based on "rigorous testing of a 50Ah prototype of the new battery." Assuming a 3.7V cell voltage that would mean you need 325 of these to get 60kWh.

Once someone actually starts putting hundreds of these things in battery packs with all the cooling, charging circuitry, safety mechanisms, etc. then maybe we can start buying up Toshiba stock.
 

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I don't find J1772 ugly or a poor design, on the contrary it's simple beauty is why it is so cross compable. In fact I really think Tesla made a mistake by redesigned the connector just to make it 'pretty' by their standards
 

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I don't find J1772 ugly or a poor design, on the contrary it's simple beauty is why it is so cross compable. In fact I really think Tesla made a mistake by redesigned the connector just to make it 'pretty' by their standards
I'm as big a proponent of having one connector standard as you're likely to find, and I think that J1772/CCS is the best chance we have. But I do think the Tesla's compact design is a much nicer one for the user.
 

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The physics lesson; But to actually charge both 32kW batteries to 90% in 6 minutes, it would require a power source capable of 640kW. A Tesla Supercharger can currently deliver up to 120kW. A charging location, with 6 Toshiba SCiB-ready charging stations would require a 3.84MW available current draw. About the same power draw as 3,750 average homes. (I'll let someone else handle required 750 Amp plug for me)

To remain Green, this one station would need 15 acres of Solar panels or, even better, a 4MW wind turbine (each blade being 100 meters long). But cost would likely be over $20 Million to build this first SCiB station today. Hopefully somewhere in the future, but I can't imagine this anytime soon.
The idea here is correct, however the "each blade being 100m long" is not accurate. the diameter however would be about that size - unless perhaps you are talking about the "average" output power. Those calculations get really intense.

Possibly an idea for supply for these, which I got from something I read about recycled batteries (and is not cheap by nature), would be to have a bank of batteries located at the site (which obviously would take a significant amount of space and $$) which could be discharged at rapid rates to charge a car quickly. The battery bank could then replenish itself "slowly" via a couple hundred amp connection to the local grid significantly reducing the draw from the grid while a car is plugged in.

Alternatively, I know that cities/states/provinces/countries are starting to look grid supplement power, via battery storage. If they can build these in a cost effective manner - I'm sure that they could incorporate super fast charging at these locations - the power is just sitting there waiting to be used.

Even if I was charged $30 for a less than ten minute charge to get 200-300 miles of range, I think the convenience factor would make it worthwhile from time to time. Still cheaper than a tank of gas. When battery density continues to improve and range gets even larger these stations will be even more effective (that is if auto manufacturers choose to go this route). I'm not sure what the demand would be for a car that can drive 600 miles or 1000Km on a single charge would be. It would be nice, but at what additional cost?

A couple articles about grid storage to read:

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/05/18/grid-scale-battery-storage-already-viable-australia/

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/california-passes-huge-grid-energy-storage-mandate

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-dodge/tesla-energy-storage_b_7638600.html
 

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Porsche’s announced 800 volt fast charging system is an accumulator system - I.e. batteries accumulate power from lower voltage systems so that you can discharge at a higher rate in “burst” mode...we will see if it actually works and scales...personally I’m dubious. I know it can work, but it’s unclear how many bursts you can do in a row and how long it takes to build a full charge between usages....also this approach does nothing to reduce the cost/complexity of charging stations which will be a factor in wide scale deployment.

No matter which way you slice it delivering 100 kWH in less than 15 minutes is a huge challenge.

The average 20 gallon fill up at a gas station is 5 minutes - that is 660 kWh of power in 1/12th of an hour - or a sustained rate of 7.9 megawatts for each car filling up...and some gas stations have like 16 pumps.

Hydrocarbons are an amazingly dense energy source!
 

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I've wondered if flow batteries might have the requisite energy density. That way you get the benefit of electric and convenance of a liquid fill up.
 

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The idea here is correct, however the "each blade being 100m long" is not accurate. the diameter however would be about that size - unless perhaps you are talking about the "average" output power. Those calculations get really intense.
Yeah, I was guessing. I found this:
The XD140 is a [4MW] wind turbine with a nominal power of 4 MW and a three bladed rotor with a diameter of 140 meters. So each blade a little less than 70M. But still a pretty big puppy to hoover over an electric fillin' station.
The average 20 gallon fill up at a gas station is 5 minutes - that is 660 kWh of power in 1/12th of an hour - or a sustained rate of 7.9 megawatts for each car filling up...and some gas stations have like 16 pumps.
I maintain that any discussion that attempts to make EV's mimic ICEv's functionality at every level is counterproductive in terms of general consumer EV adoption. The continued and unending demand that there be some universal network of ultra-super-duper-speed public charging facilities, that can never be be cost justified from today's business perspective, perpetuates the FUD of the average consumer. 99.999% of all ICEv's require petrol from a gas station. 98% of all EV's get their energy from a residential source. If every residence had a gasoline utility line (like water, gas, and electricity) , then there would be very few gas stations. We would all fill our tanks up every morning at home.

The only caveat pertains to longer (out of R/T range) distance travel. Ultimately, the ubiquitous charging station argument revolves around a demand side that only represents less than 1% of the travel needs of 85% of the population. 15% of the population will likely never justify EV's based on their unique transportation needs. The other 85% will find EV's satisfy 98%- 99% of their typical transportation needs. That 2% potential market can not justify a business investment case for public ultra-fast charging stations.

