Chevy Bolt EV Forum banner
1 - 20 of 183 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I watched a video on the Kona from the Geneva Car show. As I understand it, it is almost identical in size to the Bolt. The interior appears to be a little more upscale, but not a lot, but for some reason the back seat room and the trunk space appears to be considerably less. It has a bigger battery, longer range (claimed), higher top end speed and priced about the same. Do you think this will impact Bolt sales?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,376 Posts
If the seats are more accommodating to a wider range of body shapes, then it will definitely take a few sales away. I can see a cross chopper favoring driver comfort over cargo capacity. I might've as well, but the 0-60 of the Bolt was what also sold me and it has helped immensely on crowded freeway traffic. Most don't expect me to close quickly and squeeze through a gap. I have caught a few "ricer" cars off guard and they have many times stayed along side me or tailgated me to see what kind of car I was driving. I think the major factor was the silent acceleration from 50 to 65 mph in short time.

I think the Kona is ~9.3 sec 0-60 with the smaller battery which is meaningless now that I write this out. The Kona with long range battery will be ~7.6 sec I think, which is not as fast as the Bolt's 6.5 sec (Motortrend measured it as 6.3 sec).

Surprisingly, that acceleration improvement stretches to the 45-70 mph band. I can definitely feel the difference when snaking through traffic versus my old Gen 2 Volt (0-60 of 7.5 sec).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts


Hyundai Kona will debut only in Europe this summer. It is scheduled to become available in January 2019 in the U.S.

Overall length 164.56 Inches
Overall width 70.86 Inches
Overall height 61.81 Inches
base model uses a 39.2 kWh battery/186 Mile range
LR model uses a 64 kWh battery/(+/-) 238 mile range
(Kona will use the same electric platform as it's twin Kia Niro EV.)

Price: Not set yet, but the LR is expected to start at $39,000 - $45,000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
862 Posts
Hyundai Kona will debut only in Europe this summer. It is scheduled to become available in January 2019 in the U.S.
Yes, but remember Hyundai seems to think the the "U.S." = California = Greater Los Angeles area (only place Ioniq is available).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
Surprisingly, that acceleration improvement stretches to the 45-70 mph band. I can definitely feel the difference when snaking through traffic versus my old Gen 2 Volt (0-60 of 7.5 sec).
That would not surprise me at all. Up to a specific speed, acceleration is limited by max torque available form the E-motor. Right at that specific speed, you need max available power from the battery to produce this max torque. Above that specific speed, torque will drop as the battery cannot provide enough power to produce max torque at those speeds (RPMs).

When installing a bigger battery, usually max output from the battery increases. But this is only noticeable above the specific speed referred to above.

For my previous car, that specific speed was 28 km/h. In serial hybrid mode, when the ice was providing additional power through the generator, that specific speed would increase to 56 km/h. But this was a hybrid vehicle with a relatively small battery (12 kWh). Max output from the battery was 60 kW (With the generator in play, max available power was 120 kW).

If I am not mistaken, for the Bolt the specific speed would be 68,8 km/h (max battery output 150 kW, max torque 360 Nm, tire circumference 2,032 meter, gear ratio 7,05:1). Above that speed, torque must start to drop as the battery is maxed out.

Note: I made the assumption that the 150 kW spec for the Bolt is based on max battery output and not max E-motor output. Can this be confirmed? If it was the other way around, installing a bigger battery would not make the Bolt any faster, as the E-motor would not be able to take advantage of the extra battery output.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
Hyundai Kona will debut only in Europe this summer. It is scheduled to become available in January 2019 in the U.S.

Yes, but remember Hyundai seems to think the the "U.S." = California = Greater Los Angeles area (only place Ioniq is available).
1) the Ioniq is available in all 50 states (the hybrid versions).

2) I believe (this is my personal opinion) that Hyundai consciously bailed on selling the Ioniq electric anywhere outside of CA because they were caught with their pants down (surprised) by Nissan and GM. It became obvious that the Bolt would ship on-time (big surprise - seriously) with a 230+ mile range and then Nissan announced the LEAF2 shortly thereafter (with no release date). The Ioniq electric was announced back in 2016 (and was shipped in Korea) - it wasn't until it was time to actually ship to the U.S. (?May-June 2017?) that I remember hearing the "only in California" news (and much later that "we really meant only around Los Angeles"). When it started shipping outside of Korea, it was obvious that 124 miles range wouldn't be competitive, so they concentrated on all the other world-wide markets (Canada, for example) where the Bolt wasn't available or very few were available (IMO). Late Edit: about 25K Ioniq electrics were sold world-wide in 2017, according to : https://pushevs.com/2018/02/22/hyundai-ioniq-surpasses-100-000-units-sold-worldwide/

I think that once a 200-ish-mile electric (any model) is being sold, it will be available across the U.S. (or *at least* across all the CARB states).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
...
Hyundai Kona
...
base model uses a 39.2 kWh battery/186 Mile range
LR model uses a 64 kWh battery/(+/-) 238 mile range
...
That can't be right, can it?

63% larger battery capacity, but range only 28% greater?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
OK, quick googling on my part ...

Range (WLTP)

Up to 300 km (186 miles) {39.2 kWh battery}

Up to 470 km (292 miles) {64 kWh battery}


The above has got to be the European-cycle guess-timate for range.


