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2017-2021 Bolts Level 2 AC charge at a maximum 32 A. And the EVSE and the car don't really talk to each other and agree on a charging rate. The EVSE tells the car the maximum available current, and the car take what it wants. It's not a negotiation. There is no agreement. The communication is one-way. It's up to the car to abide by the restriction put forth by the EVSE.
Here is how I pictured the conversation going:

Cable plugs in.
Bolt: Oh, yeah, I like that. Give me the full 48!
EVSE: I've only got 32. Will that be OK?
Bolt: Sure, whatever.

And somewhere, the wires are wondering why nobody asked them how much they could handle.
 
A 48A charging unit on a 60A circuit maxes it out. Over 50A (circuit) usually has to be hard-wired.

I charged at an ancient Level 2 outside a city parks building and was drawing about 10.5kW. Here's a picture of the beast!

View attachment 62395
That's a Wattzilla. Popular back in the day. Multiple heads 80A each.

Wish they would have put in a 25kw station. Much more effective use of that type of power.

ga2500ev
 
A 48A charging unit on a 60A circuit maxes it out. Over 50A (circuit) usually has to be hard-wired.

I charged at an ancient Level 2 outside a city parks building and was drawing about 10.5kW. Here's a picture of the beast!

View attachment 62395
That's actually pretty cool for a dumb station (and with a terrific power output, to boot).

But, after further research, those Wattzilla units are salty (nice as they might be with a stainless-steel enclosure).
 
Here is how I pictured the conversation going:

Cable plugs in.
Bolt: Oh, yeah, I like that. Give me the full 48!
EVSE: I've only got 32. Will that be OK?
Bolt: Sure, whatever.

And somewhere, the wires are wondering why nobody asked them how much they could handle.
The "conversation" goes more like this:

Cable plugs in...
EVSE - "I'm capable of 32A".
Bolt - "Close the contactor".

Some time later...
Bolt - "Open the contactor".
 
The "conversation" goes more like this:

Cable plugs in...
EVSE - "I'm capable of 32A".
Bolt - "Close the contactor".

Some time later...
Bolt - "Open the contactor".
I'm not sure the latter happens. My Juicebox, for example, I can hear the contactor close to supply power. But after that, it stays "green flashing" on the indicator, as it's trying to supply power to the car the entire time. The car is done charging, but the JB still keeps flashing green. It has no idea that charging stopped. In fact, the app keeps saying it's "charging" even though it also says it's delivering 0kW. Again, this is on L2 only...

As for the power, there is a PWM signal sent between the car and charger, and that's how the devices negotiate a charge rate. Actually, according to https://www.smart-emotion.de/article/87-type-2-in-detail-how-does-it-actually-work/ the car doesn't actually tell the charger the rate, the charger tells the car how fast to charge, and that's what the car is supposed to obey as a max limit (the car can go slower, which it does in my case, when it's done charging). Interesting...

I would think the JB should then say it's "not charging" but it seems rather dumb to that. Unless there's something wrong with mine? (Only reason I got the JB is that my electric company would rebate with, and will allow for future rebates wen I charge off-peak.)
 
@schwinn, the car continues requesting power even after charging of the main battery is complete. It uses power for things like 12-volt battery maintenance and main battery conditioning.

The car will stop requesting power when it detects that the charge connector latch release button has been pressed. That's when the EVSE cuts the power.
 
@schwinn, the car continues requesting power even after charging of the main battery is complete. It uses power for things like 12-volt battery maintenance and main battery conditioning.

The car will stop requesting power when it detects that the charge connector latch release button has been pressed. That's when the EVSE cuts the power.
Fair enough. Though that still means the car doesn't tell the EVSE "open contactor"... correct?

EDIT: I will also note that the charger actually says 0.00kW is being delivered. That should mean it's basically OFF. I also haven't ever seen any conditioning happening yet (car is in the garage, which hasn't gotten too cold yet, even though I'm in CT. Ir's 47F out right now, for example.
 
Semantics. There is no "open the contactors" message exactly. What there is is a "give me power" signal from the car, which while maintained, means the EVSE should keep the contactors closed. When the car stops sending that signal, the EVSE opens the contactors.
 
The "conversation" goes more like this:

Cable plugs in...
EVSE - "I'm capable of 32A".
Bolt - "Close the contactor".

