[GadgetMan]

Hi Everyone,

I will be buying a Chevy Bolt in November. I currently drive a Nissan Leaf. Nissan has had major issues with batteries in their electric vehicle and the 2011 Leaf that I purchased in 2016, came with a brand new battery. The previous battery was severely degraded to qualify for warranty replacement at 37,000 miles and less than 5 years of ownership.

Now I know that the Bolt battery is a completely different technology and is actively cooled and heated. This is one of the main reasons for my pending purchase of a Bolt, and the increased range is great. Every Nissan owner knows that if their battery health gauge of 12 bars, falls below 9 bars during the warranty on the battery, their battery will be repaired/replaced under warranty.

I can't find anything similar on a Bolt battery and what exactly triggers a repair/replacement under warranty? I know the bolt battery is warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles. What I am looking for is to learn exactly what triggers a warranty repair or replacement? So far the dealership hasn't been able to answer this question and they are actively searching, but so far nothing definitive.

FYI, the dealership I am working with for a 2019 Bolt LT purchase provided the following information on a replacement of the battery outside of warranty

$16,250 is your net price plus tax
labor is estimated at 6 hours $145 per hour labor. 6x$145= $870 labor

I have asked if individual bad cells can be replaced on a Bolt battery without the full battery needed to be replaced. I am waiting on an answer.

Hopefully, it will be years and years before I need to do anything with a Bolt battery. My interest is knowing up front what triggers a repair/replacement under the current 8 year/100,000 mile warranty.

Any assistance with information would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Pete Blair]

Hi Everyone,

I will be buying a Chevy Bolt in November. I currently drive a Nissan Leaf. Nissan has had major issues with batteries in their electric vehicle and the 2011 Leaf that I purchased in 2016, came with a brand new battery. The previous battery was severely degraded to qualify for warranty replacement at 37,000 miles and less than 5 years of ownership.

Now I know that the Bolt battery is a completely different technology and is actively cooled and heated. This is one of the main reasons for my pending purchase of a Bolt, and the increased range is great. Every Nissan owner knows that if their battery health gauge of 12 bars, falls below 9 bars during the warranty on the battery, their battery will be repaired/replaced under warranty.

I can't find anything similar on a Bolt battery and what exactly triggers a repair/replacement under warranty? I know the bolt battery is warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles. What I am looking for is to learn exactly what triggers a warranty repair or replacement? So far the dealership hasn't been able to answer this question and they are actively searching, but so far nothing definitive.

FYI, the dealership I am working with for a 2019 Bolt LT purchase provided the following information on a replacement of the battery outside of warranty

$16,250 is your net price plus tax
labor is estimated at 6 hours $145 per hour labor. 6x$145= $870 labor

I have asked if individual bad cells can be replaced on a Bolt battery without the full battery needed to be replaced. I am waiting on an answer.

Hopefully, it will be years and years before I need to do anything with a Bolt battery. My interest is knowing up front what triggers a repair/replacement under the current 8 year/100,000 mile warranty.

Any assistance with information would be greatly appreciated!

Degradation of greater than 40% of capacity would trigger a replacement within warranty period, well that is what was stated when I bought the car. I haven't paid attention if that language has changed since then, I have a 2017.

I'm not sure of what, when it comes to cell malfunctions/failures would trigger it. I would assume if you can show there are battery cell failures they would have to replace the entire thing unless they are able to and ok with just replacing the failed cells.

 

[XJ12]

1) a bad cell or any other complete battery failure.
2) greater than a 40% loss of capacity.

 

[Sean Nelson]

1) a bad cell or any other complete battery failure.
2) greater than a 40% loss of capacity.

I think his question is: how do you tell if you've lost 40% of your capacity? On the Leaf there's an indication on the dash that tells you how far the battery has degraded, but there's no equivalent display on the Bolt.

 

[GJETSON]

I think his question is: how do you tell if you've lost 40% of your capacity? On the Leaf there's an indication on the dash that tells you how far the battery has degraded, but there's no equivalent display on the Bolt.

That is precisely what I have been bitching about on here for almost two years. Many of you just yawn, or find it funny. I think it is absolutely crazy that the government doesn't require a readout of battery capacity prominently displayed on a display on all electric cars.

