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The bottom line: Today 75% of GM's 4,000 powertrain engineers work on internal combustion engine technology, and 25% work on EVs. Soon, those numbers will be reversed.

GM appears to be serious about their zero-emissions vision: the company is shifting 75% of its powertrain engineers from internal-combustion engines to electric vehicle development as it prepares to unleash of wave of EVs under the Cadillac brand.

The big picture: GM CEO Mary Barra has laid out a blueprint for shifting to electric, self-driving cars — a world, she says, with "zero crashes, zero emissions and zero congestion." That will require shifting resources to AV and EV development — at a time when GM is closing factories and laying off 15,000 workers, triggering the wrath of President Trump.


What's happening: In a meeting with investors this morning, GM is expected to share more details about its next-generation of electric vehicles — 20 EV or fuel cell powered models to be released by 2023.

- They'll be based on a flexible EV architecture, enabling many body styles in front-wheel, rear-wheel and all-wheel-drive configurations.
- Most of the EVs will be introduced as Cadillacs, a chance to position the iconic-but-tarnished luxury brand once again as a tech leader.
- The first model, a Cadillac crossover utility, will debut in 2021.
- A big focus will be on China, Cadillac's top-selling market.
- Eventually, Buick, GMC and Chevrolet will share the electric vehicle architecture.

What we're hearing: GM President Mark Reuss is doubling the resources dedicated to EVs and AVs — not dollars, but brainpower.

Its Cruise Automation self-driving unit is reporting progress on the AV front: CTO Kyle Vogt tweeted video of its driverless cars easily handling complex traffic in San Francisco ahead of this year's launch of a commercial robo-taxi service.
 

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Agreed. There is little reason to buy a Bolt other than you have an interest in BEVs and want the technology at a reasonable cost. Financially it doesn't pencil out.
For true. Several years back, I knew a BEV would be perfect for our daily use. However, with two paid-for ICEs in the garage, fuel savings would never pay for a new BEV. Finally, I just said fork it and bought a Bolt. Best car decision ever.

jack viens
 

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Agreed. There is little reason to buy a Bolt other than you have an interest in BEVs and want the technology at a reasonable cost. Financially it doesn't pencil out and the Bolt will not impress your friends like a Tesla will. In China people are buying BEVs because they really aren't given any other good options if they want to own a new car.
I agree and disagree, though it might be market dependent.

If we are talking California, I absolutely disagree. I bought one of the first Bolt EVs sold (i.e., no significant discounts), and my final price after incentives but including tax, license, and registration was about $30,000. Even if I were charging at home, it would cost me about 4 cents a mile (charging at work costs me about half of that). The cheapest even thrifty, no-name gasoline has been in California since I bought my Bolt EV is over $2.50 a gallon, and most often it's been >$3.00 a gallon. Charging on road trips has been equally cheap, where I'm paying about 6 cents a mile on average. Essentially, my car cost me just a bit more than the gold standard (Toyota Prius) to buy, and it costs me significantly less to drive.

Now, if we're talking outside of California, besides just the issue of charging infrastructure, the value proposition might not be there. Essentially, if we're talking about a ZEV state like California, I think there is a serious financial incentive to buy a Bolt EV. Outside of ZEV states, I agree. The reason to buy a Bolt EV is it represents the best value for BEV technology.
 

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Associating a Cadillac moniker to the so-called “BEV3” platform (if Bolt was BEV1, what happened to BEV2?) says GM is okay with going along with the rest of the industry (including Tesla) in launching BEV’s targeted in North America to the upper crust and priced accordingly. They probably knew that this announcement will reverberate best in English speaking North America.

Although it’s a risk here given that Escalade has been the only Cadillac holding the division together amongst decades of disasters on the car side due to bad design, overpromised performance and nichey nameplates not selling enough volume to justify modern assembly methods. At least Escalade can still make a statement with blingy 22” wheels as shiny as your front tooth and nose ring.

Buick will probably still prevail in China for upper middle class and above customers. For GM-N.A., they probably don’t know and maybe don’t care.
 

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GM has had no luck attracting people to an amazing five door hatch EV. I maintain the Bolt is the best, most sensibly sized EV we will ever see in the US. I am not counting ZEV state compliance cars.

