[Voldar]

I got a call two days ago from my favorite GM dealership about my reservation for a Blazer EV RS. They told me they are ready to take my order and that I might have it in 3-4 months. I declined and told them that I was expecting their call in summer, not in winter.

Marra now explains that they are behind because of a mishap. And that the Bolt Ultium edition will be back in 2025. I pretty much doubt it, although I wish it did. I see people talking about LFP batteries, GM never said anything about LFP until now. Ford did. They have the Bolt platform already, adapting it to Ultium shouldn’t be too much, not 2 years worth of time.
Between now and then, it may very well happen that the Bolt will be one between the others, while in 2017 was the only one who could drive 200+ miles and not called Tesla. In fact, that’s why I bought it in the first place. I trusted GM at the time more than Tesla, given the experience I had with the Volt. But now, I am sorry, I can no longer see GM as a real leader in EV world. It could be, since 2007 the idea of an EV emerged, but since then, more than a decade has passed and we still get nothing-burgers. The Bolt had the ingredients to open the gate for EVs in the houses of every American, they decided to kill it. And it was mentioned, only the infuriated owners made GM to change its mind, but don’t bet it is really a change.

 

[ARob]

Understood on all counts and I did read the quotes, if you're updating the chemistry and beefing up the powertrain components for faster CCS, why are you not then going to do the other little things that equate to tremendous manufacturing cost savings since you're already sinking the R&D into the other components.

It's going to be like a BEV2.5 where they could have just reconfigured the intentionally modular ultium components otherwise? That seems silly.

I dunno, we're gonna find out soon. Just I'm left confused at this very moment as to what kind of car is (probably not) going to appear in 2025 (really 26).

The product would even be better because of winter performance from the ultium heat management system.

If I am not mistaken, there are LFP advances that are driving cost down without sacrificing range as much as in the past... I think Ford is going with LFP and seeing similar range with MME?

I can't put my fingers on the numbers at the moment, but based on NMC specs with Ultium models currently hitting the market, my calculations were coming up with more capacity and range for the Ultium Bolt, something like 72kWh using NMC. If they got 65kWh out of LFP in the same space, range might be slightly better than current Bolts if the motors or other components were more efficient? Even if the range remained about the same as current Bolts, improved charging speeds would bring very useful improvements. And as you say, better heat management will help with winter range.

I don't think confused is the right term, but I get where you are coming from. There are a lot of unknowns on how this will turn out, and a lot of speculation in the meantime.

 

[SpicyBolt]

I got a call two days ago from my favorite GM dealership about my reservation for a Blazer EV RS. They told me they are ready to take my order and that I might have it in 3-4 months. I declined and told them that I was expecting their call in summer, not in winter.

Everyone is saying the Blazer EV is much too expensive. That means they should be collecting dust on dealers lots. I know you don't want one anymore but why the 3-4 month wait? Is it because Canada?

Cargurus US:

I'm just as disappointed as you are with GM right now, but our 2023 EUV will last a good long time. GM has plenty of time to fix things and produce our next EV. I'm not giving up on them just yet.

 

[atc98092]

They have the Bolt platform already, adapting it to Ultium shouldn’t be too much, not 2 years worth of time.

Even assuming the entire assembly line can be used as is for the new model, they still have to pack it up at Orion, move it to the new assembly location (rumored to be Kansas City) and set it all back up and get it running again. That won't take two years, no. But they said the car will be back in 2025, which in theory is only a touch over 12 months away. It's going to depend on what they mean exactly about when in 2025 it's available. And since they are changing the platform over to Ultium, there's going to be some changes that have to be made. Hopefully that means faster DC charging, but from reports it will mean a LFP battery pack. That's a negative in that LFP isn't as energy dense as the current pack, but a positive that it is happy being charged to 100% all the time. It's possible that the Bolt ends up with a net increase in useful driving range (charging the current pack to 80% and the new one to 100%).

 

[jefro]

Every day we seen new progress on LiFePo4. Some getting close to Lithium ion and much more resistant to fires. Guess one will have to maybe use more energy to warm it up in winter?

