[ArizonaJon]

A very short article. They prefer the Kona. But you can only buy it in CA.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...mail&date=022119&src=nl&utm_campaign=16069306

 

[GregBrew]

A very short article. They prefer the Bolt. But you can only buy it in CA.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...mail&date=022119&src=nl&utm_campaign=16069306

"It" being the Kona?

 

[ArizonaJon]

"It" being the Kona?

Yes, the Kona is only available in California. Later in Oregon. Per C&D they expect it to only be sold in CARB states.

 

[hatchy]

Sounds like the bev version Kona is really good. Good! More cargo space, less rear seat room than Bolt. A tenth faster accel, a tenth slower slalom.

The whole road trip problems thing, while true, isn't an issue for a commuter car.. I know I keep saying it.

The thing about the dealers making charging difficult.. yeah why do they do that?

 

[jim0266]

Not sure how the OP can say they prefer the Bolt when they gave 1st place to the Kona. The "dead" steering mentioned in the article is the biggest disappoint with our Bolt. When range is not an issue our Leaf is more fun to drive. It feels more agile with better responsive steering.

 

[redpoint5]

... and yet the Bolt slaloms better than the Kona, despite having a lower skidpad g-force.

I've heard people complain of a harsh ride on this forum, and I noticed it was firm on my test drive, so it's hard to imagine the Kona is firmer yet.

Also, I'm surprised it's more efficient too considering it's a crossover. I'll have to compare the Cd of both... from what I'm reading, Kona Drag coefficient is 0.29 and Bolt is 0.32. It also can do 75 kW on DCFC; something I plan to almost never do.

Don't care for the waffle iron front grill, but atrocious front ends are en vogue at the moment. Kona might be my vehicle if it can compete on price. Probably not as much room to haggle considering it's a limited release.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

The C&D article has some pretty funny numbers for the Bolt EV that don't match other reviews (and don't really match other numbers that C&D provided). Now, the Kona Electric could have over performed relative to its published performance numbers, which miraculously resulted in slightly better numbers than the Bolt EV's numbers that exactly matched published performance numbers. And despite C&D's acceleration numbers for the Bolt EV aligning with Motor Trend's (within .1 to .2 seconds) until 0-90 mph, where the Bolt EV in C&D's hands inexplicably lost .6 seconds compared to Motor Trend's testing.

The efficiency numbers also require explanation if the Kona Electric was, in fact, driven under similar circumstances to the Bolt EV. The Bolt EV repeatedly exceeds EPA ratings, so why was their 600-mile trip so much less efficient than EPA ratings while the Kona Electric's was better?

When I look at the results of the datasheet, though, it makes sense because without the stark difference in efficiency, the only ways the Kona Electric was scored higher were completely subjective. It's almost as though, if the Kona Electric is the decisive new "Bolt EV killer," it can't be just a little bit better. It has to be strictly better.

Now, it's entirely possible that the Kona Electric is as close to the Bolt EV in performance and efficiency as C&D claims, so I'll reserve judgment on the Kona Electric until I (or a trusted source) have a chance to test it. However, I know several of C&D's numbers for the Bolt EV are inaccurate (or at least lack context), so this article actually leaves me with less information about the Kona Electric relative to the Bolt EV than I went in with.

 

[Zoomit]

Not sure how the OP can say they prefer the Bolt when they gave 1st place to the Kona.

Right?

I've been reading C&D for 30 years but do not like their EV coverage. I started the article expecting a bloodbath of critique aimed at both cars and string of technical inaccuracies. After reading it, I thought it was pretty even keeled and can't argue with any of their conclusions.

If I were buying today (here in CA), I'd look hard at the Kona and compare the actual out-the-door costs. I expect the limited Kona supply will keep the dealer discounts to a minimum, unlike the $6k I got off sticker on my Bolt EV.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

Right?

I've been reading C&D for 30 years but do not like their EV coverage. I started the article expecting a bloodbath of critique aimed at both cars and string of technical inaccuracies. After reading it, I thought it was pretty even keeled and can't argue with any of their conclusions.

If I were buying today (here in CA), I'd look hard at the Kona and compare the actual out-the-door costs. I expect the limited Kona supply will keep the dealer discounts to a minimum, unlike the $6k I got off sticker on my Bolt EV.

Right now, our local Hyundai dealerships have a mandatory $5,000 "market adjustment" fee. You can't get a Kona Electric right now for less than $50,000.

 

[Stovebolt6]

I don't understand how C/D thought the Bolt couldn't do one-pedal driving without the regen button. Just put the car in L instead of D.

