Chevy Bolt EV Forum banner

101 - 120 of 134 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Well, We're home from our Chesapeke Bay trip now. I see a lot of people say they've run the numbers and it's favoring driving fast, and trying to justify driving as fast as they can. Real world is, you will NOT be averaging your higher speed. I see this all the time with watching the same cars pass me repeatedly. People tend to run fast for a short jaunt, get out, mess around, repeat. An example of how hard it is to average a high rate of speed is easily seen watching Out of Spec's videos. He has no problem running 90 in his Tesla. He then posts his distance and time driven, and despite his love of passing everyone and everything on the interstates - and risking tickets in the process - he struggles to maintain a 60 mph average. He burns hard from charger to charger, getting slowed by traffic in between.

A thing I learned from our first trip in our Bolt is that ABRP doesn't have the metrics in for the car. We were consistently nearly double battery SOC from what ABRP assumed we would have, despite having it in their metrics we're a 55 mph max driver. We were immediately able to cut out an entire charge stop, and every subsequent stop - except for two EA stations - one for charger issues, the other for maintenance throttling, were able to be significantly shortened. I have zero doubts now that we have a good feeling for how this car works, we can do the exact same trip with a single charge stop down, and two back. Being able to consistently and steadily remain on the road is huge. 0 mph during 30 - 40 minute or more stops crashes average speed. I've read articles that were written regarding average speed back when oil was well north of $100 per barrel. One had it written that it took approximately 400 miles of steady no variation speeds of 70 mph to gain an overall average of 30 minutes on someone running 55. In addition to the major reduction in energy consumption, there are other savings as well. Shocks last longer, suspension components see reduced wear, and especially tires - tires run cooler, and last longer when one keeps speed down. An ICE car further checks off wear and tear on engines and transmissions.

I've been doing slow and steady for years. I see the benefits smoke the tradeoffs many times over. Those who wish to drive fast, more power to ya. I'll keep in the right lane and enjoy the scenery. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Voldar and ARob

·
Registered
2018 Bolt EV Premier Nightfall Gray
Joined
·
374 Posts
I'm in Santa Fe charging by the way I drove around downtown Santa Fe for half hour 45 minutes just checking everything out cool Little City
Ok, so did you fall in love with Santa Fe and decide to stay? Your blow by blow updates stopped here two days ago.

Did you make it to MN? How did the rest of the trip go?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Well, We're home from our Chesapeke Bay trip now. I see a lot of people say they've run the numbers and it's favoring driving fast, and trying to justify driving as fast as they can. Real world is, you will NOT be averaging your higher speed. I see this all the time with watching the same cars pass me repeatedly. People tend to run fast for a short jaunt, get out, mess around, repeat. An example of how hard it is to average a high rate of speed is easily seen watching Out of Spec's videos. He has no problem running 90 in his Tesla. He then posts his distance and time driven, and despite his love of passing everyone and everything on the interstates - and risking tickets in the process - he struggles to maintain a 60 mph average. He burns hard from charger to charger, getting slowed by traffic in between.

A thing I learned from our first trip in our Bolt is that ABRP doesn't have the metrics in for the car. We were consistently nearly double battery SOC from what ABRP assumed we would have, despite having it in their metrics we're a 55 mph max driver. We were immediately able to cut out an entire charge stop, and every subsequent stop - except for two EA stations - one for charger issues, the other for maintenance throttling, were able to be significantly shortened. I have zero doubts now that we have a good feeling for how this car works, we can do the exact same trip with a single charge stop down, and two back. Being able to consistently and steadily remain on the road is huge. 0 mph during 30 - 40 minute or more stops crashes average speed. I've read articles that were written regarding average speed back when oil was well north of $100 per barrel. One had it written that it took approximately 400 miles of steady no variation speeds of 70 mph to gain an overall average of 30 minutes on someone running 55. In addition to the major reduction in energy consumption, there are other savings as well. Shocks last longer, suspension components see reduced wear, and especially tires - tires run cooler, and last longer when one keeps speed down. An ICE car further checks off wear and tear on engines and transmissions.

I've been doing slow and steady for years. I see the benefits smoke the tradeoffs many times over. Those who wish to drive fast, more power to ya. I'll keep in the right lane and enjoy the scenery. :)
I totally agree with the ABRP assessment. I still can’t figure out where they took the averages from. And yes, 30-40 mins of 0 mph do have an impact on the average speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,273 Posts
I totally agree with the ABRP assessment. I still can’t figure out where they took the averages from. And yes, 30-40 mins of 0 mph do have an impact on the average speed.
I hate to say it, but it appears somewhat intentional. That's the only way to account for the fact that you can adjust the metrics or even your observed efficiency, and still receive overly conservative trip estimates. A lot of "EV experts" swore up and down how incapable the Bolt EV is of traveling long distances. If it turns out that there's less than a 1 hour difference over a 600-mile trip, even when compared to cars like the Tesla Model 3, it really invalidates those claims.