But I think that the biggest PLUS of the Kona over the Bolt is ... 100 kW CCS charging. (If the tax credit rules don't change for 2019 tax year, then it will also be 'about' $7000 less expensive than the Bolt.)

By 2019, 150 kW DCFCs should be available in the U.S. (albeit not *widely*). "Electrify America" is touting their installations : "Highway sites will be located along high-traffic corridors between metropolitan areas, including two cross-country routes, and will include between four and ten 150kW and 350kW individual DC fast chargers at each location before June 2019." (Although end of 2019 is more believable - heck, mid 2020 is more believable.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
OK, quick googling on my part ...

Range (WLTP)

Up to 300 km (186 miles) {39.2 kWh battery}

Up to 470 km (292 miles) {64 kWh battery}
According to Hyundai themselves:

Standard version:

All electric range (WLTP) 312 km
All electric range (NEDC conversion) 345 km

Long range version:

All electric range (WLTP) 482 km
All electric range (NEDC conversion) 546 km

I must say, I find the differences between WLPT and NEDC numbers rather small. For the Ampera E it is 380 versus 520 km.

BTW: They also spec:

Standard version:

Maximum Power 100 kW / 136 PS
Maximum Torque 395 Nm

Long range version:

Maximum Power 150 kW / 204 PS
Maximum Torque 395 Nm

Same torque, more HP. As state before, my guess is the higher output is purely related to the battery, not the motor itself.
 

·
Registered
2021 Sienna LE AWD "Mr. Sparkollz"
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
Kona's nose seems to be a few inches longer, which has to be at the expense of the passenger and/or cargo space. Besides, the Kona is an inch or two lower.

To sum up: the Bolt is a small CUV with a footprint of a subcompact hatchback. The Kona looks like a tennis shoe-shaped subcompact hatchback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Ya, the EV credit will be the biggest factor. But nobody knows what'll happen because nobody's hit the 200k yet.

For me, I'm not a fan of the Kona EV headlights+grille combination or the amount of plastic around the tire wells. If the difference was 10k, though, I might be able to put up with it. It may be a moot point anyways since AFAIK it hasn't been confirmed for North America yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,125 Posts
For me, I'm not a fan of the Kona EV headlights+grille combination or the amount of plastic around the tire wells.
Yeah, the Nike effect. First it was sneakers that started to appear with gratuitous lumps of clashing colored plastic, then it was razors, and toothbrushes. When it started showing up on cars I couldn't believe it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,510 Posts
Kona's nose seems to be a few inches longer, which has to be at the expense of the passenger and/or cargo space. Besides, the Kona is an inch or two lower.

To sum up: the Bolt is a small CUV with a footprint of a subcompact hatchback. The Kona looks like a tennis shoe-shaped subcompact hatchback.
If all three photographs are truly to scale, the Kona's cabin size does look rather small compared to the Bolt's.
 

·
Registered
2021 Sienna LE AWD "Mr. Sparkollz"
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
If all three photographs are truly to scale, the Kona's cabin size does look rather small compared to the Bolt's.
Here are the "blueprints", which I hope show the correct ratios ... the Cyrano de Bergerac-ish nose of Kona is clearly beating the cabin at a zero sum game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,963 Posts
Kona's nose seems to be a few inches longer, which has to be at the expense of the passenger and/or cargo space. Besides, the Kona is an inch or two lower.
I'll have to sit in both when the time comes. But it's logical that the Kona might have a larger "nose" than the Bolt, as the Bolt has a (electric) motor in all configs while the Kona has hybrid versions (have to fit a gas engine in there).

Personally, to me, 100 kW charging is BIG. If I ever wanted to use it for a trip where I would fast charge *once* (per day, my personal limit) then being able to charge almost twice as fast would be important to me (adding 160-180 miles in 30 minutes). Again, I'll have to see what rate it actually, realistically charges at (full speed up to around 65% would be huge - 30 kWh in about 20 mins).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,510 Posts
Here are the "blueprints", which I hope show the correct ratios ... the Cyrano de Bergerac-ish nose of Kona is clearly beating the cabin at a zero sum game.
Nice, thanks for sharing this! Yep, the difference in cabin size is even more glaring with these blueprints. Read in another thread that GM even gave up some of the Bolt's aerodynamics just to prioritize the larger interior. Definitely works for me. Thumbs up for the Cyrano reference. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
"The styling of the Kona Electric is nearly identical to the gas powered Kona and even with the large battery pack, there aren’t any big penalties to interior volume or its cargo space. "

Kona non-EV Total Total interior volume : 113.3(cu. ft.)
Bolt EV Total Interior volume: 111.3(cu. ft.) ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
678 Posts


Hyundai Kona will debut only in Europe this summer. It is scheduled to become available in January 2019 in the U.S.

Overall length 164.56 Inches
Overall width 70.86 Inches
Overall height 61.81 Inches
base model uses a 39.2 kWh battery/186 Mile range
LR model uses a 64 kWh battery/(+/-) 238 mile range
(Kona will use the same electric platform as it's twin Kia Niro EV.)

Price: Not set yet, but the LR is expected to start at $39,000 - $45,000.
The look is not bad, but I was never a fan of Hyundai build quality. The cargo area in the rear does look small, and I am assuming no frunk. It is nice to see the number of options that are coming available though.
 
1 - 20 of 183 Posts
Top