Chevy Bolt EV Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,816 Posts
Discussion Starter #1

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Just what I thought--- When car manufacturers heard about the tax credit of $7,500 they calculated a market price and added $7,500. They then kept the $7,500. As the credit went away, EV prices were reduced. Now we see $10,000 discounts? Also, some buyers could not get the full tax credit because they had less than the $7,500 tax liability (probably not applicable to most Tesla buyers). In Europe, after buying an EV, the buyer gets a check from the government. The "wealthy" end up paying their normal tax.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,385 Posts
Just what I thought--- When car manufacturers heard about the tax credit of $7,500 they calculated a market price and added $7,500. They then kept the $7,500. As the credit went away, EV prices were reduced. Now we see $10,000 discounts? Also, some buyers could not get the full tax credit because they had less than the $7,500 tax liability (probably not applicable to most Tesla buyers). In Europe, after buying an EV, the buyer gets a check from the government. The "wealthy" end up paying their normal tax.
I am not sure that I understand the logic of your arguments. Every manufacturer is in the business of obtaining the maximum profit to the benefit of the owners (shareholders). Every manufacturer is aware of the rebates possible and price their product accordingly. {Do you really think that $1500 couch that they have "discounted" to $499 is saving you $1001?} How is the European buyer's getting "a check from the government" any different from a tax credit? {Unless your argument is that it is a "fixed amount" for all buyers, regardless of how much tax they are forced to pay.}.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
As many of us have observed... :)

Is that article accurate? Was Chevrolet themselves discounting $10,000? I thought it was just the $8500 rebate they were offering ... and then anything more came from the dealer.

And I don’t know about manufacturers playing games with their pricing in relation to Federal or State tax credits, but this phenomena occurs routinely at the dealership level where they reduce their discount when rebates go up.

As they say, “All Rebates to Dealer”...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,653 Posts
Just what I thought--- When car manufacturers heard about the tax credit of $7,500 they calculated a market price and added $7,500. They then kept the $7,500. As the credit went away, EV prices were reduced. Now we see $10,000 discounts? Also, some buyers could not get the full tax credit because they had less than the $7,500 tax liability (probably not applicable to most Tesla buyers). In Europe, after buying an EV, the buyer gets a check from the government. The "wealthy" end up paying their normal tax.
No legacy OEM has made a dime yet from EVs. And now all bets are off. Will the government pick EV proactive companies to bail out? How many people with loans or leases on their vehicles will be working next year? How many will be walking?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
GJETSON, Good article on how companies survived the Great Depression. Thanks. I am very skeptical of EV makers not making money. Torture numbers enough and they will tell you anything. What would be the chances of getting a restart on the 200,000 cars sold if GM said they made money on EVs? Maybe I am cynical, maybe I am realistic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,653 Posts
GJETSON, Good article on how companies survived the Great Depression. Thanks. I am very skeptical of EV makers not making money. Torture numbers enough and they will tell you anything. What would be the chances of getting a restart on the 200,000 cars sold if GM said they made money on EVs? Maybe I am cynical, maybe I am realistic.
If legacy makers could make anything like the margins they make on ICE vehicles, do you really believe they would have let Tesla take over the sport sedan business?

If GM could sell a a 250 mile range Equinox for $23,800, and make anything like the money they make now, what would prevent them from taking the market from the Model Y?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,385 Posts
But, is GM making all the money? The battery IS the most expensive component. GM does NOT make the battery (as of yet). Does not the large profit margin go to LG Chem? We do not know what LG Chem charges GM for the battery, but you can bet it is volume-priced. I bought my 2017 Chevy Bolt EV three years ago. I (as many of us likely did) paid "nearly list" (~$42,500) and did qualify for the $7.5K tax credit. So my "net" was $35K. Yes, I know that , as an "early adopter" (not an "innovator") I got to drive/save for three years longer than current buyers. My wife and I saved ~$1500 per year ($250 for electricity vs $1750 for gasoline) for a total of $4500. A part of me still wishes that these new buyers would not get MORE than a $7500 discount... {Sour grapes, I know!} All in all, as a metastatic cancer survivor, I am glad that I COULD drive these past 3 years. Wash hands. Stay well. Drive cleaner/greener/safer/smarter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,392 Posts
If legacy makers could make anything like the margins they make on ICE vehicles, do you really believe they would have let Tesla take over the sport sedan business?
There's a big difference between "not making the same margins" and "loosing money". If you make any margin at all then you're doing at least passably well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,653 Posts
There's a big difference between "not making the same margins" and "loosing money". If you make any margin at all then you're doing at least passably well.
Unfortunately, unless you are Tesla, investors don't want to hear, "We are doing passably well."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Are we supposed to feel bad because GM may not be making any money on the Bolt? Almost no new business venture is profitable from Day-1. Businesses are OK with losing money up-front as long as they feel reasonably sure there's money to be made down the road.

Thank God for Elon Musk because - without him, GM would probably still be trotting out "concept" EVs for the CA market only...
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top