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“We’re definitely going to be improving our Supercharger’s technology. The thing about a 350 kW charger is that it doesn’t actually make a ton of sense, unless you got a monster battery pack or have like a crazy high C rating…
That's all well and fine for Li-Ion batteries, but if any of this solid state battery hype comes to pass in some reasonable time frame (big "if", I know) then that argument might go out the window.
 

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From the wikipedia article :

As of 2017 Tesla is the only automaker which offers based on the IEC 62196-2 specification the charging with alternating current and direct current. For charging with direct current the specification IEC 62196-3 Combined Charging System (CCS) is favored in Europe.[8]

Above is what I have always thought : the type2 plug is "better" than type1, as it allows not only single phase but also triple phase AC charging, up to a (theoretical) max of 40-odd kW. Thus, up until very recently, a type 2 AC plug was really all that was necessary (except for Tesla, which modified the type2 for super-charging via DC in Europe market) - if you needed a 'fast' charge, you got it via a 40 kW AC power supply. Also, only tesla offered DC charging via a type2 socket, to allow higher charge rates for their cars with larger batteries.

The new standards recommend CCS2 in Europe for DC charging (my guess is because it allows up to 350 kW charging, and that way there is only one plug type across Europe {EVEN, in this case, for Tesla, which has announced CCS support for Europe})
And now CCS for Australia and NZ for the Model 3. I would assume that since we now know it works, can NA be far behind?
https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2018/11/18/tesla-australia-will-add-ccs-chargers-to-support-model-3/


As a Tesla owner in America however, getting CCS compatibility is no big deal. Depending on the price of the adapter, I don't see myself ever using it. I have 12k miles in less than 6 months and have yet to be compromised in my travels just using SC.
I suppose for the 1% that show up to a full SC, it may provide some relief but even the Model 3 will be paying more for the same amount of juice and so far, the anxiety of not know if you will have a working, available plug, negates the option IMO.
You know what they say, a bird in the hand.......
 

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Why dont you all just buy one of these cables and then you can charge at almost any Tesla L2 charging location and call it a day? I wouldnt want to buy it from Tesla and have to pay their premium.

http this because I cant post a link yet....


shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapter-Stub-Tesla-Charge-Station-Adaptor-JDPTRSTB.htm;jsessionid=3D269A632E628BDD872C3177EB67A0F7.p3plqscsfapp001
 

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Why dont you all just buy one of these cables and then you can charge at almost any Tesla L2 charging location and call it a day? I wouldnt want to buy it from Tesla and have to pay their premium.

http this because I cant post a link yet....


shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapter-Stub-Tesla-Charge-Station-Adaptor-JDPTRSTB.htm;jsessionid=3D269A632E628BDD872C3177EB67A0F7.p3plqscsfapp001

Thanks. That's a well-known product in these parts. In fact, the company owner pops in here occasionally.

I've had one for almost a year now. Haven't used it yet.

As this thread is about Superchargers, it should be noted that the J-Dapter is for the Tesla L2 chargers, and absolutely will not work on a Tesla Supercharger.
 

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Question: does the tesla adaptor work on our j1772??? please let me know. llf
The answer is well documented on this site - do a simple search for the product.

(The answer is yes, by the way.)
 

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Bolts can most definitely charge at Tesla Superchargers...just not here, nor intentionally.

 

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Bolts can most definitely charge at Tesla Superchargers...just not here, nor intentionally.

Someone needs to build a Supercharger to NA CCS adapter plug stat... Got to test out one of those V3 Superchargers! :ROFLMAO:
 

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With Europe pushing EV full steam and competing charging station appearing, perhaps Tesla should just open up their stalls to all EVs. This would be really helpful in a pinch. To ensure mostly Tesla cars charge there, perhaps set the charging price a little higher and give Tesla a charging discount.
 

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With Europe pushing EV full steam and competing charging station appearing, perhaps Tesla should just open up their stalls to all EVs. This would be really helpful in a pinch. To ensure mostly Tesla cars charge there, perhaps set the charging price a little higher and give Tesla a charging discount.
Shirley you jest. We've discussed this a thousand times. There's a Tesla policy that's been in existence since 2014 I think that already allows non-Tesla's to use the Supercharger network.


Just like sharing software, batteries and tech, Tesla has openly offered access to all this as well as their patents. There's a process to do so such as minimum charging speed,(the Bolt would never be allowed access) and contribution to the costs which should be expected.