Education is the key, not pie-in-the-sky technology. Tesla and GM solutions are here today for 85% of the market, at a TCO lower than any ICEv. Soon Nissan, and others. But if the average consumer reading this thinks that charging stations that are the convenience equivalent to petrol stations must be in place first, they will understandably be reluctant to seriously consider an EV.

Electricity is still a mystery to most. Still some magic. In attempting to convince a school district to allow the Volt to be plugged in at a campus while the owner was teaching in class during the day, these college educated people (many with Masters and Ph.D's) thought that it would be dangerous, very costly, and unfair to those employees who did not have an EV. After hours and hours of attempting to explain the concept and use, this picture helped change their minds:


I think we, the converted, need to stop talking about public charging stations as if it were some requirement to EV ownership. If one has an infrequent longer distance road trip, rent a car. If one has a two-driver household, purchase one BEV, and one PHEV with the daily commute range for all electric. Plug in at work. If one has a commute in excess of 200 miles per day, an EV is simply not for you.
 

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I maintain that any discussion that attempts to make EV's mimic ICEv's functionality at every level is counterproductive in terms of general consumer EV adoption. The continued and unending demand that there be some universal network of ultra-super-duper-speed public charging facilities, that can never be be cost justified from today's business perspective, perpetuates the FUD of the average consumer. 99.999% of all ICEv's require petrol from a gas station. 98% of all EV's get their energy from a residential source. If every residence had a gasoline utility line (like water, gas, and electricity) , then there would be very few gas stations. We would all fill our tanks up every morning at home.
this works well for people with garages and who own their home - high density housing and apartments with street parking however this model does _NOT_ work well - unless it becomes standard to provide EVSE's are part of an apartments parking structures - possible, but a major change in existing infrastructure - and for those with no allocated parking and just street parking this is even more difficult.

I agree in principle that you can think different in this case if you fill up more slowly overnight, but there are common scenarios for which that model simply doesn't work…

I also agree building out Fast charging stations like we currently have gas stations probably isn't the model to pursue - but something is going to have to be done to:

a) enable long distance driving
b) deal with the non-garaged EV

I'm not sure a viable solution has been proposed as of yet and people aren't going to give up their 5 minute fill up's with a lot of cajoling…
 

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I don't have any direct experience, but I've seen a few people on YouTube with EV's that are in apartments without a charge-at-home option. They seem to just use the public charging infrastructure in their city while shopping, eating, at the gym, etc. It probably depends on the density of your living environment and your style of life. Maybe there is a large swath of urbanites that might not need anything faster than today's charging options or special consideration at their apartment to make the switch? Then again, these people are probably less likely to own a car in the first place...
 

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but I've seen a few people on YouTube with EV's that are in apartments without a charge-at-home option. They seem to just use the public charging infrastructure in their city while shopping, eating, at the gym, etc. It probably depends on the density of your living environment and your style of life. Maybe there is a large swath of urbanites that might not need anything faster than today's charging options or special consideration at their apartment to make the switch? Then again, these people are probably less likely to own a car in the first place...
Exception meet rule - there will always been motivated early adopters willing to deal with the hassle in exchange for some perceived benefit - but for mass market adoption people don't take Kindly to hassle and will not willing give something up

I think in high density urban areas it's more likely car ownership will decline in favor of existing and alternate forms of transportation - if self driving ever becomes reliable fleets of non-human driven taxi's are an option and that will place pressure on the need to "own" a car and "charge" it - the taxi's will all be electric and charged at a commercial warehouse so dealing with recharging won't be the passenger's problem…

it's going to be very very interesting to see what happens to personal transportation in the next 10-15 years…
 

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this works well for people with garages and who own their home - high density housing and apartments with street parking however this model does _NOT_ work well - unless it becomes standard to provide EVSE's are part of an apartments parking structures - possible, but a major change in existing infrastructure - and for those with no allocated parking and just street parking this is even more difficult.

I'm not sure a viable solution has been proposed as of yet and people aren't going to give up their 5 minute fill up's with a lot of cajoling…
Perfect! You bring up 2 major issues.
A.) Consumers affinity for convenience irrespective of the long term consequences. I think we agree here; "cajoling" = "Education". One thing that trumps human laziness (convenience) is greed. If a consumer is factually informed that an EV is typically 50% of the TCO of an ICEv in terms of dollars out of their pockets, then this may be enough to obfuscate the convenience perception and create much higher demand

B.) High density housing and apartments. I will just explore the housing rental population here. I do note that it is much more complex considering dense high rise condo buildings, rural vs. urban, etc.



Two thirds of the problem solved! Almost 66% of the population qualifies for the simplicity of plugging in overnight and waking to a full tank of energy every morning. Those opting for Solar can awake to a crystal clean tank of energy.

What to do about the other 33%? How about if these public charging facilitators, such as our friendly neighborhood ChevyBolt.org contributor (Yes Charge Point - I'm speaking to you), concentrate their efforts not on corner-located charging stations, but apartment complex parking locations? Partner with the landlords, take a page (of source code) from JuiceBox, and provide a 10-station L2 charger where 10 EV's could park, plug in overnight, and each EV gets charged consecutively. This way, no owner has to go and move their car to make room for another EV. Nor is there any need for an on-site gas-fired 4MW peaker plant to allow for 6-minute charging.

In new apartments around here, EV charging availability has made it to #2 on the Community Amenity List. As EV owners who rent find value in developments that offer on-site charging, more landlords will see that this option is just as important as a clubhouse gym. Moreover, the landlord will participate in a new revenue stream.

I think these are the conversations we need to have.
 
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