 

[XJ12]

I think his question is: how do you tell if you've lost 40% of your capacity? On the Leaf there's an indication on the dash that tells you how far the battery has degraded, but there's no equivalent display on the Bolt.

If one can drive on average 4 mi/kWhr they should be able to go 240 miles in theory on a battery charge.

60 kWhr battery that has degraded by 40 percent would be 36 kWhr? The car shows average miles/kWhr. Would it still be accurate or show a false number? Like start dropping over time. If the car thinks it's has a full battery, but doesn't, wouldn't it start reporting a lower number? Miles driven is known, but does the car that only has 36kWhr left report 36kWhr used or report back that it used 60kWhr? So the car eventually starts reporting back that you're averaging 2.4 mi/kWhr when you get to 40 percent degradation?

With 36 KWhr left after the 40 percent loss of capacity, then one could only drive 144 miles on a charge if they still averaged 4 mi/kWhr.

Hopefully GM has a way to verify the loss. Would be obvious to the owner, but one can see the subjectivity when factoring in environmental factors.

 

[GJETSON]

If one can drive on average 4 mi/kWhr they should be able to go 240 miles in theory on a battery charge.

It doesn't matter what you get for mi/kWh. It is just simple math when doing a full range test to determine the usable capacity. But will GM accept my word for it? Will pictures of the displays be enough proof?

 

[shocker]

It doesn't matter what you get for mi/kWh. It is just simple math when doing a full range test to determine the usable capacity. But will GM accept my word for it? Will pictures of the displays be enough proof?

Pretty sure the answer is "no". GM would make it judgement based on service diagnostics.

Where most Bolts are sold the battery warranty is 10/150. Haven't seen many complaints about range loss in Gen I Volts, a number of which have crossed the 100K barrier by now.

 

[GJETSON]

Pretty sure the answer is "no". GM would make it judgement based on service diagnostics.

Where most Bolts are sold the battery warranty is 10/150. Haven't seen many complaints about range loss in Gen I Volts, a number of which have crossed the 100K barrier by now.

Diagnostics which we will not be able to see, and even if we did they have made no statements about a number. So what is to prevent them from saying, at ten years, sorry that isn't the number we were thinking of. You lose.

I know that most folks on here will be on their third or fourth EV by then. But for those of us who are in this to the end, it really does matter.

As for the Volt...it has a totally different use case, with lots of buffer.

I don't expect to be at 36 kWh usable in ten years, but only time will tell.

 

[Vertiformed]

Diagnostics which we will not be able to see, and even if we did they have made no statements about a number. So what is to prevent them from saying, at ten years, sorry that isn't the number we were thinking of. You lose.

I know that most folks on here will be on their third or fourth EV by then. But for those of us who are in this to the end, it really does matter.

First, they picked 40% precisely because that was a number that would pretty much never happen.

If it does happen, the battery will be in a serious decline and it’s likely that a month later it’ll be 45%, etc. So if they did say “that’s only 38%”, you’d just drive it a little more.

Perhaps (whoever measures it) it could somehow be 39.4% at 100,000 miles, but you might also be struck by lightning or win the lottery with a ticket you found lying on the ground. You could spend your whole life pondering unlikely what-ifs.

 

[psyflyjohn]

When I had a Miev, the GOM kept dropping. It's a sickening feeling. The ensuing battle with Mitsubishi was pure **** to get a replacement. Pray you don't wake up one morning after recharging your Bolt with the GOM showing 140 miles capacity...

 

[GJETSON]

First, they picked 40% precisely because that was a number that would pretty much never happen.

If it does happen, the battery will be in a serious decline and it’s likely that a month later it’ll be 45%, etc. So if they did say “that’s only 38%”, you’d just drive it a little more.

Perhaps (whoever measures it) it could somehow be 39.4% at 100,000 miles, but you might also be struck by lightning or win the lottery with a ticket you found lying on the ground. You could spend your whole life pondering unlikely what-ifs.

This is not like being struck by lightning. This is a written warranty on a $36K product we bought. I just don't understand how people can be so generous to giant corporations selling us products that, in the US, are practically a necessity.

Honestly, do you not find it ridiculous that they are telling us they are guaranteeing 60% of a number they will not specify?

 

[Vertiformed]

This is not like being struck by lightning.

