[Pvillerob]

From several weeks ago:
Drove a Bolt and a Leaf today. I have to say, I like the exterior styling of the Leaf better, but if I was going to drive one off the lot today? The Bolt hands down. Apparently, Nissan thinks everybody wants a black interior, as that is the primary and only color available within the greater Sacramento area. They found one a hundred miles away with "a lighter color interior" but it still amounts to a cave. Funny, because the side windows, C-pillar, and rear window design in both cars is almost identical. The difference is in the front windshield and front hood line sightlines. The Bolt interior feels like "Ahhhh" and the Leaf feels claustrophobic. The 2018 Bolt is also more nicely appointed than the rather Spartan 2017 model I saw some time back.

We're looking at leasing, since EV technology is advancing so quickly, it seems to make more sense to lease an EV than buy one. At the end of the lease, you can just turn it in and get the new model. Probably better range, better amenities.... Monthly payments are lower with a lease. It's hard to get a number outta these guys, but it looks like around $450/month is the cost. (Ended up being $525)

So as far as I'm concerned, the Bolt Premier it is. The torque is impressive getting on the freeway. I was up to 75 before I knew it. The new tech is nifty. And the steering wheel mounted re-gen paddle is cool, allowing you to slow the car and charge the batteries without using the brake pedal most of the time, extending range.

Speaking of range, Bolt - 230 miles. Leaf - 150. That's city driving. Highway mileage goes down to 100 miles for the Leaf. I assume a similar drop in the Bolt, but that still gets you 200 miles. Advantage: Bolt. There's even a DC Fast charger in Placerville. Of course, we'd have a charger installed in the garage. Haven't looked into that much yet. But I think the charger is about $600 and we have to pay for installation. Possibly including permits. ? The home chargers run off 240V 35 Amps. The DCFCs juice at 480V and 100 Amps. I would have liked to have spent more time with each car than we did, but I think the Bolt is the one.

 

[Lbrooks51115]

From several weeks ago:
Drove a Bolt and a Leaf today. I have to say, I like the exterior styling of the Leaf better, but if I was going to drive one off the lot today? The Bolt hands down. Apparently, Nissan thinks everybody wants a black interior, as that is the primary and only color available within the greater Sacramento area. They found one a hundred miles away with "a lighter color interior" but it still amounts to a cave. Funny, because the side windows, C-pillar, and rear window design in both cars is almost identical. The difference is in the front windshield and front hood line sightlines. The Bolt interior feels like "Ahhhh" and the Leaf feels claustrophobic. The 2018 Bolt is also more nicely appointed than the rather Spartan 2017 model I saw some time back.

We're looking at leasing, since EV technology is advancing so quickly, it seems to make more sense to lease an EV than buy one. At the end of the lease, you can just turn it in and get the new model. Probably better range, better amenities.... Monthly payments are lower with a lease. It's hard to get a number outta these guys, but it looks like around $450/month is the cost. (Ended up being $525)

So as far as I'm concerned, the Bolt Premier it is. The torque is impressive getting on the freeway. I was up to 75 before I knew it. The new tech is nifty. And the steering wheel mounted re-gen paddle is cool, allowing you to slow the car and charge the batteries without using the brake pedal most of the time, extending range.

Speaking of range, Bolt - 230 miles. Leaf - 150. That's city driving. Highway mileage goes down to 100 miles for the Leaf. I assume a similar drop in the Bolt, but that still gets you 200 miles. Advantage: Bolt. There's even a DC Fast charger in Placerville. Of course, we'd have a charger installed in the garage. Haven't looked into that much yet. But I think the charger is about $600 and we have to pay for installation. Possibly including permits. ? The home chargers run off 240V 35 Amps. The DCFCs juice at 480V and 100 Amps. I would have liked to have spent more time with each car than we did, but I think the Bolt is the one.

I am a 2018 Bolt Premier owner now but was a Leaf leasee in 2012 and I would agree with your conclusions. On the Leaf side the battery technology and specifically the non active cooling will kill your range and over time you will likely experience battery degradation. By the time I turned in my lease I was getting 65-70 miles non highway! In the Atlanta winters I would take it 40 miles down the turn pike to the airport and easily burn 70+ miles and that would include driving very cautiously 50-55 mph

Right now in the summer city driving I am getting 280-330 on a hill top charge( 85% charge ) I purchased as opposed to lease because the TCO over three years didn't make economic sense but that's your call. The open question is if the battery technology will be that much better in three years and cheaper ( not so sure).Theres a good chance in 3 years that the federal tax cut will be gone so if you decide to lease you are assuming that there will be 300-400 miles batteries available that will be 30-40% cheaper(required to cover the Federal tax credit going away). The other open issue and somewhat related to buy vs lease is the residual of the Bolt. Lots of good discussion on this topic and could go either way. Good luck with your search!

