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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've had my 2020 Bolt now for right about a week after trading in my 2015 i3. I thought I'd give my thoughts as to the comparison between the two so far.

I'll start off with a couple very subjective areas. So this is just my opinion.
-Exterior styling: I know the i3 design can be polarizing, you like or you don't. I loved the design language of the i3, I think it looks like a weird electrified cross between a Mini Cooper and a Beetle. It looks different, it looks fun, and it is at least unique. The Bolt looks fine, but it kind of blends in. I think the best part of the refreshed 2022 Bolt model is the headlight design. The current Bolt headlights just look a little too cheap and economy-ish and lets the rest of the design down.

-Interior styling: I might love the interior of the i3 more than the exterior. It feels huge when you're in it, it's very airy, and while it is weird, it has a cool luxury Scandinavian thing going on.

Now for hopefully more objective areas...
-Range: No comparison, the Bolt is on a whole other level. My brain is still struggling to adapt to the bigger battery. As a side note, I try (at least when it's warm) to only charge my car at work where it's free. With the i3 that meant hitting it every afternoon for a couple hours or so. With the Bolt, I was mad yesterday that the charger was taken all day and I would have to charge it at home--until I realized I still had 140 miles of range. I could make it a few more days before charging. Now, all this being said, if I could choose between the Bolt's 260 miles of BEV range, or get at least 150 BEV miles plus have a REX as backup, I might almost choose the REX route, just because it means you always have the backup of quick fuel stops regardless of whether you can find a charger (or a working charger). I think even the current i3 only has 125 miles of range if equipped with a REX so it's a moot point for now. I went to great lengths with the i3 to only run on battery, to the point that every now and then the REX kicks on and says it has to run for 10 minutes for maintenance. In January I ran the REX purposely because the gas was from summer of 2019. I'm very happy however with my current 260 range compared to my previous 75 miles.
Also, the Bolt seems to be better about maintaining range at higher speeds.

-Interior room, front row: i3. I don't think it measures that much bigger there, but the design makes it feel so much bigger in the front.

-Interior room, back row: Bolt, hands down. i3 wasn't all that bad, but a little tight for adults, plus no middle seat.

-Trunk space: Bolt has so much more storage space, it's so nice.

-Interior materials: Not something I would normally think about that much between cars, but the difference is striking. The BMW feels very premium, the Chevy feels like an economy car. Honestly the Bolt interior is fine for me, but it's hard not to notice the difference.

-Infotainment: Gotta give this to the Bolt. My 2015 i3 had no car play or Android Auto. BMW navigation is good, but entering addresses is the worst. I did really like the iDrive controller though. I listen to a lot of different genres on satellite, and it's easy to shoot around through channels. Also it's easier to use with less concentration. The i3 also had the worst voice recognition, hands down, of any car I've ever owned.

-App: This modern world is great right? Where we have apps that can do so much stuff. The BMW app should win this category, the remote features are free without dealing with onstar, and the current info and stats are so much more detailed (and the details load faster, not sure why since my i3 only had a 4g modem). The problem however is that for the majority of the time I had the i3, the remote commands didn't work. The BMW app has incredibly low reviews in the app store, with nearly everyone pointing out non-working features. Last fall they finally got it working on Android most of the time, and maybe a month or so ago it started working again with iOS. The app if anything is more important on the i3 as well, because there is no other way to start the precondition process now. You can schedule a precondition from the car, if it's at least an hour in advance. There is no "remote start" on the fob however. BMW knew it didn't work for at least a couple years and didn't seem to care. This is an important feature to this car and there is no excuse. So the Bolt runs away with this category.

-Driver assistance: Kind of a push. They offer for the most part different things. I really miss adaptive cruise, although it didn't work if you were driving toward a low sun in the sky or if you had a really dirty windshield (understandable). The parking sensors and radar on the i3 were nice. 360 camers on Bolt are probably better but I have an LT so I don't have that, and had I known the Bolt didn't have comparable sensors to the i3, I might've sprung for the premiere. Not something I ever thought I needed but awfully easy to get used to. Lane keeper on Bolt is nice although it seems a little sketchy. My i3 would also completely parallel park itself, hands free. I never actually used it other than to try it once, but I bet that would be good for some people. If the i3 offers the Traffic Jam Assistant in the US now (not sure, it was Europe only for my year), the i3 would win this category. If you're not familiar, TJA is basically like a lower end autopilot. It centers itself in lanes but needs a car in front of you to base speeds off of. And I think it only works at like 45mph or less. It can be hacked into earlier US i3's, there are some cool videos of it on youtube.

