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Discussion Starter #1
California has set some lofty environmental goals. One such goal is getting a third of its electricity from renewables by 2020.

More to the point though, Mary Nichols, the chairwoman of the California Air Resources Board, has taken the initiative to craft a requirement that all new vehicles sold within the state be almost or entirely emissions free by 2030. A big goal, but it would be cool if they could achieve it.

Sure, you may think that plans of that scale quite often fail to meet the deadline, but you should know Mary Nichols has been around for a while know. She’s the head of the California Air Resources Board since 2007, championing the state’s zero-emission-vehicle quotas and backing President Barack Obama’s national mandate to double average fuel economy to 55 miles per gallon by 2025.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/california-wants-all-new-cars-to-be-emissions-free-by-2030-but-is-it-possible-98589.html
 

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I agree that California has established such extreme measures to lower emissions, but they are forgetting other issues:

1. A large population of the emissions comes from trucks, not cars. One Diesel truck can emit over ten times more than one car. Buses also emit some, but they are most efficient for moving passengers. One bus can carry over 50 passengers and remove over 30 cars from the Californian highways and roads.

2. The emissions regulation have many exceptions, including classic cars (over 25 years old) which are exempt. This is why Californian have the largest classic car collection, and any car before 1990 is now exempt if it didn't have factory installed emission controls. Yet some shops that do engine swaps get away with this exemption and remove such equipment for more power.

3. Newer cars that are low emission or emission free are also expensive, so many who cannot buy them will keep their older cars generating emissions for more years. Rich people can buy more than one, but usually have a few that are not emission free. The regulations must give incentives to the low income owners to replace these vehicles, such as the "Cash for Clunkers" done in the past. Then increase registration cost for anyone who owns more than one vehicle.

4. One item not made public is the subject of "carbon credits". Tesla Motors, which generates no emissions, earns and sell "carbon credits" to other manufacturers and importers. And somehow Toyota managed to convince the CARB to allow FCEVs to earn up to four time more "carbon credits" than the BEV, and as such stopped their development of BEVs and future hybrids for the new FCEV Mirai. The FCEV does generate emissions (water vapor), but the CARB doesn't realize thet H2 comes from petroleum and natural gas, which does produce emissions. So if one Mirai generated four times the "carbon credit" of a BEV, then Toyota can sell four times more gas-engine vehicles and have a unfair positive "carbon credit" balance.

5. Some manufacturers wer producting "compliance vehilces" to sell only in California. Examples are the Chevy Spark EV, the Fiat 500E, and the Honda Fit EV. All of these were to gain "carbon credits" to sell other larger vehicle (example: SUVs, trucks, and Vans) that generate more profit than the "compliance" vehicles. Even Fiat was telling the news "not to buy the 500E because we lose money on each one". That has to end and make the manufacturers sell an vehicle anywhere, not just for California. GM will comply by selling the Bolt EV everywhere.

There can be more issues discovered, but these are the first to need fixing or elimination (such as the classic car exemptions). And since the great majority of cars in California are imports, I suggest increasing the purchase and registration taxes for imports (even if assembled in the U.S.). Then California may become cleaner as it needs to be.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think that all those things might be true, but it doesn't mean that the state should stop trying.
 

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Selling only emission free cars will be a lofty goal as I don't think a lot of car companies will be happy with the new regulation but it's a start. Manufacturers are developing new electric cars but there is still a substantial amount running on gas.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
California is a huge market though. They have enough power to put significant pressure on companies to change what they are doing.
 

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California is a huge market though. They have enough power to put significant pressure on companies to change what they are doing.
but its artificial. they're trying to force the market to behave how they want it to and not allow the free market to function as it should. If people want zero emissions vehicles they will go and buy them. Force feeding the population and the automakers only results in subpar products IMO...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
but its artificial. they're trying to force the market to behave how they want it to and not allow the free market to function as it should. If people want zero emissions vehicles they will go and buy them. Force feeding the population and the automakers only results in subpar products IMO...
I see what you are saying. I think there needs to be a balance. Obviously you can't make people want things that they don't, but there are circumstances where government intervention can work. For example, perhaps companies are not making products that people actually want, or perhaps those products are too expensive even though people want them. The government can intervene in order to influence the market there.

I will agree that the whole zero emissions thing might be too far reaching though. I like the idea of incentives rather than penalties in order to influence the market.
 

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California is getting aggressive in their pursuit. The state plans to create a charging network able to handle 1 million electric vehicles by 2020. They're also working with those in the business and public sector to enhance workplace charging and maybe even give employees incentive to purchase an electric vehicle.
Let's hope the world follows in their footsteps.
I can see that incentive starting with big companies, banks, etc.

For the rest, it will just be a tax credit, just not sure if tax credits will get any better than they are now. Might be room for adjusting it by income bracket, allowing the lower earning class a bit more of a break.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Will Californians just go to neighbouring states to buy cars if California bans vehicles being sold that aren't zero-emissions? I just don't see how this will work for lower income people, and on the whole across all different car brands.
 

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Will Californians just go to neighbouring states to buy cars if California bans vehicles being sold that aren't zero-emissions? I just don't see how this will work for lower income people, and on the whole across all different car brands.
Good luck trying to register the vehicle in Cali, that's one key area for them to target once a ban is in effect.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Good luck trying to register the vehicle in Cali, that's one key area for them to target once a ban is in effect.
They can't expect anyone who moves to California to give up their vehicle if its not zero emissions. There must be some loop holes or exceptions that you can take advantage of instead of just having to get a brand new car because yours isn't clean enough.
 

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Probably something, in that specific situation you might have to prove you were a resident for x amount of years with a purchase date to back that up.
 

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They have another 15 years to figure out all the fine print and before then, California will have most of the needed charging infrastructure up.
 

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Long way to go but hopefully we hear more about how they plan to control and change things over the years to meet that goal.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
They have another 15 years to figure out all the fine print and before then, California will have most of the needed charging infrastructure up.
I think that is a big part of this. Its not just having the companies make the cars through regulation, it is also investing in infrastructure so that people won't even have to have that as a worry in their mind. I'll be very interested to see, not only if they are able to actually create that infrastructure, but also what form it takes.
 

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California is a key market and im sure that with all the attention on them they have funding set aside to help this growth and to help them being the 'test ground' for this era of automobiles, would be a horrible move for them not to do this.
 

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Is California including Hydrogen cars in their plans? It's zero emissions too unless you count water.
I'm willing to be they are, as it seems they're the leader when it comes to alternative means of powering our vehicles, so even if hydrogen isn't a long term approach like EV's and Hybrids... it should still be part of the game plan for now.
 
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