We're talking about probabilities. For the situation you're worrying about to occur, you need the following:

• Your Bolt shows hitherto-unseen levels of degradation. RIght now we have people with 70,000 miles with less than 10%. If you're the kind of person who looks to general experience with bettery behavior (which you are given your charging strategies), you should accept as well-known that typically degradation rate reduces after the first 10% (and then much later falls off a cliff).
• This degradation either happens suddenly and then stops (leaving you at 39%), which is unlikely, or it happens at exactly the time the warranty is running out, which is also unlikely—it's more likely to happen before or after.

It seems like a perfect storm of bad luck to me.

This is a written warranty on a $36K product we bought. I just don't understand how people can be so generous to giant corporations selling us products that, in the US, are practically a necessity.

You signed on the dotted line. If you didn't like the warranty, you should have written to GM saying you wanted to buy a Bolt, but were not going to do so because the warranty was ill-specified. Now that you've accepted it, it's a bit late to complain.

Honestly, do you not find it ridiculous that they are telling us they are guaranteeing 60% of a number they will not specify?

Not really. GM has been pretty proactive in replacing battery packs for people with failing cells, and that makes me think that they actually do want to do right by their customers. Even if car gave you a measurement dial on the dash and a promise that they'd replace if the capacity dropped by only 25%, you could later find that the warranty made no claims about charge/discharge rate, and that the BMS was “protecting the battery from degradation” by reducing these rates, limiting your enjoyment/use of the car.

Here's story about batteries and warranties: My spouse had an iPhone 6S. It was subject to a battery recall because early production had an issue with the cell chemistry. We waited to replace it until it was fairly old, but when we finally sent it away, Apple first claimed to have found an unauthorized part inside the phone (impossible) and then that their tests showed that the motherboard was about to fail. They said they could not in good conscience put a new battery into a failing phone (despite the warranty). In the end we asked them to send it back unrepaired, which they said they did, but it arrived working fine with brand new battery (??!!?). Somehow I think they'd mixed up their paperwork, but I learned then about trying to argue when someone else holds all the cards.

But all the evidence points to the fact that most of the time there isn't bad faith, because it's clear to me that if they did want to screw you over, there are many many ways to do it.

 

[GJETSON]

But all the evidence points to the fact that most of the time there isn't bad faith, because it's clear to me that if they did want to screw you over, there are many many ways to do it.

First off. I am quite sure GM wants their EVs to succeed, as they know better than most that from here on out transportation is going electric. I suspect they would be shocked if more than a tiny number needed to use the battery warranty.

My beef is really with government. It seems like, eight years ago, it would have been easy enough to write a line into EV regulations requiring a readout of battery capacity.

As for not buying a Bolt...It was, and still is the only EV we could/would buy here in Virginia.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

First off. I am quite sure GM wants their EVs to succeed, as they know better than most that from here on out transportation is going electric. I suspect they would be shocked if more than a tiny number needed to use the battery warranty.

My beef is really with government. It seems like, eight years ago, it would have been easy enough to write a line into EV regulations requiring a readout of battery capacity.

As for not buying a Bolt...It was, and still is the only EV we could/would buy here in Virginia.

The government often lags behind in those areas, which I think is okay. Essentially, if something actually becomes a problem for society as a whole, then the government should step in and legislate or regulate.

I haven't been curious enough to inquire, but it sounds like you are. Why not see if you can get in touch with a GM representative to see what their protocols are for testing battery capacity? You don't need the starting capacity. GM officially published that in the Bolt EV's EPA filing documents (60 kWh: 350 V nominal at 171 Ah). If their capacity test results in anything less than 36 kWh and you are within the warranty, you are eligible for a battery replacement.

 

[Packard V8]

That is precisely what I have been bitching about on here for almost two years. Many of you just yawn, or find it funny. I think it is absolutely crazy that the government doesn't require a readout of battery capacity prominently displayed on a display on all electric cars.

GM has a hundred years of customer experience telling them for 99% of their customers, no news is good news. Yes, Bolt and BEV owners are definitely different. However, for most ICE owners, GM knows dials/readouts on the dash are like pacifiers to babies; makes the owner feel better but don't really do much, because most never look and fewer understand.

For the past forty years or so, gauges and today's digital readouts have been basically go/no indicators, very little better than idiot lights. This came about because owners would compare their car's gauges with the neighbor or worry theirs didn't have quite enough oil pressure or was running a bit too hot. The manufacturers response to customer worries was to dampen the gauge readout. Ignoring the fine points of what they're supposedly indicating, most gauges are engineered to go to the mid-point and stay there until a danger point is reached and then go to full-on.