-Performance: Bolt is quicker and corners better. Noticeably so. Interstate on ramps are so much more fun in the Bolt.

-Suspension/ride: i3 handles bumps better, but I would take the trade-off with the Bolt to get the better cornering.

-Comfort: i3 seats are better. Before I bought the i3, I drove a then brand new, first-year Bolt. Those seats were awful. I'm glad to see they're much better in my 2020. But still not as good as the i3 seats. Seat heaters are also stronger in the i3. I'm not sure why anyone would use anything other than the highest setting in the Bolt. On the i3, when the highest setting first cycles on, it's almost too warm.
If you're in the back seats, the Bolt is more comfortable. i3 doesn't have heated rear seats (neither does my Bolt, but it's at least an option).

-Regen: Bolt is so much better. i3 will come to a stop if you are going up an incline or on perfectly flat ground. It won't if you're going downhill. The only adjustment is switching between the eco modes, which means you have to make other changes besides regen that you might not want. And you can't turn it off in the i3, which I'll come back to later. I love the fact that with the Bolt, I can use L and the paddle to get the amount I want. I might have used the brake pedal a couple times so far in the Bolt.

Now there are two things that I feel are potential deal breakers for the i3 and are both major reasons I traded.
-Turning off regen: You should be able to do this. You think it's not safe to drive a fwd Bolt in L on slick roads? Try a rwd i3. Let off the gas, car wants to go sideways before you can get to the brake pedal to lightly apply braking to all four wheels. There's a reason brake systems are biased 80/20. Rear-only braking is dangerous. So to me, the i3 is not a cold climate car, unless you only drive slowly in town and have really good snow tires. You can turn regen down, by going into ecopro+ mode, but that mode shuts off the hvac system to save power--not great when it's cold enough for there to be icy roads. The computer can turn off regen through traction control. If you hit a bump while decelerating, the regen shuts off (which sometimes sneaks up on you over small bumps when you suddenly lose regen), and when traction control kicks in it shuts off. So the software can clearly shut it off, but there's no way for the driver to? This to me is irresponsible at the least and at the worst it seriously endangers their customers.

-Cost of repairs: Insane on the i3. 12v battery die? Since it's a BMW you need a new one that's vin coded, for several hundred dollars. You'll need a dealer involved if you don't want cel's or other issues. I had a light come on that said there was a problem with the restraint systems. Turns out some airbag harness's internal resistance failed. That was around $2k by the time it was all said and done. Seems like a common issue on i3 forums. Or if you really want to fear your mechanic, google "i3 ac compressor failure". Apparently when the ac compressors go, there's no particulate trap, so they blow metal chunks into the cooling lines, including the ones in the battery, requiring replacement of the lines. One guy was quoted $22k to fix it. Here's the thing, the i3 is a cool design, a carbon fiber reinforced plastic body on an aluminum frame that should be able to outlast most cars even in salty northern environments. The problem is, maintenance costs will likely eventually exceed the car's value long before a steel bodied car ever really begins to rust. i3 forums are filled with people who had issues that not only require expensive BMW parts, but involve major labor because of the car's design. So, long story short, don't own an i3 out of warranty. If you lease cars, maybe it's no big deal, but I can't see keeping one for the long haul.

So long story short, the i3 has some definite upsides, but the last two issues kill it for me. There's some stuff that's so great, but then some design decisions that make no sense from any point of view. In the Bolt there are things I don't like, but generally I understand why GM made the choices it did, even if I don't agree (like the lack of adaptive cruise). I'm glad I have my Bolt. To configure a brand new i3 comparably to my Bolt, it would cost twice as much. But I think the Bolt offers much more as a car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I should have added that the Bolt speakers are better. I don’t have the Bose system, but the sound is still much better than the Harman Kardon in the i3.

And one gripe about the Bolt, no one touch up for any windows other than driver. I don’t know why, but once you get used to it, it’s a pain going back.