Some time later...
Bolt - "Open the contactor".
I'm not sure the latter happens. My Juicebox, for example, I can hear the contactor close to supply power. But after that, it stays "green flashing" on the indicator, as it's trying to supply power to the car the entire time. The car is done charging, but the JB still keeps flashing green. It has no idea that charging stopped. In fact, the app keeps saying it's "charging" even though it also says it's delivering 0kW. Again, this is on L2 only...
Fair enough. Though that still means the car doesn't tell the EVSE "open contactor"... correct?

EDIT: I will also note that the charger actually says 0.00kW is being delivered. That should mean it's basically OFF. I also haven't ever seen any conditioning happening yet (car is in the garage, which hasn't gotten too cold yet, even though I'm in CT. Ir's 47F out right now, for example.
The car does tell the EVSE to "open contactor". The car controls the process using voltages on the control pilot line. There are various "states" that the CP line can be in, and they are controlled by the EV by changing the voltage on the line. The EVSE monitors the voltage and responds based on the state. There is a state for "charging" which turns the contactor on and "charge complete" which is the same as disconnected, which turns the "contactor off".

The state that you are seeing is "charging", but the EV is drawing no power. But rest assured that the EV is in control of that process.

ga2500ev
 
EDIT: I will also note that the charger actually says 0.00kW is being delivered. That should mean it's basically OFF. I also haven't ever seen any conditioning happening yet (car is in the garage, which hasn't gotten too cold yet, even though I'm in CT. Ir's 47F out right now, for example.
This could be a result of the EVSE rounding down. The Bolt uses around 120 watts for four hours after the battery finishes charging. This happens after every charging session, no matter the target state ofcan see below that my Autel reports 0 watts and 0.5 amps. My multi-meter reports 0.56 amps. That’s at approximately 240 volts.

Image

Image
 
The car does tell the EVSE to "open contactor". The car controls the process using voltages on the control pilot line. There are various "states" that the CP line can be in, and they are controlled by the EV by changing the voltage on the line. The EVSE monitors the voltage and responds based on the state. There is a state for "charging" which turns the contactor on and "charge complete" which is the same as disconnected, which turns the "contactor off".

The state that you are seeing is "charging", but the EV is drawing no power. But rest assured that the EV is in control of that process.

ga2500ev
Not to get pedantic, but I do want to learn.

From what I'm seeing in the link provided before (ie, to summarize), the resistor on the PP line tells the EVSE that the car what the max capability of the CABLE is. Easy.

Next, the CP line has 12V. When connected, this tells the EVSE and car that the car is connected.

Next, the EVSE controls a PWM signal on the CP line to tell it what is capable of delivering. The car then tells the station to being charging (ie, the "open contactor" signal). Once the car is satisfied with the voltage being delivered, it opens up its own contactors to charge the battery.

As noted by the article, "While CCS also transmits the car's state of charge, type 2 dosen't. So the charging station doesn't know if or when your car is fully charged. But the station also doesn't need to know that, the car is keeping an eye on that." For this reason, I don't believe there is ever a "open contactor" signal from the car (until you disconnect the cable, of course... or if there is an error).

That's the point I was trying to make... that the charger never stops while it's connected. The CAR tells it to stop delivering power. This is why my JB doesn't know the car is "done" charging (probably because the car could also stop charging for peak management reasons, which my car is setup to do as well).

I do agree, maybe the station is still drawing power from the house. I would expect his should show up in the reading (after all 0.5A @ 240V as noted by jmcbrew = 120W which is within the double digits of the reading on the app - yes, I know this could still be lying to us). However, I challenge this is going to the car, because the charging spec doesn't allow this low of a delivery (note the graph on the link, which limits you to 6A minimum... which I have seen others report as the minimum charging level of the Bolt?). For this reason, maybe the 0.5A is actually just being used by the station? That does seem like a large load for "nothing" but I would want to see what the draw is into the car, to be sure it's actually getting there.
 
I don't believe there is ever a "open contactor" signal from the car (until you disconnect the cable, of course... or if there is an error).
There must be an “open contactor “ signal at some point. On my old fashioned EVSE with electro-mechanical contactors I hear a thunk from the EVSE contactors opening if I disconnect the cable during charging. However, most mornings when I disconnect the cable there is no thunk. That tells me the contactor is open and must have opened sometime overnight. Probably after main charging and the follow-up “housekeeping” has been completed.
 