It's a safe assumption that the software behind the screen on the Bolt is dampened as well. The much-maligned GOM is frantically making calculations all the time, way more than we can imagine, but with the assumption it's better never to be wrong and never give the customer anything to worry about than to be absolutely accurate.

jack vines

My beef is really with government. It seems like, eight years ago, it would have been easy enough to write a line into EV regulations requiring a readout of battery capacity.

Battery capacity is usually more a straight line degradation than is ICE lifespan, but both have the potential for catastrophic failure at any time in ownership. Today's ICEs have the hardware/software capability to display developed horsepower. Just hold full throttle for five seconds and see how much of the rated horsepower remains. Why isn't that a government regulation?

Pray you don't wake up one morning after recharging your Bolt with the GOM showing 140 miles capacity...

Happens most below-zero mornings in the frozen northwest. Should guvmint also have written a line into EV regs requiring the buyer to sign he had been read a statement indicating the 238-mile range estimate was a best case scenario and for six months of the year, it's more like 140-160 at best?

Yes, we Bolt owners are different; the mean absolute deviation is extreme and then the outliers.

jack vines

 

[GJETSON]

GM officially published that in the Bolt EV's EPA filing documents (60 kWh: 350 V nominal at 171 Ah)

But 350 x 171 = 59.85 kWh, which is lower than some have seen on their center screen for total used.

According to Wesley, the Korean government officially lists Bolt EV's battery as being 350V 174Ah, which makes more sense, as 350 x 174 = 60.9 kWh.

Mostly, I am talking about this because I am bored with the slow pace of EV acceptance in general, and the pitiful interest in the Bolt in particular. As I have said many times, It is as sensible an EV as will ever be sold here, and the total lack of interest by my fellow citizens shows how hopelessly screwed we are.

 

[Packard V8]

As I have said many times, It is as sensible an EV as will ever be sold here,

For true; GM got it right. The Bolt looks conventional, drives conventional, has enough range.

However, as long as ICE use is subsidized by lower-than-infrastructure-and-climate-change-cost taxes, the EV has had little chance.

However, I feel the tipping point has been reached and wide-spread adaption of BEVs will come soon. Unfortunately, too late to save the planet.

jack vines

 

[NewsCoulomb]

But 350 x 171 = 59.85 kWh, which is lower than some have seen on their center screen for total used.

According to Wesley, the Korean government officially lists Bolt EV's battery as being 350V 174Ah, which makes more sense, as 350 x 174 = 60.9 kWh.

Well, there were decimals, as well. :laugh:

Mostly, I am talking about this because I am bored with the slow pace of EV acceptance in general, and the pitiful interest in the Bolt in particular. As I have said many times, It is as sensible an EV as will ever be sold here, and the total lack of interest by my fellow citizens shows how hopelessly screwed we are.

That hasn't been what I've seen so far. While Bolt EV sales have been overshadowed by Tesla Model 3 deliveries, it's important to keep in mind that the Bolt EV has been selling as well as any other BEV to date. So I definitely wouldn't say that there is a lack of interest.

 

[GadgetMan]

Thank you everyone for your replies. My feeling is that the dealership, manufacturer, and customer should ALL have a crystal clear understanding on what triggers a battery repair/replacement. The customer should also have an easy documented way of verifying the health of their battery to know whether or not the battery is subject to repair/replacement.

Nissan made this process easy to understand for their customers. For the early Nissan Leaf owners who are now out of warranty with severely degraded batteries, Nissan has now RAISED the price of replacement batteries from $5,500 to $8,500 dollars. Adds insult to injury for those who did not get their battery replaced under warranty. Thankfully the previous owner of my Leaf did get a replacement battery before I purchased it from him. My battery with newer technology has performed very well.

Again, apples to oranges comparing a Leaf battery to a Bolt. I just want to feel comfortable knowing what triggers the repair/replacement if needed. As others noted, it is what is in the contract/warranty that matters.

That is precisely what I have been bitching about on here for almost two years. Many of you just yawn, or find it funny. I think it is absolutely crazy that the government doesn't require a readout of battery capacity prominently displayed on a display on all electric cars.