And a tiny dumb thing. Unless you’re locking the doors in the i3, you have to turn the car off twice. Otherwise the radio keeps playing after you open and shut the door.


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My brother in southern Cali got a BMW I3(w/ REX) to replace his Toyota Prius.
Not sure if he was completely happy or upset w/ the swap. Some of his gripes -
hi maintenance cost, tires. Front & back are different sizes; no rotations. Very
specific narrow tire models means you're stuck w/ the original tires.
 

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A lease-return i3 was our second choice EV, but after reading some of the maintenance horror stories, we're glad we chose the Bolt. Even though the net cost difference would have paid for any i3 repairs, never having to visit the stealership is a huge savings of mental anguish.

Agree, the styling is subjective, but we loved the i3 and the interior quality is a clear step above the Bolt.

jack vines
 

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My 2019 i3 was totaled out last Thursday after a wreck, and I got a 2021 Bolt Premier that night (I had been doing research on current EVs in case it was totaled). I'm not a fan of Tesla M3 (not a Tesla-hater either), the VW ID.4 was a bit too big for me, and the Mach-e was a little more than I wanted to pay. I loved the quirky i3 since it first came out, and I'm glad that I was able to drive one for 1.5 years. That said, I'm not missing it so much as the Bolt is so much fun.

My i3 was a REX as well and my first EV. I specifically got the REX due to range anxiety, and I regretted it within a week. I just didn't need it - my wife has a traditional ICE if we want to take trips. The Bolt's range is amazing, and as you stated, even at higher speeds. Just no worries in that regard compared to the i3.

I liked the seats in the i3, but the Bolt seats are absolutely fine for me (smaller frame guy). Are they different in the LT?

The thing I disliked most about the i3? The tiny little armrest. I like that the Bolt's moves forward.

Yes, the interior of the i3 was beautiful (subjective I know), but I don't feel like the inside of my car doesn't look modern. It certainly does. Just not IKEA-modern. The plastic is cheap(er), but not as bad as I was expecting.

I'm loving the regen in the Bolt, and the left paddle for additional regen is awesome!

Yes, I miss the iDrive system, but I'm doing a lot with my voice to control things. Like the i3, I'm thankful we have some hard buttons rather than a touchscreen for everything. What I can't get over though is that they can't / won't enable wireless CarPlay. I miss being able to just get in the car and go. I wish I could use the wireless charger that's in the Bolt's console, but the iPhone Pro Max doesn't fit.

I find the Bolt's handling to be better in almost every way. There's a brick road in the downtown part of the city I live in, and that was just brutal even going S L O W in the i3. Same for dips in the road at moderate speeds. Now, I can barely feel anything.

I had the stock i3 stereo, so moving to the Bose system is an incredible leap for me, even if Bose isn't considered the best. So that's what bass sounds like! =)

I had next to no safety features in my i3, now I have all that are available. And the 360-camera helps me with parking so much, especially now that I need to back into the garage next to my wife's SUV to charge. That caught me off-guard - what an odd place to put the charging port.

So, one week in and overall I'm a very happy camper! Grats on your new car!
 

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My 2019 i3 was totaled out last Thursday after a wreck, and I got a 2021 Bolt Premier that night (I had been doing research on current EVs in case it was totaled). I'm not a fan of Tesla M3 (not a Tesla-hater either), the VW ID.4 was a bit too big for me, and the Mach-e was a little more than I wanted to pay. I loved the quirky i3 since it first came out, and I'm glad that I was able to drive one for 1.5 years. That said, I'm not missing it so much as the Bolt is so much fun.

My i3 was a REX as well and my first EV. I specifically got the REX due to range anxiety, and I regretted it within a week. I just didn't need it - my wife has a traditional ICE if we want to take trips. The Bolt's range is amazing, and as you stated, even at higher speeds. Just no worries in that regard compared to the i3.

I liked the seats in the i3, but the Bolt seats are absolutely fine for me (smaller frame guy). Are they different in the LT?

The thing I disliked most about the i3? The tiny little armrest. I like that the Bolt's moves forward.

Yes, the interior of the i3 was beautiful (subjective I know), but I don't feel like the inside of my car doesn't look modern. It certainly does. Just not IKEA-modern. The plastic is cheap(er), but not as bad as I was expecting.

I'm loving the regen in the Bolt, and the left paddle for additional regen is awesome!