The proximity pilot line does not run back to the main body of the EVSE. The EVSE is not monitoring the proximity pilot. Proximity pilot is in the plug handle, and exists only for the car to detect that a connector is plugged into the car's charging port, and whether the latch release button is pressed.

6 A is not the minimum power that can be delivered. 6 A is the minimum current limit that the EVSE can signal to the car. The car is free to use any current between 0 and the limit. Remember, this whole thing is a glorified extension cord. The EVSE connects power to the car, then it's up to the car to use the power however it wants to.

The EVSE itself uses a few watts to power its electronics. Any power draw beyond that is going to the car. (or is lost in the cabling)

Best to go to the source. You can read SAE J1772-2010.
 
The specs linked by @balazer go into far more detail than consumers need to know, they are spelled out primarily for equipment manufacturers to ensure consistent product functionality.

One item worth noting, this spec is dated 2010, which is prior to adoption of CCS (which was in draft form at the time and ratified in 2012). Initially, DC charging was described using the J1772 plug and socket, but was relatively low powered (80A maybe?). Thus CCS eventually specified separate terminals for DC power transfer. However, this item (5.5 in the document) is interesting:

5.5 Digital Data Transfer
A duty cycle of 5% indicates that digital communication is required and must be established between the EVSE and vehicle before charging. This is required for DC charging. Digital communication is optional at any valid control pilot duty cycle for AC Level 1 & 2 charging. When optionally used with AC Level 1 & 2 charging, more functions may be accommodated than by Control Pilot duty cycle functionality alone. Digital data transfer is currently under development (read this to mean ISO15118/CCS protocol development).​

What this indicates is, J1772 specs were ratified with CCS DCFC in mind, though not yet completed. The same control pilot circuit defines the duty cycle requirements to trigger the EV to invoke digital communications needed for DCFC.

As has been discussed elsewhere, the ISO15118 Specs outline communications for CCS charging, but the ISO15118 specs also apply (optionally) for AC charging using J1772 couplers. In subsequent ISO15118 specification standards, Vehicle to X, and Plug & Charge (secure method with digital certificates) were defined. Therefore, mechanisms are in place for enabling both V2X and P&C functionality on both AC and DC charging. The keyword is the optional clause in both J1772 and ISO15118 specs, and few, if any AC charging equipment makers, nor OEMs, have pursued this option, but they could! Similarly, none have pursued DC charging on the J1772 coupler.

BTW, Tesla has followed J1772 communications specs for AC charging since their first mass produced EV (Model S in 2012), thus enabling their cars and AC chargers to work on any EV that is equipped with J1772 or Tesla sockets. This allowed for adapters because of the common communications protocols. However, in V3 Tesla AC chargers, they added optional capabilities for digital communications for Tesla vehicles only, and for billing purposes. While this is an optional provisioning step, it is primarily only used when billing is intended, and Tesla will only provision billing for sites with 6+ AC destination chargers, and only if the site host requests it. Therefore, Tesla V3 AC chargers remain compatible with J1772 EVs by default. A final word on this, the provisioning can also be performed to limit AC charging to Tesla vehicles only, or for specific Tesla vehicles without adding billing capabilities. This is accomplished similar to a MAC address filter, the unique vehicle ID has to conform to a pattern to authorize charging. Tesla Tap claims to have built a bridging capability into their adapters allowing J1772 EVs to appear as a generic Tesla EV, but not comply with the requirements for the specific Tesla, or billing schemes.

Because Tesla has adopted the ISO15118 stack in newer models, and offers a retrofit for older models to use CCS, it is conceivable AC billing could be modified in future firmware releases allowing all EVs to use Tesla AC chargers and be automatically billed by Tesla. Or, this could be done side by side with native Tesla protocols for legacy Tesla EVs that don't support CCS like they are doing on the DCFC Supercharger network.