 

[Shark]

Hoping they drop it down to maybe a 40 kwh and improve the fast charging. Save weight. Save cost. Won't matter if the chargi g could be improved to like 100 kw. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

[cdub490]

With Android Auto and Apple Car play please

With improved suspension for me, please!☺ I don't need to feel every bump and hump in the 🛣.

 

[LarryO]

GM has said that all future EVs will not have CarPlay functionality. As you noted, it's not a restriction on the Android Automotive software, and other brands that use Android Automotive have CarPlay support. This is simply GM attempting to force the owner to use (and pay for) a data connection for the car and use only the apps they permit. It's all about the monetization of the dash board.

This is from the 2024 Blazer EV user guide.

"The infotainment system comes with Google built-in† compatibility, which offers a variety of entertainment, communication and vehicle options. Touch an application icon on the infotainment touchscreen to access an item. You can use simple gestures on the touchscreen, such as tap, drag, pinch and spread, to interact with the system. Link a compatible phone or portable audio player to the system using a Bluetooth or USB connection. For additional information, or visit chevrolet.com/support "

GTK_2024_Chevrolet_Blazer_EV_85512549_A.pdf

I have not been able to find an accurate review so far to figure out all the ins and outs of this. I imagine that there is some level of complexity involved.

 

[Voldar]

But they said the car will be back in 2025

That's a whole 2024 and another whole 2025. Just look at Blazer EV RS - it was supposed to be ready for order in Summer 2023 and the rest in Winter 2023/Spring 2024. We are now in winter 2023 and no one can order anything but an RS. As I said, I hope it will work better once they get their sh!t together.

 

[atc98092]

That's a whole 2024 and another whole 2025. Just look at Blazer EV RS - it was supposed to be ready for order in Summer 2023 and the rest in Winter 2023/Spring 2024. We are now in winter 2023 and no one can order anything but an RS. As I said, I hope it will work better once they get their sh!t together.

But we have no idea "when" in 2025 it will be available. As @ARob mentioned, when they talk years they are usually referring to model years. So a 2025 model might be available by the end of 2024. Yes, a pessimistic view would be December 2025, and it could end up being accurate. But until they release more information we're all guessing.

 

[SpicyBolt]

That's a whole 2024 and another whole 2025. Just look at Blazer EV RS - it was supposed to be ready for order in Summer 2023 and the rest in Winter 2023/Spring 2024. We are now in winter 2023 and no one can order anything but an RS. As I said, I hope it will work better once they get their sh!t together.

At least we know by then it's gotta come with a NACS port.

 

[Voldar]

If they got 65kWh out of LFP in the same space, range might be slightly better than current Bolts if the motors or other components were more efficient?

I doubt they can do it in the same space for the same amount of kWh. The LFP are known as less "efficient" (lower density) vs NMC so I would think the LFP battery would be of the same size as the one of the Tesla M3 Standard Range : around 55-60 kWh. If the charging speed would be about the same as the M3 LFP (170 kW peak) that would be awesome. The Bolt 2025 version would be heavier though, so less efficient, but still very good. One thing that GM has to iron out is the LFP during cold weather. Tesla had real problems with this issue but finally found a solution after 3-4 months by increasing the temperature of the cells. The LFP Tesla Model Y made in Germany (4680 cells) although its charging speed is 170 kW max, is the fastest battery to charge. 10 to 100% in 45 minutes.

 

[ARob]

I doubt they can do it in the same space for the same amount of kWh.

I get that, but Ultium packs are presumably more compact than BEV2 packs. My original estimate for an Ultium Bolt pack was for about 70kWh based on specs for Ultium cells/modules. Thus, my comment that a 65 kWh LFP pack might be possible.