Yes, I miss the iDrive system, but I'm doing a lot with my voice to control things. Like the i3, I'm thankful we have some hard buttons rather than a touchscreen for everything. What I can't get over though is that they can't / won't enable wireless CarPlay. I miss being able to just get in the car and go. I wish I could use the wireless charger that's in the Bolt's console, but the iPhone Pro Max doesn't fit.

I find the Bolt's handling to be better in almost every way. There's a brick road in the downtown part of the city I live in, and that was just brutal even going S L O W in the i3. Same for dips in the road at moderate speeds. Now, I can barely feel anything.

I had the stock i3 stereo, so moving to the Bose system is an incredible leap for me, even if Bose isn't considered the best. So that's what bass sounds like! =)

I had next to no safety features in my i3, now I have all that are available. And the 360-camera helps me with parking so much, especially now that I need to back into the garage next to my wife's SUV to charge. That caught me off-guard - what an odd place to put the charging port.

So, one week in and overall I'm a very happy camper! Grats on your new car!
what happened?
 

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what happened?
I was making a left-hand turn from a stop sign, needing to cross 2 lanes of traffic going right. The lane going right closest to me was backed up as parents were picking up their kids from school. I started pulling out very slowly as I couldn't see - as soon as it appeared the be clear, I went to accelerate, and BAM - perfectly t-boned by a big SUV. I mean, it couldn't have been a more straight-on-centered hit. I was essentially stopped (creeping forward), and she was going at least 30 mph (limit there is 40, so she may have been going faster) when we collided. I'll say this - the i3 took that hard hit like a champ. Meaning, I'm alive and ok - no injuries. A little bruising from the side airbag, but nothing else.

Had the car towed to the BMW body shop and got all the insurance stuff started. Her car needed the bumper aligned, and 2 pieces of trim - about $600 total. When they did the initial estimate on my repairs it was $6K - $7K. Once BMW really got in, they saw the entire left side of the frame would have to be replaced among other damage. That took it to $23K to fix - and my insurance was still going to pay that. Two days later (last Thurs) I got a call that the floor area the batteries sit in/on "shattered" and there was damage to the batteries themselves. So, totaled.

I'm still so glad I got to drive that car. I loved how few were on the road (I'm in Dallas), loved the uniqueness of it inside and out, and it was very fun to drive. That said, currently, I'm beyond pleased with my purchase of the Bolt!
 

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I was making a left-hand turn from a stop sign, needing to cross 2 lanes of traffic going right. The lane going right closest to me was backed up as parents were picking up their kids from school. I started pulling out very slowly as I couldn't see - as soon as it appeared the be clear, I went to accelerate, and BAM - perfectly t-boned by a big SUV. I mean, it couldn't have been a more straight-on-centered hit. I was essentially stopped (creeping forward), and she was going at least 30 mph (limit there is 40, so she may have been going faster) when we collided. I'll say this - the i3 took that hard hit like a champ. Meaning, I'm alive and ok - no injuries. A little bruising from the side airbag, but nothing else.

Had the car towed to the BMW body shop and got all the insurance stuff started. Her car needed the bumper aligned, and 2 pieces of trim - about $600 total. When they did the initial estimate on my repairs it was $6K - $7K. Once BMW really got in, they saw the entire left side of the frame would have to be replaced among other damage. That took it to $23K to fix - and my insurance was still going to pay that. Two days later (last Thurs) I got a call that the floor area the batteries sit in/on "shattered" and there was damage to the batteries themselves. So, totaled.

I'm still so glad I got to drive that car. I loved how few were on the road (I'm in Dallas), loved the uniqueness of it inside and out, and it was very fun to drive. That said, currently, I'm beyond pleased with my purchase of the Bolt!
Sorry to hear that and at least no one was hurt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My 2019 i3 was totaled out last Thursday after a wreck, and I got a 2021 Bolt Premier that night (I had been doing research on current EVs in case it was totaled). I'm not a fan of Tesla M3 (not a Tesla-hater either), the VW ID.4 was a bit too big for me, and the Mach-e was a little more than I wanted to pay. I loved the quirky i3 since it first came out, and I'm glad that I was able to drive one for 1.5 years. That said, I'm not missing it so much as the Bolt is so much fun.

