Thanks, this is good to see what appears at first look to be a list of straight answers on price (regardless of the exact price per kWh).Well You can Google for Bolt Batteries. Slow at work so I just google What it is for the New part at this date. The lowest I have ever seen is 12 K$ USD. as of 7/2019 the price shows up as $12.4 K plus only $200 shipping (shipping of only $200 seems very cheap for such a heavy part).
I am hopeful that 6-8 years from now if I need a new pack I could pick one up with more KWH for a lower price. A lot can happen with battery tech and pricing in almost 10 years.
4 kWh loss in 57,000 miles is in line with what Eric reported in the first post. 1% loss (0.6 kWh) for every ~8,000 miles.My Bolt has 57,000 miles, more or less. I just rant it down to basically no power, then blasted the heater and air conditioner until both stopped working, which I assumed was the practical end of the battery. I got 56.1 kWh out of it. So if you assume 2kWh is held in reserve that's not too bad. If you assume you start a new Bolt with 60 kWh then it's a little disappointing. But I'll have to wait and see if there's more degradation between now and 100k, or if most of the degradation occurs in the first 50k miles.
A Bolt EV is neither a Leaf nor a Volt...... I went through significant degradation on a leased Leaf in a hot climate. .......I have seen a degradation in useable kWh of what looks like about 10% (a bit hard for me to tell exactly, but roughly high 10s to about 9.6 kWh).
It's true that my back-of-the-napkin calculations could be off, and this is why I erred (or tried to err) a bit on the conservative side in projecting my perceived kWh and range losses. Much (but not all) of the apparent recent drop in kWh displaying on my dash was sudden and occurred in the days and weeks after a GM prescribed procedure. It is known amongst some of the Volt drivers to cause a drop in usable kWh in some cases (but perhaps not others). It is quite unsettling, especially since I am still experiencing some of the occasional power loss that is also a known issue. Still, maybe the summertime heat is so extreme recently that they are exaggerating the degradation. Separately, I'm well aware of the ups and downs of seasonal range losses and gains. This was already taken into account. I will admit that apparently losing range on a vehicle into which I have put more money than any previous vehicle by far has been a bit upsetting, so maybe I am jumping a bit to a conclusion, but I doubt it, especially considering the propulsion power reduced message continues, once in awhile. Indeed hopefully my Volt will pull a rabbit out of the hat and somehow recover a kWh or so when it cools down a bit, or for some other reason.A Bolt EV is neither a Leaf nor a Volt.
Tracking battery degradation is by nature inexact, "bit hard to tell exactly". Its necessary to accumulate many data over a long period of time before conclusions can be drawn. Until we see very significant battery degradation at well over 100k miles, nothing can really be said. Given the winter range of a Bolt EV drops to at least 150 miles just because of the cold weather, we should be looking for that type of range over the summer before we really start panicking about battery degradation. Just measuring range is very variable, as I have shown in graphs a couple of times here. If range is so variable between 150 miles and 250 miles winter to summer, 40%!!!, how is it possible to precisely conclude a battery degradation of 5% or 10% over a period of a few months or even a year or two of driving?
Certainly, if I begin to NOT see > 200 mile range when fully charged in the height of summer, then I might start to be concerned, but meanwhile its fine. Right now I see >19X miles when in hilltop, so I am not even in the least worried. I attach a range graph from my Bolt EV over about a year or so. Note the high variability of the measurements, which are a function of driving conditions, season, HVAC use, and so on. Most of these measurements are in Hilltop charging to 80% or so. Once the odometer covers many years and over 100k miles a trend down may or may not be noticeable.
My battery more or less stays in the "goldilocks" zone in that I charge to 88% hill top mode; my car then is at 75% while I'm at work for 8 hours. It's at 50% when I arrive home, and only begins to charge back to 88% between 2 and 6 am. In spite of being at 50-75 per cent for most of the day (kind of like a Volt's battery) I still have about the same degradation as others have experienced--just a curious observation.I've been optimizing my driving manner over the months. After having owned a Bolt for more than a year, the drivable range at full charge is about 10 to 20% better YoY despite observing a battery degradation of about 3 to 4% as measured by the OBD-II sensor readouts. Now that the habit is more or less settled though, I suppose I'll be able to get a rough "feel" of battery degradation by looking at the drivable range in the coming years.
So If the degradation is linear Eric should have a 100 K mile video soon talking about 12-13% capacity loss.4 kWh loss in 57,000 miles is in line with what Eric reported in the first post. 1% loss (0.6 kWh) for every ~8,000 miles.
I need to more thoroughly check, but I estimate I've lost 20% range on my 2012 plug-in Prius over the course of 85,000 miles, with 25,500 of those EV.
From graphs I've seen on other EVs, I don't think it's linear. You seem to lose a chunk relatively quickly (like 5% in 20000 miles) and then it flattens out. My guess is 10% but I wouldn't be surprised if it's still in the 8% range and hasn't moved measurably at 100,000 miles given that there are other factors like a software update thrown in there.So If the degradation is linear Eric should have a 100 K mile video soon talking about 12-13% capacity loss.
That's a good question. For me, at least logically speaking, the answer isn't obvious. 100F is only about 30 degrees from optimal and it takes less energy to cool than heat. On the other hand, 0F is 70F degrees from optimal. So I'd lean toward believing cold temps are worse since the temperature range is larger in that direction.Third attempt at a reply the site update giving me a temp difficulty. The question had to do with which is "harder" and more "wasteful" on battery and energy use driving / charging 100+ degree F or subzero. I would think colder temps are easier for the pack temp mgmt system to deal with.
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. After having a number of heat pumps over the years, one of the parts that tends to go bad is the reversing valve. In addition, they don't work very well in very cold conditions and you have to add extra components and/or programming to handle de-icing as ice can build up when heating in the winter. This likely adds extra cost.Well, warming the battery is no better than 100% efficient since it uses resistance heating (generates new heat). Cooling the pack can be 300% efficient since it uses a heat pump (moves existing heat). That's the reason people talk about wanting a heat pump heater option. It can be more than 100% efficient, and it should be easy to implement considering heating just reverses the direction that an AC unit operates, meaning most of the necessary heating equipment and cost is already sunk into the cooling system.
I've got no idea why they make AC only units actually. My house came with one, but why isn't it a heat pump? Should be a marginal extra cost to allow it to reverse and move heat indoors.
I wonder if you can get a my.chevrolet.com account. Not sure how that works. When I download my charging history it appears to talk to the car for the data. Would think you might be able to get at least one year's worth of data.I do wish we had access to the charging history, assuming it's recorded.
A few heat pump complications from someone that considers himself a heat pump advocate.I'm no expert, so I'm eager to know why all AC units aren't reversible heat pumps. Icing can be resolved with something as cheap as a resistance heating element, or briefly running in cooling mode. Not sure if there's something special about evaporators and condensers that reverse roles... I guess in my mind I'm thinking maybe 10% more expensive to make an AC unit be reversible, but that's based on very little knowledge of what the extra expense would be. If the AC unit in the Bolt was $300, I'd be willing to pay $330 to have it be a heat pump...
The other complication might be when you need cabin heat, but battery cooling.