GM's problem, in the US, is that most folks who like to consider themselves savvy don't buy GM products...most techies don't buy GM products. Is that fair or logical...probably not, but that is the case.

Their market is Trump voters, but Trump voters now call them Government Motors. I hear "liberal bailout..electric is communist" from Trump supporters constantly.
From what I know, most Trump voters belong to the so-called "middle class", the a largely silent plurality (you know, them boring folks who do all the work and pay all the taxes).

Likewise, I should mention, most Clinton voters neither live in their parents' basements, nor want the evil imperialist system to crash and burn before Lev Bronshtein's next birthday.

I would venture to say that the US middle market at large places emphasis on versatility, reliability, longevity and the TCO rather than high ideologies. Here is the best-selling vehicles of 2018, with GM vehicles in red: F-150, Silverado, Ram, RAV4, Rogue, CR-V, Camry, Civic, Equinox, Corolla.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
From what I know, most Trump voters belong to the so-called "middle class", the a largely silent plurality (you know, them boring folks who do all the work and pay all the taxes).

Likewise, I should mention, most Clinton voters neither live in their parents' basements, nor want the evil imperialist system to crash and burn before Lev Bronshtein's next birthday.

I would venture to say that the US middle market at large places emphasis on versatility, reliability, longevity and the TCO rather than high ideologies. Here is the best-selling vehicles of 2018, with GM vehicles in red: F-150, Silverado, Ram, RAV4, Rogue, CR-V, Camry, Civic, Equinox, Corolla.
I don't know if you were in on the conversation related to most popular models but the pushback to this commonly cited statistic was a flaw in that using model specifics to gauge car type/style demand was suspect. It ends up, currently, sedans are more popular than trucks, it's just that there are more different models so they split the pie into smaller pieces. I wouldn't have believed it if not for the link someone posted. I don't doubt though (and I think the numbers agree) that sedans are loosing ground. FWIW, I think SUV's were the most popular style, by a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Associating a Cadillac moniker to the so-called “BEV3” platform (if Bolt was BEV1, what happened to BEV2?) says GM is okay with going along with the rest of the industry (including Tesla) in launching BEV’s targeted in North America to the upper crust and priced accordingly. They probably knew that this announcement will reverberate best in English speaking North America.

Although it’s a risk here given that Escalade has been the only Cadillac holding the division together amongst decades of disasters on the car side due to bad design, overpromised performance and nichey nameplates not selling enough volume to justify modern assembly methods. At least Escalade can still make a statement with blingy 22” wheels as shiny as your front tooth and nose ring.

Buick will probably still prevail in China for upper middle class and above customers. For GM-N.A., they probably don’t know and maybe don’t care.
I think Cadillac was the best choice for this move. It was struggling anyway and those of us that drive BEV's know how smooth, quiet, quick, they are. All the advantages that a BEV has over an ICEV are perfectly aligned to the luxury car. I'm not proposing that GM focus on luxury BEV's necessarily. I'm saying that BEV's can handle the entire spectrum of what people look for in a personal vehicle better than ICEV's, other than that one nagging problem that will go unsaid.

I'm not a marketing guy and I realize the Cimarron and ELR was a disaster but I've seen other brands draw on their brand reputation and pull off a less expensive model with good success. Remember the MB 190? With the current pricing dilemma of the BEV powertrain at a disadvantage to ICEV's, it's likely that they can sell some of the costs via branding. They just can't stick different badges on a Volt or Citation and push 'em out the door. The Escalade is a good example of people dropping big bucks for window dressing wrapped in a Cadillac badge.
It may not be clear but my point is that Cadillac stands a better chance of selling a $43k CUV than does Chevy, especially without the Fed Cred.
 

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I think you probably need to be careful about stereotyping Trump voters regarding their buying decisions. Let me preface by saying I am certainly not a trump voter but my underlying assumption is that a Trump voter is going to base their big purchase buying decision on the same factors that any middle class individual: 1) Cost 2) Quality 3) preference ( SUV vs Sedan) 4) Practicality. Order will certainly vary but all will factor..If GM offers a vehicle that checks all the boxes I doubt that their political beliefs are going to translate into a brand perception that will prevent them from buying the car/ vehicle. I work with this guy who I would guess is a Trump voter. He is Mr. Texas. Loves big ( great guy). He has always driven a Escalade...
 