 

[BoltAction]

The C&D article has some pretty funny numbers for the Bolt EV that don't match other reviews (and don't really match other numbers that C&D provided). Now, the Kona Electric could have over performed relative to its published performance numbers, which miraculously resulted in slightly better numbers than the Bolt EV's numbers that exactly matched published performance numbers. And despite C&D's acceleration numbers for the Bolt EV aligning with Motor Trend's (within .1 to .2 seconds) until 0-90 mph, where the Bolt EV in C&D's hands inexplicably lost .6 seconds compared to Motor Trend's testing.

The efficiency numbers also require explanation if the Kona Electric was, in fact, driven under similar circumstances to the Bolt EV. The Bolt EV repeatedly exceeds EPA ratings, so why was their 600-mile trip so much less efficient than EPA ratings while the Kona Electric's was better?

When I look at the results of the datasheet, though, it makes sense because without the stark difference in efficiency, the only ways the Kona Electric was scored higher were completely subjective. It's almost as though, if the Kona Electric is the decisive new "Bolt EV killer," it can't be just a little bit better. It has to be strictly better.

Now, it's entirely possible that the Kona Electric is as close to the Bolt EV in performance and efficiency as C&D claims, so I'll reserve judgment on the Kona Electric until I (or a trusted source) have a chance to test it. However, I know several of C&D's numbers for the Bolt EV are inaccurate (or at least lack context), so this article actually leaves me with less information about the Kona Electric relative to the Bolt EV than I went in with.

I completely agree with what you said. It's like Hyundai decided to use the Bolt as a benchmark and then barely "one-up" Chevy in all categories just to say that it's "better." On paper, the Kona may be faster by .1 sec 0-60, quieter at 70 mph cruising by 1 db, and has 4 kwh more capacity but does that make it that much better than the Bolt?

 

[magrider]

It seems like from reading this article these car review "experts" never figured out you could put the Bolt in L.

 

[Coastal_Cruiser]

It's very simple to see which EV is best. The Kona has a 201 horsepower motor to the Bolt's 200HP. I'm selling my $thirty-something Bolt and buying a 50K Kona.

 

[cwerdna]

Right now, our local Hyundai dealerships have a mandatory $5,000 "market adjustment" fee. You can't get a Kona Electric right now for less than $50,000.

Holy cow!

A few folks elsewhere suggested I wait for the Kona Electric, but as I've posted in many places, I'd been highly skeptical about all the Kona EV and Niro EV buzz that had been in the press for months. The Ioniq EV had been "selling" in the US since March 2017 yet it for ages was (for the US market) So Cal only virtual vaporware. You couldn't even get one in Nor Cal. From the below, it was averaging less than 50 units/month in sales/lease.


https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
https://insideevs.com/december-2017-plugin-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/

So, I had no idea if the Kona EV was going to be in a similar situation. Even if it were available, stock and choices could be so limited that there might be no deals to be had vs, the heavy discounting on Bolts and full tax credit until end of March 2019.

 

[Fivedoor]

I love how they say "on paper the Kona has only 20 miles more range, but when the bolt has to stop and charge the Kona has 50 miles left"... no S>>> Sherlock! You don't drive the Bolt down to zero miles before charging, most people (other than me and Eric) get antsy when range drops below 30 miles... 30 + 20 is... 50!

Also, they don't point out what I consider the greatest advantage of the Kona, it's faster charging rate. From reading the article it looks like they scrounged around for free charging at dealerships where both cars would max out in the 20 KW range for charging rate, or perhaps they only found 100 amp (high 30's) and 125 amp (mid 40's) charging stations where both cars would max out at the same charing rate.

Anyway, the Kona isn't enough of an advancement over my 2017 Bolt for me to consider trading up. If it had 120 KW or better charging and maintained a rapid rate of charging to high in the SOC I would do it though. Any EV I get in the future needs to be able to achieve an 80% charge in 30 min or less. That is the biggest disappointment with the Bolt, I was used to the idea of 80% in 30 min from both Nissan and Tesla charging rates. On the fastest charge rate the Bolt can achieve (at 150 amps) it takes an hour and 11 min to get to 80% and on the 125 amp stations it takes an hour and 18 min... on the common 100 amp chargers it takes a whopping hour and a half!

Later,

Keith

 

[Jim Fallston Md.]

. But you can only buy it in CA.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...mail&date=022119&src=nl&utm_campaign=16069306

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/764632496/overview/

Actually I found one in Freehold NJ. but it is not in stock yet judging from the blank photo. Check out the standard equipment on the window sticker.

https://www.freeholdhyundai.com/ext.../windowsticker?vin=KM8K33AG1KU023792&status=2

 

[NewsCoulomb]

I love how they say "on paper the Kona has only 20 miles more range, but when the bolt has to stop and charge the Kona has 50 miles left"... no S>>> Sherlock! You don't drive the Bolt down to zero miles before charging, most people (other than me and Eric) get antsy when range drops below 30 miles... 30 + 20 is... 50!

