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But it doesn't have access to the supercharger network !! :laugh:
 

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Really enjoyed watching this video over the weekend; nice to see the Kona with it's very impressive charging rate. Can wait to see how the Niro does head-to-head.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Great video and appreciative your objectivity. I laughed when you said, "I was sure I would return with 1% battery life left on the return trip." 1%! I don't want to live that dangerously----some day I will get more courageous.
Thanks! Yeah, we almost stopped about 15 miles earlier, but oh, well. For science! :nerd: :D
 

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Great video and appreciative your objectivity. I laughed when you said, "I was sure I would return with 1% battery life left on the return trip." 1%! I don't want to live that dangerously----some day I will get more courageous.
LOL! Eric is the only one I have seen go lower than me on SOC. Lowest I have gone is a bit less than 3% and I was suffering from range anxiety that time even though my calculations showed that I would make it to the stopping point. That last flashing orange bar freaks me out.

I think Eric is just numb to the feeling of anxiety normal humans experience ?

Later,

Keith
 

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One difference between the Kona and the Bolt is that Kona dealers are charging heavy premiums over list price because Konas are in short supply, whereas Bolt dealers are likely to give a discount. This can mean about a $10,000 difference in list prices and drive-away prices.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think Eric is just numb to the feeling of anxiety normal humans experience ?

Later,

Keith
I'd say that I'm comfortably numb. Haven't gotten stranded yet. >:)

One difference between the Kona and the Bolt is that Kona dealers are charging heavy premiums over list price because Konas are in short supply, whereas Bolt dealers are likely to give a discount. This can mean about a $10,000 difference in list prices and drive-away prices.
In some cases, it's been as much as a $14,000 difference. :eek: $8,000 "market adjustment" on the Kona Electric with as much as $6,000 off MSRP on the Bolt EV.
 

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I got to do a parallel drive with a brand new Hyundai Kona Electric. It presents a very interesting value proposition, and I feel that it competes well against the Bolt EV in a number of areas.

http://youtu.be/_Mpz4qQW_L4
Great video, and thanks for taking the time/energy to do it.

Regarding aero, I was hoping you were going to compare the under body of the Kona to the Bolt. I've seen some pics of the Kona underbody and it looked smooth and much better designed from an aero perspective than the Bolt. This is likely a major aero drag advantage to the Kona.

Of course its not impossible to modify the Bolt's underbody to improve its aero. Starting on page 6 of the below thread I showed a lot of testing and measured data showing substantial improvements to drag when modifying the underbody of my Bolt. This post was the 2nd version of mods in the mentioned thread that started showing significant quantifiable advantages to high speed efficiency (back to back 75 mph interstate tests on same road with/without underbody mods was quite telling). Drag Coefficient seems to be reduced into the 0.27 range with these mods.

https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/424365-post68.html

Some additional improvements were made after the above post, and aero hubcaps were fashioned and tested ... but I got no benefit from the smooth hubcaps on my Bolt with the other mods I'd done (did not test hub caps alone with OEM configuration). But if you do some testing on aero hubcaps I'd love to see your results.

Final config and some additional data with the hub caps in this photo link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/N62yBC8DKugCN8Un7
 

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I don't really get range anxiety. The worst that happens is the vehicle stops. You don't get stranded because it's not an island where there are no inhabitants. Forward progress pauses, that's what happens when you run out of fuel or electrons. Getting anxious about forward progress stopping doesn't make sense unless you're in the middle of nowhere and it's snowing, or you are missing something very important.

Once my friend's truck died in the mountains and we had to hike 10 miles in the snow to the nearest town in the dead of night to find a payphone to call his dad. Inconvenient and annoying, but not too stressful.
 

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I want them just to keep the snow out of my wheels. The snow drifts fill up half the wheel well then freeze to ice. The vibrations on the highway are awful!

I see a *lot* of RVs in driveways with extended half-circles of plywood protecting tires and wheels from the Sun. Probably work great for drifting snow, too.
 

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I don't really get range anxiety. The worst that happens is the vehicle stops. You don't get stranded because it's not an island where there are no inhabitants. Forward progress pauses, that's what happens when you run out of fuel or electrons. Getting anxious about forward progress stopping doesn't make sense unless you're in the middle of nowhere and it's snowing, or you are missing something very important.

Once my friend's truck died in the mountains and we had to hike 10 miles in the snow to the nearest town in the dead of night to find a payphone to call his dad. Inconvenient and annoying, but not too stressful.

The level of "inconvenience and annoyance" can depend a lot on the nature of available intoxicants, too.>:)
 

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Much thanks for the comparison video!

I don’t mind hearing how one EV might have some benefits over the Bolt, and vice versa. These kinds of videos are informative and interesting. It’s the same reason I attend an auto show. If choosing a car was simple and straightforward, we wouldn’t have so many ICE vehicles competing with each other. The same will go for the EV market.

I don’t troll Tesla owners online, but I do get a giggle when I read their defensive remarks and tones if anyone mentions a negative they’ve found with their car, Tesla the company, or Elon. I think my 2019 Bolt is better than a Tesla in many ways, and the ways that a Tesla is superior to my car aren’t priorities to me.

I have high hopes that the Kona, Niro, and Soul EVs will help make EVs mainstream for us price conscious consumers. This Bolt is the most expensive car I’ve ever purchased, but the smooth acceleration and regen stopping makes it feel luxurious. I’m pretty sure this comment can apply to most or all EVs, the EV driving experience is so much better than loud, vibrating, and gear shifts of ICE cars. I did not anticipate this, I bought the Bolt to help lower my carbon footprint.