This was Musk's quote from 6 weeks ago:
“We’ve always said that this is not intended to be a walled garden, and we’re happy to support other automakers and let them use our Supercharger stations. They would just need to pay, you know, share the costs proportionate to their vehicle usage, and they would need to be able to accept our charge rate or at least our connector, at least have an adapter to our connector. This is something that we are very open to,” Musk said."

For whatever reasons, no major automaker is willing or able to meet Tesla's requirements. Ultimately, it will probably happen though. My theory on their strategy for the network was to stay ahead of the growth but instead of having more locations initially with fewer stalls, they are thinking 10 years ahead and stretching the locations thinner but with a lot more portals per location. It's probably easier to fill in the gaps latter with new installs that to expand an existing location so max out each location from the start. As profits allow, the build out becomes denser and denser, and with dozens of portals at each location (sometimes as many as 50), they should be able to handle the crush of not only Tesla's but the others as well. So when you see a supercharger station with 24 empty stalls at noon, it's not unintentional.

When you consider that 4 out of 5 EV's in the US are already Tesla's and it's a known fact that Tesla's on average drive more miles than even ICEV's (excluding diesels), adding maybe 15% more capacity is most likely already built in.

Additionally, as the charging speeds and ranges increase, the time needed to charge will become shorter and shorter meaning a faster turnover. They already get 180 miles in 15 minutes which should be more that enough to get to the next supercharger for 1,000 mile legs. Who knows, maybe on Battery Day Musk will announce an increase in both range and charging speed which along with V4 Superchargers could get us to 400kW.

The biggest difference between the public network and Tesla's private network is that Tesla's is perpetually funded and will continue to expand as needed. Being vertically integrated and having their own energy division allows a seamless network of software, hardware, and energy storage solutions which have proven superior to the broken, unreliable, stressful public network. There's also the ownership of the network when it comes to maintenance and reliability. There's occasionally non-working stalls that are neglected still but nothing like what the EA fiasco is like.
We may also see more stand alone comfort plaza's like Harris Ranch as the usage justifies.
 

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Shirley you jest. We've discussed this a thousand times. There's a Tesla policy that's been in existence since 2014 I think that already allows non-Tesla's to use the Supercharger network.


Just like sharing software, batteries and tech, Tesla has openly offered access to all this as well as their patents. There's a process to do so such as minimum charging speed,(the Bolt would never be allowed access) and contribution to the costs which should be expected.

This was Musk's quote from 6 weeks ago:
“We’ve always said that this is not intended to be a walled garden, and we’re happy to support other automakers and let them use our Supercharger stations. They would just need to pay, you know, share the costs proportionate to their vehicle usage, and they would need to be able to accept our charge rate or at least our connector, at least have an adapter to our connector. This is something that we are very open to,” Musk said."

For whatever reasons, no major automaker is willing or able to meet Tesla's requirements. Ultimately, it will probably happen though. My theory on their strategy for the network was to stay ahead of the growth but instead of having more locations initially with fewer stalls, they are thinking 10 years ahead and stretching the locations thinner but with a lot more portals per location. It's probably easier to fill in the gaps latter with new installs that to expand an existing location so max out each location from the start. As profits allow, the build out becomes denser and denser, and with dozens of portals at each location (sometimes as many as 50), they should be able to handle the crush of not only Tesla's but the others as well. So when you see a supercharger station with 24 empty stalls at noon, it's not unintentional.

When you consider that 4 out of 5 EV's in the US are already Tesla's and it's a known fact that Tesla's on average drive more miles than even ICEV's (excluding diesels), adding maybe 15% more capacity is most likely already built in.

Additionally, as the charging speeds and ranges increase, the time needed to charge will become shorter and shorter meaning a faster turnover. They already get 180 miles in 15 minutes which should be more that enough to get to the next supercharger for 1,000 mile legs. Who knows, maybe on Battery Day Musk will announce an increase in both range and charging speed which along with V4 Superchargers could get us to 400kW.

The biggest difference between the public network and Tesla's private network is that Tesla's is perpetually funded and will continue to expand as needed. Being vertically integrated and having their own energy division allows a seamless network of software, hardware, and energy storage solutions which have proven superior to the broken, unreliable, stressful public network. There's also the ownership of the network when it comes to maintenance and reliability. There's occasionally non-working stalls that are neglected still but nothing like what the EA fiasco is like.
We may also see more stand alone comfort plaza's like Harris Ranch as the usage justifies.
"Support other automakers." That's all you need to take from Elon's pompous statements. Opening the Superchargers has never been about "supporting other automakers," but rather, it is about supporting EV owners.