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The only assumption I make about Trump voters is that they were desperate and painted into a corner by a corrupt system that left them with Hobson's choice. All the third-party candidates received mainstream media coverage that was measured in seconds (not even minutes), and the Democrat nominee was wholly corrupt, disreputable, and had stole her own party's nomination. There are legitimate reasons 9% of the Democrats who voted for Obama ended up voting for Trump over Clinton.
 

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I guess this won't matter if they offer incremental improvements to the Bolt and offer it under Chevy. But if Cadillac will only get the new platform then I'm not sure why I would spend big bucks on a Cadillac compared to a Tesla. I have 24 Tesla Superchargers in the city where I live, next two two EvGo chargers. That makes my decision easy. I suppose if Cadillac were to throw in Super Cruise for free in a 44k model along with some other nice options that might be more expensive on a Tesla I might be tempted. But I doubt they will.
 

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From what I know, most Trump voters belong to the so-called "middle class", the a largely silent plurality (you know, them boring folks who do all the work and pay all the taxes).

Likewise, I should mention, most Clinton voters neither live in their parents' basements, nor want the evil imperialist system to crash and burn before Lev Bronshtein's next birthday.

Yes. I misspoke when I said Trump voters. I should have said Trump supporters. The angry folks I get to deal with probably didn't actually vote for anybody, but like his racist, xenophobic dog-whistling. The actual Trump voters I know are quiet, and quite happy with things as they stand right now. Some of them drive Volts, and have solar panels, because the tax credits and other benefits worked out for them.

And as I have said here many times. Most of my liberal friends aren't buying EVs either. Most of us are either in denial of the ecological disaster we are in the midst of, or feel hopelessly trapped.
 

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I guess this won't matter if they offer incremental improvements to the Bolt and offer it under Chevy. But if Cadillac will only get the new platform then I'm not sure why I would spend big bucks on a Cadillac compared to a Tesla. I have 24 Tesla Superchargers in the city where I live, next two two EvGo chargers. That makes my decision easy. I suppose if Cadillac were to throw in Super Cruise for free in a 44k model along with some other nice options that might be more expensive on a Tesla I might be tempted. But I doubt they will.
I personally don't care about having DC chargers in the city where I live (and I can't even charge at home). I'm much more interested in how many chargers I have in surrounding areas. For instance, if I lived in San Francisco, I'd be much more interested in the Dunnigan Electrify America site and the Prunedale Recargo site than I would in any of the more local chargers.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I guess this won't matter if they offer incremental improvements to the Bolt and offer it under Chevy. But if Cadillac will only get the new platform then I'm not sure why I would spend big bucks on a Cadillac compared to a Tesla. I have 24 Tesla Superchargers in the city where I live, next two two EvGo chargers. That makes my decision easy. I suppose if Cadillac were to throw in Super Cruise for free in a 44k model along with some other nice options that might be more expensive on a Tesla I might be tempted. But I doubt they will.
Will they still be offering EV's in other GM brands? Maybe the thinking is the halo EV will be a Cadillac and the EV truck will come from GMC, and the workingmans EV will be a Chevy, and the yuppie EV will be a Buick?
I'll have to re-read the article but it stands to reason that if they are going to introduce 20 new models, they all can't be Cadillac.

Not sure if this image will show up but there was a time when it applied to all the legacy auto manufacturers save Nissan. I'm happy to say that GM has turned the corner and I really think they are taking EV's seriously now. A lot will depend though on how they support the charging infrastructure. That is where Tesla holds a distinct advantage and until the average Cadillac buyer can travel worry free cross country in their $80k car, it will be a tough sell.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlSAuoPXoAAMPzo.jpg

I've mentioned before on another thread how the CTS-V I think it was, held it's own with a BMW 550i. I'm confident that Cadillac can put together a truly compelling car. Can that translate down to a $40k car without so much dilution that it's still just a Sonic in disguise?
I wouldn't put as much weight on fast chargers in the city. They really need to be convenient for interstate travel first, then the second tier of build out can be the ubiquitous corner station but I don't even think that's as critical.
 