Also, they don't point out what I consider the greatest advantage of the Kona, it's faster charging rate. From reading the article it looks like they scrounged around for free charging at dealerships where both cars would max out in the 20 KW range for charging rate, or perhaps they only found 100 amp (high 30's) and 125 amp (mid 40's) charging stations where both cars would max out at the same charing rate.

Anyway, the Kona isn't enough of an advancement over my 2017 Bolt for me to consider trading up. If it had 120 KW or better charging and maintained a rapid rate of charging to high in the SOC I would do it though. Any EV I get in the future needs to be able to achieve an 80% charge in 30 min or less. That is the biggest disappointment with the Bolt, I was used to the idea of 80% in 30 min from both Nissan and Tesla charging rates. On the fastest charge rate the Bolt can achieve (at 150 amps) it takes an hour and 11 min to get to 80% and on the 125 amp stations it takes an hour and 18 min... on the common 100 amp chargers it takes a whopping hour and a half!

Later,

Keith

Where they were testing, there aren't any >125 A chargers available yet, so the faster charging rate of the Kona Electric wouldn't be apparent. Also, I do wonder whether they were using the GOM because they do not operate the same. The Bolt EV's Range Estimator is far more conservative in the upper 3/4 of the battery and more realistic in the last 1/4.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

Holy cow!

A few folks elsewhere suggested I wait for the Kona Electric, but as I've posted in many places, I'd been highly skeptical about all the Kona EV and Niro EV buzz that had been in the press for months. The Ioniq EV had been "selling" in the US since March 2017 yet it for ages was (for the US market) So Cal only virtual vaporware. You couldn't even get one in Nor Cal. From the below, it was averaging less than 50 units/month in sales/lease.


https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
https://insideevs.com/december-2017-plugin-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/

So, I had no idea if the Kona EV was going to be in a similar situation. Even if it were available, stock and choices could be so limited that there might be no deals to be had vs, the heavy discounting on Bolts and full tax credit until end of March 2019.

The thing for me is, the Kona Electric really isn't an upgrade to the Bolt EV. It's a give and take. Now, for individuals who value the features the Kona Electric has that the Bolt EV doesn't, it would be an upgrade. But the same would be true for the people who value the Bolt EV's features that the Kona Electric doesn't have.

To me, the Kona Electric serves the primary purpose of getting people who couldn't get over their brand bias against GM into an EV. Mission accomplished.

However, if we want to look forward to a vehicle that is, in my opinion, and all-around improvement over the Bolt EV, we're waiting on the Kia Niro EV. If GM plans to refresh the Bolt EV, it's the Niro EV they need to outclass, not the Kona Electric.

 

[rgmichel]

However, if we want to look forward to a vehicle that is, in my opinion, and all-around improvement over the Bolt EV, we're waiting on the Kia Niro EV. If GM plans to refresh the Bolt EV, it's the Niro EV they need to outclass, not the Kona Electric.

I will not replace my Bolt EV with another electric unless it can do two things. First, have 100 miles more range than my Bolt EV, and has a tow rating of about 3000 lbs or more. The former is more important than the latter. Its really tough to imagine a better car in its price range than the Bolt EV, particularly the regen braking. However, if you feel you do not fit well in the Bolt's seats.....

 

[TDIwyse]

...
Also, I'm surprised it's more efficient too considering it's a crossover. I'll have to compare the Cd of both... from what I'm reading, Kona Drag coefficient is 0.29 and Bolt is 0.32....

The production version of the Bolt ended up with a 0.308 Cd: https://gm-volt.com/2017/01/30/2017-chevy-bolt-ev-less-drag-originally-believed/

In an interview last week, Norris said the .32 coefficient quoted by Automotive News last summer was actually the original engineering design target for the car rather than the final measured result.

When pre-production prototypes were revealed in January 2016 the wind tunnel testing was coming in at .312, as Car and Driver magazine reported at the time. With the final production headlight lenses and other exterior parts in place on the car it has since fallen to .308.

The Kona benefits from a much better underbody configuration that is basically flat. The Bolt has a very rough underbody after the front bottom aero cover and a horrible parachute like cavity in the back bumper transition area. If the testing was done at higher speeds, the Kona would have the advantage from an aero perspective and therefore have an easier time being more efficient than the Bolt.

I was able to hand make and fit plastic underpanels that made my Bolt have a flat underbody which measurably improved aerodynamic drag. But that was a lot of fussing around that most people wouldn't want to attempt, so I like that the Kona has implemented a better aero underbody right from the factory.

Now if someone can figure out a good way to lower the roof on the Bolt and reduce its frontal area, then we could really start to see some high speed efficiency improvements. I'd glady give up 3 inches of headroom and for a reduction in aero drag and weight.