My i3 was a REX as well and my first EV. I specifically got the REX due to range anxiety, and I regretted it within a week. I just didn't need it - my wife has a traditional ICE if we want to take trips. The Bolt's range is amazing, and as you stated, even at higher speeds. Just no worries in that regard compared to the i3.

I liked the seats in the i3, but the Bolt seats are absolutely fine for me (smaller frame guy). Are they different in the LT?

The thing I disliked most about the i3? The tiny little armrest. I like that the Bolt's moves forward.

Yes, the interior of the i3 was beautiful (subjective I know), but I don't feel like the inside of my car doesn't look modern. It certainly does. Just not IKEA-modern. The plastic is cheap(er), but not as bad as I was expecting.

I'm loving the regen in the Bolt, and the left paddle for additional regen is awesome!

Yes, I miss the iDrive system, but I'm doing a lot with my voice to control things. Like the i3, I'm thankful we have some hard buttons rather than a touchscreen for everything. What I can't get over though is that they can't / won't enable wireless CarPlay. I miss being able to just get in the car and go. I wish I could use the wireless charger that's in the Bolt's console, but the iPhone Pro Max doesn't fit.

I find the Bolt's handling to be better in almost every way. There's a brick road in the downtown part of the city I live in, and that was just brutal even going S L O W in the i3. Same for dips in the road at moderate speeds. Now, I can barely feel anything.

I had the stock i3 stereo, so moving to the Bose system is an incredible leap for me, even if Bose isn't considered the best. So that's what bass sounds like! =)

I had next to no safety features in my i3, now I have all that are available. And the 360-camera helps me with parking so much, especially now that I need to back into the garage next to my wife's SUV to charge. That caught me off-guard - what an odd place to put the charging port.

So, one week in and overall I'm a very happy camper! Grats on your new car!
Congrats on yours as well, sorry you had to make the switch that way. Coincidentally, I had a similar experience going to my i3. I had a Fiesta ST which a large deer ran into the side of and totaled out. My i3 was what I replaced it with.

If I'd had a 2019 like you with the longer range, I would have had a harder time trading it in. I bought my brand new Bolt for less than I could get a 2019 i3 for, so I'm still very happy. And I am thoroughly enjoying the bigger trunk and cornering ability, and will be enjoying the front wheel drive next winter.
I think we have similar taste. I would love the Ford as well (maybe my favorite ev out right now), but the price is too much for now. I also am glad I got to have the i3 for the time I did, but it was time to move on. Agree on Tesla as well. I think the i3 takes what Tesla is trying to do with the M3 interior but does it better.

One disagreement though, I actually preferred the i3's armrest vs Bolt for resting my arm, although I prefer the armrest/center console setup in the Bolt for storage.

My brother in southern Cali got a BMW I3(w/ REX) to replace his Toyota Prius.
Not sure if he was completely happy or upset w/ the swap. Some of his gripes -
hi maintenance cost, tires. Front & back are different sizes; no rotations. Very
specific narrow tire models means you're stuck w/ the original tires.
I think there's basically one model of standard LRR's for the standard i3 wheels plus two models of winter tires. Mine had the optional 20" wheels, and there is literally one model of tire that fits those. And of course no one around here, including the BMW dealer stocks those. SO when I had a blowout this summer, I was lucky to be in front of a friend's house, where my car then sat for several days until tires came in.

A lease-return i3 was our second choice EV, but after reading some of the maintenance horror stories, we're glad we chose the Bolt. Even though the net cost difference would have paid for any i3 repairs, never having to visit the stealership is a huge savings of mental anguish.

Agree, the styling is subjective, but we loved the i3 and the interior quality is a clear step above the Bolt.

jack vines
Don't be too sure about the difference in cost covering repairs. The i3 can have some insanely high repair prices.
 

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and will be enjoying the front wheel drive next winter.
Yes, No, Maybe. FWIW, EVs are not built with the common FWD/RWD weight distribution of ICEs. The Bolt and the i3 are closer to 50/50, so the i3 RWD has better traction than some ICEs and the Bolt FWD has worse traction than some ICEs.

In the northern tier, good snow tires are a must on either.

jack vines
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes, No, Maybe. FWIW, EVs are not built with the common FWD/RWD weight distribution of ICEs. The Bolt and the i3 are closer to 50/50, so the i3 RWD has better traction than some ICEs and the Bolt FWD has worse traction than some ICEs.