There is little doubt the chassis will undergo changes to accommodate Ultium packs. My guess would be the target for the Boltium will be similar, if not longer range as the Bolt has been sort of the sweet spot for range in its class. Really, the only negatives with the current Bolt are DCFC speed and cold weather efficiency which both LFP and Ultium should resolve. But honestly I don't expect peak charging speeds more than about 125kW based on speeds for the other Ultium models. Equinox EV apparently will come in 100kWh with 190kW peak charging, while standard range will be roughly 80kWh with a peak of 150kW. So I am just spitballing and assuming a 65-70kWh Boltium with LFP would likely peak at 125 or under, but as you suggest, the charging curve is apparently flatter with a longer peak for LFP.

But at this point, it is all speculation.

 

[GJETSON]

I get that, but Ultium packs are presumably more compact than BEV2 packs. My original estimate for an Ultium Bolt pack was for about 70kWh based on specs for Ultium cells/modules. Thus, my comment that a 65 kWh LFP pack might be possible.

You don't have to look far for the answer. The EUV is the car GM will be selling in 2025, not the Bolt. The EX30 footprint is 2% larger than the EUV's.

EX30 . EUV

Height . Height
61.2 in . 63.6 in

Width . Width
72.3 in . 69.7 in

Length . Length
166.7 in . 169.5 in


The EX30 is sold in Europe with either an NMC pack, or an LFP pack.

NMC 69.0 kWh

LFP 51.0 kWh

If you think GM can package cells tighter then Volvo/Geely, and still have good battery cooling, think again.

 

[Voldar]

The EX30 is sold in Europe with either an NMC pack, or an LFP pack.

NMC 69.0 kWh

LFP 51.0 kWh

EX30 : NMC/LFP ratio : 1.35
Tesla has a 60 kWh LFP battery (SR) and 78.8 kWh in NMC (Long Range)
Tesla : NMC / LFP = 1.31

So, given these examples, I doubt a LFP Bolt EUV will have a 65 kWh LFP pack at the dimensions it has today. More likely 50-55 kWh. In my first proposal I mentioned 55-60 kWH.

 

[The Other Tom]

NMC 69.0 kWh

LFP 51.0 kWh

That's roughly a 25% decrease in kWh, which is similar to the difference between Tesla's NMC and LFP models. OTOH, I think @ARob is referring to a recent Chinese announcement that a new LFP chemistry has more power density than their current batteries. I haven't seen these in the real world, so I don't know where they are on the development cycle.
The other thing to consider is degradation over time. Teslas probably have the worst degradation (still not bad) but Chevy's degradation is not so much. So in the long run, I don't think Chevy's LFP will "catch" their NMC as far as kWh goes.

 

[HuskieJohn]

The sound of a LFP battery on the Ultium charging platform sounds great to me. Lower range up front but a longer life battery that is able to DCFC much quicker. Even if that is only tops out at a real world 150kW charge that is quick enough for my rare road trip needs.

Really hope they offer a body more like the EUV as I really dislike the small triangle windows on the front of each side. This is the ONLY reason why I am not considering a Bolt-EV for my next personal vehicle.

If the biggest owner complaint is on the LFP/Ultium Bolt is that it doesn't have the Apple/Android car play then they did a great job. For me if the only reason I ever plug my phone in now is because the blue tooth doesn't always connect properly. If Chevy can increase the reliability of the blue tooth connecting as well as the faster charging (and buttons they added on the 22-24 redesign) then I will be happy.

 

[Voldar]

The other thing to consider is degradation over time. Teslas probably have the worst degradation (still not bad) but Chevy's degradation is not so much. So in the long run, I don't think Chevy's LFP will "catch" their NMC as far as kWh goes.

Do you have a study on this ?
I know Tesla battery over 200 000 miles present a degradation of around 12%.
NewsCoulomb when he did his battery degradation test at 150 000 miles on his Bolt, it was also around 10%.

 

[Digi]

Hopefully they will redesign the body to be nice and sleek like the 2021 and below models instead of the ugly 2022 + models.

That and to fix the brain dead rear taillights and signal locations.

 

[jefro]

If the efficiency goes up and the charge rate goes to 3-5 times Bolt then it will easily be OK on 65kWh pack for many. This is the low-end car after all. Not a Lucid.