The fact is, other automakers have been contributing sizable amounts to building out the public charging infrastructure that many Tesla owners benefit from for some time now, and Tesla has done absolutely nothing to reciprocate. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.
 

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For whatever reasons, no major automaker is willing or able to meet Tesla's requirements. Ultimately, it will probably happen though.
I suspect in EU, the boat has already sailed.

No manufacturer at this point would be willing to pay Tesla to deploy more plugs to allow their customer's cars to use Tesla plugs. The manufacturers are already in with other networks, and if it is like North America, the EU CCS networks nearly equal SC's size. That would be a steep price for VAG, Volvo, etc to pay given the networks they contribute to already allow Tesla owners to charge.

Maybe the terms should be, when Tesla financially backs CCS networks, that manufacturers would consider contributing to the SC network. I understand how literally absurd that sounds, but do you see how absurd Tesla's arguments are becoming? Particularly in the EU.

It appears to outsiders an awful lot like a snotty little brat who insists on having his cake, and eating it too. I even saw a post on Reddit recently where a Tesla owner was nearly demanding EA put in more CHAdeMO plugs so he could charge at EA sites. How utterly selfish does that sound?

Over the next few years, assuming the take rate on new CCS models is respectable, Teslas may no longer outnumber CCS EVs. They clearly won't have the charging advantage vs CCS within a short time given the rate EVGo, EA, and others are growing. The time seems right for someone to call uncle on the stalemate and make some moves towards universal charging.
 

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Shirley you jest. We've discussed this a thousand times. There's a Tesla policy that's been in existence since 2014 I think that already allows non-Tesla's to use the Supercharger network.
That's not allowing anyone to use the SC network. It sets up a set of conditions that no manufacturer will choose to meet. When Tesla allows for an individual with an EV from a company that has no relationship with Tesla to charge at a SuperCharger, then we can talk.

Ionity, Electrify America, EVGo, FastNed, nor Chargepoint require a company agreement to use their chargers. You pull up, you pay, you charge. Simple. Why does Tesla have to be different if they really wanted anyone else to charge at their SC stations?

ga2500ev
 

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I suspect in EU, the boat has already sailed.

No manufacturer at this point would be willing to pay Tesla to deploy more plugs to allow their customer's cars to use Tesla plugs. The manufacturers are already in with other networks, and if it is like North America, the EU CCS networks nearly equal SC's size. That would be a steep price for VAG, Volvo, etc to pay given the networks they contribute to already allow Tesla owners to charge.

Maybe the terms should be, when Tesla financially backs CCS networks, that manufacturers would consider contributing to the SC network. I understand how literally absurd that sounds, but do you see how absurd Tesla's arguments are becoming? Particularly in the EU.

It appears to outsiders an awful lot like a snotty little brat who insists on having his cake, and eating it too. I even saw a post on Reddit recently where a Tesla owner was nearly demanding EA put in more CHAdeMO plugs so he could charge at EA sites. How utterly selfish does that sound?

Over the next few years, assuming the take rate on new CCS models is respectable, Teslas may no longer outnumber CCS EVs. They clearly won't have the charging advantage vs CCS within a short time given the rate EVGo, EA, and others are growing. The time seems right for someone to call uncle on the stalemate and make some moves towards universal charging.
That's not allowing anyone to use the SC network. It sets up a set of conditions that no manufacturer will choose to meet. When Tesla allows for an individual with an EV from a company that has no relationship with Tesla to charge at a SuperCharger, then we can talk.

Ionity, Electrify America, EVGo, FastNed, nor Chargepoint require a company agreement to use their chargers. You pull up, you pay, you charge. Simple. Why does Tesla have to be different if they really wanted anyone else to charge at their SC stations?

ga2500ev
You're both implying that Tesla is courting other manufacturers to join their network. They're not. They are offering an opportunity to join it if they share the rightfully deserved cost and meet the minimum charging speeds to facilitate efficient functionality. So I'm not understanding what Tesla argument you are referring to. It's just an offer on the table with terms. Nobody is pleading or putting a gun to anyone's head to justify joining in. Either you see and agree to it's merit or you don't. No sweat off Tesla's back.