And make no mistake (much to Wolfy's point), in order for a car like the Model 3 (let's consider it the gold standard EV for travel right now) to really outpace the Bolt EV on a long trip, the Model 3 driver needs to be driving at an excessive rate of speed. People can make whatever excuse they want about "Well, everyone speeds!," but on trips where I am doing 75 mph on a 70 mph freeway, I am passing others as often as I am getting passed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
I hate to say it, but it appears somewhat intentional. That's the only way to account for the fact that you can adjust the metrics or even your observed efficiency, and still receive overly conservative trip estimates. A lot of "EV experts" swore up and down how incapable the Bolt EV is of traveling long distances. If it turns out that there's less than a 1 hour difference over a 600-mile trip, even when compared to cars like the Tesla Model 3, it really invalidates those claims.

And make no mistake (much to Wolfy's point), in order for a car like the Model 3 (let's consider it the gold standard EV for travel right now) to really outpace the Bolt EV on a long trip, the Model 3 driver needs to be driving at an excessive rate of speed. People can make whatever excuse they want about "Well, everyone speeds!," but on trips where I am doing 75 mph on a 70 mph freeway, I am passing others as often as I am getting passed.
Given they do let you adjust the program's metrics, that to me indicates that they are actually quite open to letting the user adjust the planner to their driving style. I'll be experimenting with the program after jotting my current settings at some point to see just how much I can move the planner around to match our driving style, and see if I can get it to match my observed numbers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
I kinda agree with you NewsCoulomb !

One year ago there was a test of the EV on the market available in Quebec. They did 900 km and they tested the charging speed, the efficiency and all other stuffs. And guess what ? Bolt EV (2019) was the winner. The ones who did the testing where EV people who either sell or promote EV on the market. They noted from 1 (best) to 5 (worse) every category they analyzed.

Here is the Whole info - french speaking though.
And here is a table with all that was said and the conclusions :
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,273 Posts
Given they do let you adjust the program's metrics, that to me indicates that they are actually quite open to letting the user adjust the planner to their driving style. I'll be experimenting with the program after jotting my current settings at some point to see just how much I can move the planner around to match our driving style, and see if I can get it to match my observed numbers.
Yes, it would appear that way, but when I inputted my observed numbers, I saw no change to arrival SOC or charging times/percentages. It was quite disheartening. Perhaps I did it wrong, but I don't think so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Yes, it would appear that way, but when I inputted my observed numbers, I saw no change to arrival SOC or charging times/percentages. It was quite disheartening. Perhaps I did it wrong, but I don't think so.
I did test the two : 184 Wh/km vs 164 Wh/km and there is a difference.

184 Wh/km

30174


164 Wh/km
30175
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,273 Posts
I did test the two : 184 Wh/km vs 164 Wh/km and there is a difference.

184 Wh/km

View attachment 30174

164 Wh/km
View attachment 30175
That's good to know. Just to note, when I tried, it was still the old interface. Either way, those numbers are still extremely conservative.

Based on my calculations from the metric system, you're looking at an average driving speed of 49 mph. There's no way a Bolt EV would be seeing 3.3 mi/kWh (184 Wh/km) at 50 mph, but I'm assuming that's ABRP's baseline?!?! Even the 3.8 mi/kWh is extremely conservative for 50 mph driving.

The time spent charging is inline with what I'd see driving 70 mph for 530 miles, but that would result in nearly 3 hours less time driving. :unsure:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
I think the 184 Wh/km is for 110 km/h which is 68 mph, not 50 mph.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,273 Posts
I think the 184 Wh/km is for 110 km/h which is 68 mph, not 50 mph.
I see, but even at 164 Wh/km, it's calculating a max range of 222 miles (3.7 mi/kWh) with an average driving speed of ~50 mph for the first 150 mile leg. Unless that 150 miles includes a massive elevation increase, that's still way off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,188 Posts
Yes, it would appear that way, but when I inputted my observed numbers, I saw no change to arrival SOC or charging times/percentages. It was quite disheartening. Perhaps I did it wrong, but I don't think so.
My problems with ABRP is that it is very buggy. You are encountering one of the bugs I have noticed. If I let it plan a route and it says I have to drive 45 mph to bridge a gap because I forgot I had the max charge limit set to 50% SOC, and I then change it to 100% SOC for he max charge and have it re-plan the route it will still have me going 45 mph on that leg of the trip even though I now have plenty of power to do the speed limit... it has a real problem with doing re-calculations when you make a change to the parameters... even worse, it doesn't do this ALL the time, just some of the time... so you never know if it will work or not when manually changing a charging stop, or changing any other parameter.

Due to these problems with re-calculating / re-planing a route after you make changes I no longer try to use ABRP for route planning. I plan my route with plugshare and then use ABRP to give me a fairly accurate but slightly pessimistic estimate of my consumption on each leg of the trip I plan out in plugshare.