In the northern tier, good snow tires are a must on either.

jack vines
I guess I’ll find out. If roads are actually snow or ice covered, I generally drive my truck anyway. But I think FWD makes me feel better than the regen-induced sudden uncontrolled oversteer of a short wheelbase car that doesn’t communicate much feel to the driver. All that said, the i3’s traction control is really good, and will pretty much get things under control eventually, but then it kicks out and you get sudden hard regeneration again and no way to try to match wheel speed to vehicle speed. And then the traction control kicks in again...


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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
One weird little additional difference. I do some drone photo/video work on the side. I would often use my i3 roof as a launchpad. While most drones don’t like taking off from metal surfaces due to magnetic interference, the i3 with its cfrp body was fine. And it had just enough curvature, the car could be sitting on non level ground and you could still find a level spot on the roof.

Tiny tiny thing, but I’m going to shoot some video later today and it popped up in my head.


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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thought I would add one more thing. In my roughly two weeks I’ve grown to prefer the Bolt shifter, which seems to put me at odds with other ex-i3 people around here.
In all honesty I think it’s partly because I don’t like the whole stop start system on the i3. I think the idea of a rotary shifter is better, but the BMW execution just isn’t that good. Add to that the fact that you have to turn it off twice. I also may have ptsd from trying to rock the i3 back and forth to get it out of some snow in my driveway.

I still think a rotary shifter is the better way to go though. I had a 2014 Ram with the 8 speed. That was a well executed rotary shifter.


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You think it's not safe to drive a fwd Bolt in L on slick roads? Try a rwd i3. Let off the gas, car wants to go sideways before you can get to the brake pedal to lightly apply braking to all four wheels.
You have to take the time for you foot to get used to the gentle action needed to drive smoothly in 1-pedal mode the same way you learned to brake smoothly (even with power brakes) back in the days when you first learned to drive. You don't take your foot off the "gas" to apply "light braking" - you should instead be gently releasing accelerator pedal pressure just enough to get the amount of deceleration you want.

It sounds like you're among the many people who have this misconception about how the Bolt's braking works in "L" vs "D" mode. There's no such thing as "light braking to all four wheels" in the Bolt because even in "D" mode the Bolt doesn't apply any hydraulic brake pressure until you're pushing the brake pedal down hard enough to exceed its regen limit. That regen limit in "D" mode is 66kW, almost exactly the same as the 70kW you can get in "L" mode with the regen paddle.

What this means is that "D" mode braking isn't really any different than "L" mode regen - if you need to decelerate harder than max regen is capable of in "L" then you're going to be using the brake pedal anyway.
 

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You have to take the time for you foot to get used to the gentle action needed to drive smoothly in 1-pedal mode the same way you learned to brake smoothly (even with power brakes) back in the days when you first learned to drive. You don't take your foot off the "gas" to apply "light braking" - you should instead be gently releasing accelerator pedal pressure just enough to get the amount of deceleration you want.

It sounds like you're among the many people who have this misconception about how the Bolt's braking works in "L" vs "D" mode. There's no such thing as "light braking to all four wheels" in the Bolt because even in "D" mode the Bolt doesn't apply any hydraulic brake pressure until you're pushing the brake pedal down hard enough to exceed its regen limit. That regen limit in "D" mode is 66kW, almost exactly the same as the 70kW you can get in "L" mode with the regen paddle.

What this means is that "D" mode braking isn't really any different than "L" mode regen - if you need to decelerate harder than max regen is capable of in "L" then you're going to be using the brake pedal anyway.
Is that true for the ABS system? I thought the ABS would engage only if the system detects force on the brake pedal. I think that's why the advice is to use D in slick conditions, so that braking force always uses the brake pedal and ABS can activate if needed.

Edit: Apparently, it's an edge case for an emergency braking situation - the "Brake Assist" feature in the owner's manual:
"Brake Assist detects rapid brake pedal applications due to emergency braking situations and provides additional braking to activate the Antilock Brake System (ABS) if the brake pedal is not pushed hard enough to activate ABS normally. Minor noise, brake pedal pulsation, and/or pedal movement during this time may occur. Continue to apply the brake pedal as the driving situation dictates. Brake Assist disengages when the brake pedal is released."
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
You have to take the time for you foot to get used to the gentle action needed to drive smoothly in 1-pedal mode the same way you learned to brake smoothly (even with power brakes) back in the days when you first learned to drive. You don't take your foot off the "gas" to apply "light braking" - you should instead be gently releasing accelerator pedal pressure just enough to get the amount of deceleration you want.