Tesla and the Supercharger Network obviously doesn't need the support from the OEM's and being a privately funded service, they reserve the right to provide that service only to dues paying members just like any other privately funded service. It's similar to privately launching satellites to be used for internet service. I pay a monthly fee to use that service but there's an area in Western Australia that has poor reception so because the service is spotty and the satellite service is fantastic, the satellite company should provide internet access to Western Australian's for free? The satellite company is offering their internet service for those that are willing to pay for it but if you feel your crappy internet service is fine as is, no problem. The satellite company doesn't care because the satellites were already paid for by members that pre-subscribed.
As someone that has paid for that service, I would cry foul if others were allowed the same access without also paying their fair share. How much have you paid towards the public network? Probably about the same amount as I have. Maybe if you've owned a Volkswagen in the past, you can say you contributed to the EA build-out but that's still a stretch as the profits they took then were not earmarked for the build-out but intended for dividends and such.

This is simply Tesla's attempt to accelerate sustainable transportation by offering a service that they have funded and has proven to be the best charging network available. Whether the public infrastructure is still non-functional enough to justify the cost of joining the supercharger network is debatable. Some feel the Supercharger Network is already inferior to the public network so for them, it's definitely a non-starter. There's a fair number of Tesla owners that see the Supercharger Network as one of the most important moats they have and a large reason behind buying a Tesla. Some of them are members of this forum.

How do you know the set of conditions are so difficult or unrealistic for an OEM to meet? You're basing this assumption of the lack of evidence that any have joined but that doesn't prove the reason why. I think a lot of it is not wanting to validate Tesla's success and early on, there was a genuine concern that Tesla would even survive. Holding off on joining until it was clear that Tesla was on solid footing was a reasonable stance to take. Now that Volkswagen's penance has re-ignited a significant investment, the Supercharger Network isn't the only option to travel long distance. If it weren't for Electrify America, the Supercharger Network would look pretty inviting for a lot of EV'ers today and we may have had a different outcome.

I think it would be very difficult to open it up to individuals due to the technical implications required. If the OEM didn't already set up the car to allow the networking compatibility and provide an adapter, I don't see how it's even feasible. That's one of the advantages to the Supercharger Network is it's all part of the Tesla ecosystem. You can't take an off the shelf Polestar and expect it to perform as seamless and flawless on the Network as a Tesla unless it was built into the car already. It's only going to work inclusive of the entire OEM's offering. They need to agree to the terms from a hardware and software perspective and that may be why they won't do it.

Agree though that the window of opportunity is closing fast unless maybe you're a startup like Lucid where they started with a clean sheet design and are at a price point where having a $5k Supercharger option would get a take rate that justifies the R&D but I don't see GM building it into the Lyriq and offering it to their customers. It's just not as big of an advantage now with EA.
 

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The conditions are obvious:

1. A manufacturer would have to switch to a Tesla port, at least in North America.
2. A manufacturer would have to guarantee that they could charge at some specified Tesla charge rate.
3. A manufacturer would have to invest actual dollars into the network.
4. There is no guarantee that Tesla wouldn't make some change to the system obsoleting previous investment as Tesla would be in complete control of the technology.
5. Manufacturers would be sending their vehicles and their owners into places with Tesla specific advertising.

Only a fool of a business person would submit to such conditions. And I propose that Tesla knows that.

Tesla never had to deal with manufacturers if they wanted non Teslas to charge. Virtually all of the installation costs of charging stations are in the electrical infrastructure and permissing. Tesla could have, and honestly still could, trivially add a couple of CCS/CHAdeMO stations to each supercharger site, set up a billing app, and allow individuals to charge. You can see how simple it was to do as they converted hundreds of their European stations to CCS.

Look, it's fine that Tesla doesn't charge other cars. But I call it disingenuous to say that Tesla has made a reasonable offer and no one took them up on it.

ga2500ev
 

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The conditions are obvious:

1. A manufacturer would have to switch to a Tesla port, at least in North America.
2. A manufacturer would have to guarantee that they could charge at some specified Tesla charge rate.
3. A manufacturer would have to invest actual dollars into the network.
4. There is no guarantee that Tesla wouldn't make some change to the system obsoleting previous investment as Tesla would be in complete control of the technology.
5. Manufacturers would be sending their vehicles and their owners into places with Tesla specific advertising.

Only a fool of a business person would submit to such conditions. And I propose that Tesla knows that.

Tesla never had to deal with manufacturers if they wanted non Teslas to charge. Virtually all of the installation costs of charging stations are in the electrical infrastructure and permissing. Tesla could have, and honestly still could, trivially add a couple of CCS/CHAdeMO stations to each supercharger site, set up a billing app, and allow individuals to charge. You can see how simple it was to do as they converted hundreds of their European stations to CCS.