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Will they still be offering EV's in other GM brands?
"Eventually, Buick, GMC and Chevrolet will share the electric vehicle architecture."

"The first model, a Cadillac crossover utility, will debut in 2021."

The good news is that half of Cadillac buyers are under 56 years old with the average at 47. That means they are more likely to be happy about the switch from ICE to EV and are in their prime earning potential years of income to afford one.

It's the oldest demo or one of them, but it's not quite "Grampa" level yet.
 

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The 2020 Cadillac XT6 Will Be Cadillac's Three-Row Crossover Money Printer




"The XT6 was revealed on the internet late last night and will be Cadillac’s big debut of the Detroit Auto Show, which begins in earnest tomorrow."

"Pricing hasn’t been announced yet, but I’d guess it will start in the mid- to upper- $40,000 range given the segment it’s in."

"Underneath it’s on the same platform as the Chevrolet Traverse and Buick Enclave, but presumably with more luxury appointments and safety tech.
Since we already know that the first Cadillac EV for 2021 will be- "The first model, a Cadillac crossover utility, will debut in 2021", how likely is it that this is the one they plan?

The price point seems ideal and attractive, even if we added on another $20K for full EV appointments. So it would be far bigger than a Model S at the same price, and just as large as a Model X but several thousands lower.

We already know that Tesla's planned Model Y is a crossover built on the Model 3's platform so this would dwarf that, again probably at the same price point.
 

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Associating a Cadillac moniker to the so-called “BEV3” platform (if Bolt was BEV1, what happened to BEV2?)
BEV1 = GM Spark EV, BEV2 = Bolt + 2 yet to be announced BEV's, 18 months from November 2017, (Slide 11 Nov 15 2017 presentation + PR dated 10/2/2017)

Still believed that the next BEV is a Bolt (BEV2) based CUV Buick

First BEV3 will be a Cadillac (Lux3 SUV, 5 person) Slide 14 Nov 15th 2017 presentation

Unless the "two vehicles in the next 18 months" have been canceled and they are going to skip right to the BEV3 platform, that is still my read of the tea leaves...

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news/news_archive.year.2017.month.10.html

https://investor.gm.com/events/event-details/general-motors-participate-barclays-2017-global-automotive-conference
 

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BEV1 = GM Spark EV, BEV2 = Bolt + 2 yet to be announced BEV's, 18 months from November 2017, (Slide 11 Nov 15 2017 presentation + PR dated 10/2/2017)

Still believed that the next BEV is a Bolt (BEV2) based CUV Buick

First BEV3 will be a Cadillac (Lux3 SUV, 5 person) Slide 14 Nov 15th 2017 presentation

Unless the "two vehicles in the next 18 months" have been canceled and they are going to skip right to the BEV3 platform, that is still my read of the tea leaves...

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news/news_archive.year.2017.month.10.html

https://investor.gm.com/events/event-details/general-motors-participate-barclays-2017-global-automotive-conference
They might have been counting the Bolt EV Incomplete with those three, so the third could still be a Buick Encore EV of some sort. They still have time to announce.

What I'm really hoping for that they might doe is update the Bolt EV's battery technology. They can't really mention that now, though, as they are probably trying to move as many 2019s as they can before the Federal Tax Credit steps down.
 

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BEV1 = GM Spark EV, BEV2 = Bolt + 2 yet to be announced BEV's, 18 months from November 2017, (Slide 11 Nov 15 2017 presentation + PR dated 10/2/2017)

Still believed that the next BEV is a Bolt (BEV2) based CUV Buick

First BEV3 will be a Cadillac (Lux3 SUV, 5 person) Slide 14 Nov 15th 2017 presentation

Unless the "two vehicles in the next 18 months" have been canceled and they are going to skip right to the BEV3 platform, that is still my read of the tea leaves...
I think they did introduce some kind of an EV in China.

Given the noise around EV's these days, I have made a rule: treat all upcoming miracles of engineering as vaporware until I can see a few of them in a dealership nearby.
 
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