It looks like GM will target the wealthy crowd by electrifying Cadillac. I will be sad if they stop making the Bolt. They similarly tried to upscale their focus, right before the recession hit. It feels so short-sighted. I think the decision makers just want to make a quick buck, then retire and let the next executives handle their strategy shortcomings.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Great video, and thanks for taking the time/energy to do it.

Regarding aero, I was hoping you were going to compare the under body of the Kona to the Bolt. I've seen some pics of the Kona underbody and it looked smooth and much better designed from an aero perspective than the Bolt. This is likely a major aero drag advantage to the Kona.

Of course its not impossible to modify the Bolt's underbody to improve its aero. Starting on page 6 of the below thread I showed a lot of testing and measured data showing substantial improvements to drag when modifying the underbody of my Bolt. This post was the 2nd version of mods in the mentioned thread that started showing significant quantifiable advantages to high speed efficiency (back to back 75 mph interstate tests on same road with/without underbody mods was quite telling). Drag Coefficient seems to be reduced into the 0.27 range with these mods.

https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/424365-post68.html

Some additional improvements were made after the above post, and aero hubcaps were fashioned and tested ... but I got no benefit from the smooth hubcaps on my Bolt with the other mods I'd done (did not test hub caps alone with OEM configuration). But if you do some testing on aero hubcaps I'd love to see your results.

Final config and some additional data with the hub caps in this photo link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/N62yBC8DKugCN8Un7
I missed this post initially. Nice work!

I definitely have some ideas for some aero mods, and it looks like what you did probably covers most of the options available before some serious cutting and modding takes place. Basically, everything you've done looks like it can easily be undone; however, I think the biggest gains would come from some more invasive modifications.

I didn't really have the time to get into all of the aero treatments between the Bolt EV and Kona Electric, and we didn't really have a chance to get the cars up on a lift. Maybe if I can get Hyundai to let me review one for a week (they still haven't gotten back to me).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Much thanks for the comparison video!

I don’t mind hearing how one EV might have some benefits over the Bolt, and vice versa. These kinds of videos are informative and interesting. It’s the same reason I attend an auto show. If choosing a car was simple and straightforward, we wouldn’t have so many ICE vehicles competing with each other. The same will go for the EV market.

I don’t troll Tesla owners online, but I do get a giggle when I read their defensive remarks and tones if anyone mentions a negative they’ve found with their car, Tesla the company, or Elon. I think my 2019 Bolt is better than a Tesla in many ways, and the ways that a Tesla is superior to my car aren’t priorities to me.

I have high hopes that the Kona, Niro, and Soul EVs will help make EVs mainstream for us price conscious consumers. This Bolt is the most expensive car I’ve ever purchased, but the smooth acceleration and regen stopping makes it feel luxurious. I’m pretty sure this comment can apply to most or all EVs, the EV driving experience is so much better than loud, vibrating, and gear shifts of ICE cars. I did not anticipate this, I bought the Bolt to help lower my carbon footprint.

It looks like GM will target the wealthy crowd by electrifying Cadillac. I will be sad if they stop making the Bolt. They similarly tried to upscale their focus, right before the recession hit. It feels so short-sighted. I think the decision makers just want to make a quick buck, then retire and let the next executives handle their strategy shortcomings.
Thanks!

No car is perfect, and even some of the things I pointed out in terms of differences are not inherently good or bad. I personally don't like the cabin configuration of the Kona Electric, but some people prefer it.

But then, some things are objectively good or bad. The Kona Electric's high-speed efficiency is objectively better than the Bolt EV's. The Bolt EV's curb weight is objectively better than the Kona Electric's. People who can't accept areas where their vehicles are weaker than competing vehicles are what I consider "fanboys," and it's really difficult to have reasonable discussions with those people.
 

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LOL! Eric is the only one I have seen go lower than me on SOC. Lowest I have gone is a bit less than 3% and I was suffering from range anxiety that time even though my calculations showed that I would make it to the stopping point. That last flashing orange bar freaks me out.

I think Eric is just numb to the feeling of anxiety normal humans experience ?

Later,

Keith

But five-door, you have the _all-time_ best description of going low: "I arrived on the fumes that come off of an electron when it is lonely because all of its friends have gone away." :) (am not permitted to post links, but this is in reference to your "1150-mile-round-trip-bolt-ev-yup.html" post)
 

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I don't really get range anxiety. The worst that happens is the vehicle stops. You don't get stranded because it's not an island where there are no inhabitants. Forward progress pauses, that's what happens when you run out of fuel or electrons. Getting anxious about forward progress stopping doesn't make sense unless you're in the middle of nowhere and it's snowing, or you are missing something very important.

Once my friend's truck died in the mountains and we had to hike 10 miles in the snow to the nearest town in the dead of night to find a payphone to call his dad. Inconvenient and annoying, but not too stressful.
I wouldn't call hiking around 10 Miles in snow in the middle of the night a pleasant experience! Also, getting stranded on the side of the highway can very easily get You crippled or killed... A Guy was on the side of the highway due to problems with his van when he was killed. Such a thing could also happen with an EV out of Juice.
http://www.kcbd.com/2019/02/21/man-dead-after-multiple-vehicle-crash-near-shallowater-wednesday-night/
 
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