Look, it's fine that Tesla doesn't charge other cars. But I call it disingenuous to say that Tesla has made a reasonable offer and no one took them up on it.

ga2500ev
Point 1, an adapter would be the logical solution.
Point 2, true, why is this a stumbling block? Are you thinking that if for some unexplained reason the taper of the Polestar drops too soon or too far beyond the approved specs, Tesla will boot them out of the program? Meeting a minimum threshold though could be what's stopping the conversation in it's tracks for many. I don't see the German EV's having a problem with this though.
Point 3, Obviously, that's always been a requirement, no news there.
Point 4, Yup, could happen. Rather doubtful but if you're looking for a reason, there's always a possibility. You might as well lump Tesla bankruptcy into this too.
Point 5, Tesla doesn't advertise. What are you alluding too? Harris Ranch coffee cups and T shirts?

Your last point has been hashed out before but in a nutshell, Tesla survival has been and probably still is a concern. Not as bad now but until the past 9 months, spending money for programs that are further down on the list of priorities would be a breach of fiduciary responsibility, don't you agree?
Think about a company teetering on extinction spending much needed cash to facilitate long distance charging for non-Tesla's when that money would have 10X the return by investing it in their own growth.
Just look at the numbers. For Tesla to throw money at the public infrastructure that does absolutely nothing to help keep them afloat rather than improve efficiencies trying to keep up with demand would be idiotic.
Spend $10M so that 15% of the EV community can travel worry free or use it to increase production 15%? That's not to say it's a dumb idea, I agree wholeheartedly it's a benefit ultimately but they have much bigger issues right now than what little that would do to advance the mission.

It's really just a blame game. Tesla prints money, they claim to want to save the planet, it's all about working together towards the mission but what have you done for me? You guys tried this with the Generation 3 Destination charger and guess what? It's still open sourced, not tied to the car. It's up to the proprietor if they let you use it, not Tesla.
And to address the original point, Tesla has started to facilitate non-Tesla's at their supercharger sites. Here's a snippet from Out Of Specs cross country road trip that shows the Gen 3 destination chargers which come with the J1772 plug. No need for the JDapter for crying out loud.

Tesla Gen 3 Destination charger at a supercharger site J1772 standard
 

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Then why doesn't Tesla do this?
[rhetorical question warning :laugh: ]
Because Tesla doesn't want 'their' customers to wait in line behind a Bolt to get at an SC session, that's my 'guess'. I for one, will probably be buying a Tesla (especially if I remain in the midwest) because of a lack of charging infrastructure here. And if I had a Tesla and saw a SC station BOLTED over or LEAFED, I'd go postal.
 

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There is no way that GM is going to hand VIN numbers and contact information on their customers to a competitor in exchange for SC access. I expect that GM considers this list internal marketing data.
I agree with your point and the spirit, but that information is already fairly easy to mine in the public domain. I created a motorcyle group in my state, and did an open records request to my state DMV for the registration data of every Yamaha VMAX currently or previously registered in the State of WI. I gave them the necessary first digits of the VIN to conduct it's extraction and 10 days later for $3.00 in cost, I got a full list of every VIN of every Yamaha VMAX motorcycle since 1995 in WI. About 30% of them had checked the DMV don't sell my address to 3rd parties box when they last paid registration fees but I got their name only and Google is a wonderful thing for finding people. CarFax has tie in's with every state to get VIN, Title and crash info. They get limited contact info but my point is that information is fairly easy to get with a FOIA request and records being as electronic as they are it's easier than ever.
 

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Because Tesla doesn't want 'their' customers to wait in line behind a Bolt to get at an SC session, that's my 'guess'. I for one, will probably be buying a Tesla (especially if I remain in the midwest) because of a lack of charging infrastructure here. And if I had a Tesla and saw a SC station BOLTED over or LEAFED, I'd go postal.
I don't see that being a concern since neither would likely meet the minimum charge rate (maybe the new Leaf would, I don't know). That's the point of the minimum charge rate is to service as many cars as possible without inconveniencing others. I've posed the question a few years back on the Tesla forum and the members that voiced an opinion really didn't have a problem sharing as long as they used proper etiquette, i.e. only charge what you need, move when done, don't use a shared cabinet if an empty one is available on V2, etc. The biggest gripe though was they paid their fair share. Oddly, as you can see on the video I posted above, the Gen 3 destination chargers as the Supercharger station which I think are 277 V are free so that Prius in the video was getting their juice comped from Tesla directly and Tesla car, Powerwall and TSLA owners indirectly.
 
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