It sounds like you're among the many people who have this misconception about how the Bolt's braking works in "L" vs "D" mode. There's no such thing as "light braking to all four wheels" in the Bolt because even in "D" mode the Bolt doesn't apply any hydraulic brake pressure until you're pushing the brake pedal down hard enough to exceed its regen limit. That regen limit in "D" mode is 66kW, almost exactly the same as the 70kW you can get in "L" mode with the regen paddle.

What this means is that "D" mode braking isn't really any different than "L" mode regen - if you need to decelerate harder than max regen is capable of in "L" then you're going to be using the brake pedal anyway.
My reference to “light braking” probably should have been to “even braking to 4 wheels”. In the i3 there is no D mode. There is reasonably strong regen at all times. I had no issues getting accustomed to one pedal driving and rarely did I ever even use the brake pedal.

When you are driving down slick roads, sometimes something happens and you need a little more braking than what the regen provides. The problem is that in fairly slick conditions, by the time you can get your foot from the accelerator to the brake, it has already locked up the rear tires. That is not a safe design. And again, I’m talking about using the brake pedal to get braking pressure to the front axle as well.

You may have a misconception about how friction brakes are set up. When you press the brakes, the braking force (or to be precise the hydraulic pressure) is not applied evenly front and back. Generally speaking, most vehicles apply 70% or more of the force to the front brakes. A small part of this is due to the fact that most ICE cars carry more weight in the front, but the major reason is that as a car slows, the cg shifts forward (the harder the deceleration, the more it shifts forward) placing more of the vehicles weight on the front tires and drastically reducing the amount of weight on the rear tires. The change in weight has a similar effect on the amount traction that each axle has. Additionally, by utilizing brakes on both axles, you spread the work of braking over the traction of four tires, not just two.

It is not safe to drive with brakes that are 100% biased to the rear in slick conditions, which is in effect what the i3’s regen does.

Even decades ago when anti lock brakes first came out, they were rear only. The reason is that if the rears lock up, the car has a tendency to go sideways. If the fronts lock up, the car tends to go straight. One of those is generally a safer condition than the other.

This is why I generally just drove my truck when roads were icy. Occasionally I would unfortunately over estimate the quality of the roads.

Now I’ve been driving since well before I hit my teens. I grew up on a farm and have operated motorized vehicles of all forms in an extremely wide variety of environments, from cars and trucks, to tractors, combines, tandem axle trucks, etc. I’ve competed in organized motorcycle and atv races on dirt and pavement. I’ve slid a motorcycle, with the rear brake locked and the front nearly so, through paved corners passing other riders (Supermoto). I’m fairly experienced in automotive design and repair. I’ve rebuilt engines and restored cars, trucks, motorcycles, and even antique tractors. I’ve replaced entire brake systems and dealt with setting up proportioning valves.

So I think I’m fairly well versed in the operation and design of brakes in most conditions, included operating separate brake systems on different axles, as well as things like turning brakes.

Combines have used hydrostatic transmissions since I was a small kid, and they in fact handle very similarly to one pedal driving in an ev, as do many lawnmowers. In fact they typically require an even gentler handling of deceleration.

So as I mentioned before, sometimes I over estimated road conditions. I’ve done that, as a fairly experienced driver. Like many, my commute involves highway and rural roads with higher speeds. I’ve found that the i3 wasn’t safe in some of those situations. I think it’s reasonable that other less experienced drivers could wind up in similar spots.

I stand by my position that it is not safe to have strong regen to the rear axle only that cannot be turned off or at least turned way down. That is not a safe design.

If my i3 still had a warranty and had the Bolt’s option of D (and maybe a little more range), I would probably still have it.


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The i3 Rex would have been my second choice. But because I live about 90 miles from the nearest BMW dealer - that was what put the Bolt in first place. They are cool as **** but forums like this do provide a lot of helpful information when making a decision.
 
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