Keith

PS: Another big flaw in ABRP is it defualts to assuming 50 KW charging speed at "non-network" charging stations... so all the Chevy dealership 24 KW chargers are assumed to be 50 KW chargers by ABRP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,273 Posts
My problems with ABRP is that it is very buggy. You are encountering one of the bugs I have noticed. If I let it plan a route and it says I have to drive 45 mph to bridge a gap because I forgot I had the max charge limit set to 50% SOC, and I then change it to 100% SOC for he max charge and have it re-plan the route it will still have me going 45 mph on that leg of the trip even though I now have plenty of power to do the speed limit... it has a real problem with doing re-calculations when you make a change to the parameters... even worse, it doesn't do this ALL the time, just some of the time... so you never know if it will work or not when manually changing a charging stop, or changing any other parameter.

Due to these problems with re-calculating / re-planing a route after you make changes I no longer try to use ABRP for route planning. I plan my route with plugshare and then use ABRP to give me a fairly accurate but slightly pessimistic estimate of my consumption on each leg of the trip I plan out in plugshare.

Keith

PS: Another big flaw in ABRP is it defualts to assuming 50 KW charging speed at "non-network" charging stations... so all the Chevy dealership 24 KW chargers are assumed to be 50 KW chargers by ABRP.
Ah, that would make a lot of sense. So basically, I'd need to clear out the trip, and replan the whole trip from scratch with the new parameters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter #115
Update.. I made it back to St C;loud yesterday ...then slept for 12 hours :sleep:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter #116
Observations

1. First of all the Bolt is an amazing vehicle! Instant torque and speed. It took me 500 miles and 1 Warning from an El Paso NM Cop to back off o_O(more on that later). The room inside the vehicle. I am 5'9" 165 and there must be 6 inches left from my head to headliner. Tall people will have no issues.

2. I am a now a master of the regen hand pedal :cool:, love that, brings the why am I braking coming up to the stop sign instead of simply regening and adding more "fuel" . If you're not using the regen pedal then you're not taking advantage of some free fuel

3. There was some post about inside cabin noise being loud, I was actually pleased with how quiet it was .

4. quality of interior parts was perfectly acceptable. Yes lots of plastic-like MOST vehicles but they some slight texture to help and the white checkerboard accents and blue trim led lights looked great and gave the car a bit more flair (for a normally stodgy GM history). really nice touch. Leather two-tone seats looked sharp and for me comfortable.



5 The single biggest issue with EVS (for long trips) is charging Times. hour + every few hundred miles is rough. I ended up skipping hotels for the last 2 days and simply catnapped at all the chargers. Battery density, battery swap higher charge rates.. something really needs to change in the next few years for the masses to find EV"s acceptable. I was ok because I knew pretty much what to expect ..and still it was too long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter #117
Instant Torque and instant speed . I drove a city bus for 10+ years and learned during that time to temper the urge to speed up here and there and maintain a nice gradual and steady rate of speed leaving stoplights . Giving the passengers a nice comfortable and safe ride...

I really had to concentrate to keep from taking off like a rocket in the bolt. I was in El Paso NM at 1 am , found my Chargers at Walmart/Sams club, and decide to go find a restroom first. I found 3 Gas Stations and they were all closed ..ma I need to piss like NOW and I just knew if I pulled over on a darkened street to go there would be a cop in the shadows and I'd get a ticket for peeing in public, so I take off from closed station number 4 , I kind of whipped around and back on to the street and next thing I know I was at 60 MPH in a 40, looked to my left and sure enough a large black SUV was parked in the shadows and he whips out on to the street ..I immediately started looking for a place to pull over before he even turned his lights and siren on:D

He was good cop, gave me a warning, I think his main focus was drunk drivers because he knew right away I was a bad guy out at 1 am .

The Bolt has actual power when you hit the accelerator ...it just flat out goes..instantly .I see Lots of revenue for Cities ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter #118
Tires ..the Aftermarket tires are really nice. quiet all-season tire that did not seem to affect range all.

and Battery has very little degradation after 3 years. The highest charge I did was 97% and that gave me 224 miles, the leftover 3% would give me 331 total miles compared to band new 238
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter #119
Ironman gen 2 Imove Tires.. well after 1700 miles + I can say I can recommend them. Nice grip, I didn't chirp the tires at every stop. Worked nice passing through a couple rainstorms and didnt seem to affect range all . and quiet tire over most road materials.
Iroman gen2

30176




 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter #120
Charging Stations

Stuck with mostly Electrify America..

Terrible EXCEPT their Phoone support.


The biggest issue seems to be that they are using Microsoft Windows lol ... all kinds of software issues. and of course the connection issue with the handle ...and that IS their style of connector, I didn't have the issue with a different companies handle ..the Whit handle style.pita the Black handles worked perfectly .


Always moving from pump to pump trying to get one of them to work, which is frustrating because just adds more time to an already long process
 
101 - 120 of 134 Posts
Top