 

[Packard V8]

For true, the Bolt Premier is alone in its price/performance envelope; many think Tesla will never sell the promised $35,000 Model 3. The latest independent teardown-analysis determined they'd lose too much money on each one.

We're looking at leasing, since EV technology is advancing so quickly, it seems to make more sense to lease an EV than buy one. At the end of the lease, you can just turn it in and get the new model. Probably better range, better amenities....

That's conventional wisdom, but not true for everyone. FWIW, our son made the same argument when he leased his BMW i3. Today, he says he wishes they'd bought it.

Also, the Bolt does not engender range anxiety for normal use. Yes, EVs will continue to improve, but the 2017 Bolt will continue to deliver most owner's transportation needs for years to come. The theoretical improvements maybe coming in future years might be nice, but hardly obsolete the Bolt.

Monthly payments are lower with a lease. It's hard to get a number outta these guys, but it looks like around $450/month is the cost. (Ended up being $525)

When I calculated your lease costs, the Bolt would cost $19,000 to lease for 36 months. With the $7,500 federal income tax rebate, most can buy a Bolt Premier for $25-30K.

jack vines

 

[Lbrooks51115]

For true, the Bolt Premier is alone in its price/performance envelope; many think Tesla will never sell the promised $35,000 Model 3. The latest independent teardown-analysis determined they'd lose too much money on each one.



That's conventional wisdom, but not true for everyone. FWIW, our son made the same argument when he leased his BMW i3. Today, he says he wishes they'd bought it.

Also, the Bolt does not engender range anxiety for normal use. Yes, EVs will continue to improve, but the 2017 Bolt will continue to deliver most owner's transportation needs for years to come. The theoretical improvements maybe coming in future years might be nice, but hardly obsolete the Bolt.



When I calculated your lease costs, the Bolt would cost $19,000 to lease for 36 months. With the $7,500 federal income tax rebate, most can buy a Bolt Premier for $25-30K.

jack vines

Jack I think you are pretty much spot on. I might quibble with you on the 25-30k price. My OTD was 40,600 and I felt pretty good about getting $5200 off MSRP off my Premier. Once you factor in tax credit I am at $33,100 as Georgia has no state tax credit. Your larger point though about lease vs. buy is 100 percent accurate. I don't see a cheaper EV with this range in 3 years. In stead I think you will see high end EVs that compete with Tesla where there is no price sensitivity with that buyer and maybe a ¡title more range and all the bells and whistles . I think the GMs and the Nissans will struggle to bring down their costs so they can keep the price affordable with the tax credit going away and try and make a little money. I don't see a 35k car in 3 years with 400-500 miles of range so I feel pretty good about purchasing. Also based on the fact that GM has been resistant to flood the market with cheap leases, I think I am going to be pleasantly surprised with my residual in 3-5 years.

 

[CallMeBoltDriver]

That is a crazy otd cost. High local taxes and dealer fees?

 

[Lbrooks51115]

MSRP-$42,760(2018 Premier)
Discount #1- $2,850
Total Price-$39,910
Tax(7%)-$2,656
Total $42,556
Conquest Rebate-$2,500
Fees-$571
Total OTD-$40,627

Before Tax titleand fees I am at $37,458 which according to true car when I purchased average price was around $39,900.its come down a bit. Today according to true car

Average Price (before tax and fees) $39,267
Good Price-less than $39,085
Exceptional Price -less than $ $37,763
Price I paid- $37,458

Keep in mind that the average price in March was $39,900 according to Truecar so I will stand by the price I paid. I believe 7% tax and $571 fees is pretty average...Accroding to the publicly available data I did ok..

I should also mention that KBB is also consistent with these numbers as well.

 

[CallMeBoltDriver]

Spelled out like that, looks like you did fine, better than me on the base price. But taxes are only 4.25% in my area, plus $3500 came straight off the price courtesy of the state. Can't do anything about those though.

 

[Lbrooks51115]

​

Spelled out like that, looks like you did fine, better than me on the base price. But taxes are only 4.25% in my area, plus $3500 came straight off the price courtesy of the state. Can't do anything about those though.

Only 4.25% tax? Man I supposedly live in Republican Georgia....Too funny.