Digging a bit deeper into the billing aspects. Tesla "Plug&Charge" is effectively the same as CCS AutoCharge. I know Plug&Charge is a confusing topic, because it is used to describe both the certificate based ISO15118 P&C, as well as AutoCharge. In the original CCS specs from 2012, provisions were made to allow vehicles to share their unique ID with the charger. This could be MAC address for the charging port, or VIN, but in either case, this identifier is unique and thus can be used to link the car to a billing account on the charging network's systems. While this identifier is nearly universally implemented on both native CCS equipped EVs (VW group may not comply???), it is also implemented in the ISO15118 stack on Tesla cars. Evidence of Tesla complying is that CCS compatible Teslas can enroll in EVGo's Autocharge+ the same as most CCS equipped EVs. While Autocharge lacks the security of a certificate and TLS encrypted session, it is simple to implement and could be easily done on both AC and DC Tesla chargers if Tesla is willing to do so.

Because AutoCharge lacks security, it is unlikely to be the long term Plug&Charge method. But, since J1772 is included in the ISO15118 stack, it is conceivable ISO15118 P&C with certificates could be implemented universally, on AC and DC chargers, over J1772, CCS, or NACS plugs and sockets. AutoCharge is a more universal implementation of plug & charge in that it requires minimal computing due to the lack of certificates and not using the optional asymmetrical encryption that is required for ISO15118 P&C. But most new EVs are being designed with ISO15118 P&C capabilities in mind, so over time it should become the dominant billing method.

My take on the proximity overlap, the Control Pilot pin detects the presence of an EV being connected to start the duty cycle signaling. The Proximity Pilot serves a different function, detecting when the plug is fully engaged and safe to send energy over the power pins to the car. Thus, when the lever on a J1772 or CCS plug is pressed, the circuit is opened to stop the flow of energy before the plug can be removed. Failing to do so could result in arcing with relatively high voltages and currents being passed to the car, resulting in personal or equipment damage. In other words, the PP functions as a safety measure while the CP is only concerned with signaling. No doubt there is a linkage between the proximity detection as the Control Pilot will signal to the EVSE to stop sending energy (end the session) when the PP is opened.
 
I do agree, maybe the station is still drawing power from the house. I would expect his should show up in the reading (after all 0.5A @ 240V as noted by jmcbrew = 120W which is within the double digits of the reading on the app - yes, I know this could still be lying to us). However, I challenge this is going to the car, because the charging spec doesn't allow this low of a delivery (note the graph on the link, which limits you to 6A minimum... which I have seen others report as the minimum charging level of the Bolt?). For this reason, maybe the 0.5A is actually just being used by the station? That does seem like a large load for "nothing" but I would want to see what the draw is into the car, to be sure it's actually getting there.
I don't think this is the case. An easy way to check this would be to see if the Bolt is pulling that ~0.5 amp load for 4 hours on any EVSE. And then check to see if other EVs pull ~0.5 amps for four hours after charging completes. I think you will find that answers are yes and no, respectively.
 
Hello!

New 2023 Bolt EUV owner here. We're setting up in the garage for charging. The wiring for the whole garage is max 30amp, with 20amps available for a charger.

This currently goes to an outlet which was set up for a table saw, but we can adapt cheaply from NEMA L6-20-R to NEMA 14-50 for use with the built-in charging cable.

The trick is that there seems to be no software setting to limit amperage except for at 120 volts. If we do this are we just going to over-current and fail? Or will it smartly test or remember limits? Is there a way to force the software to draw less? Or maybe a suitable after-market cable which can be configured to serve a max of 16amps or so to the vehicle?

Thanks in advance :)
As others have said, or implied, there are many level two chargers out there that you can buy often at reasonable prices, that offered the option to charge it several Rates selected by you.
I run mine at 16 Amps by choice, even though my circuit can handle more than 32.
Maybe you can sell your GM dual level charger to someone who does not have a level2 and its inability to charge. Lower rate is not an issue for them?!
 
Not to get pedantic, but I do want to learn.
Happy to help.
From what I'm seeing in the link provided before (ie, to summarize), the resistor on the PP line tells the EVSE that the car what the max capability of the CABLE is. Easy.
Nope. The PP line simply indicates that the handle is plugged in. Contactors will not activate unless that's the case. The switch on the handle interrupts that PP line, causing the contactors to drop out.
Next, the CP line has 12V. When connected, this tells the EVSE and car that the car is connected.
I'm not quite sure when that 12V is presented on CP. But a solid 12V on CP is the starting point for charging.
Next, the EVSE controls a PWM signal on the CP line to tell it what is capable of delivering. The car then tells the station to being charging (ie, the "open contactor" signal).
The EV does this by putting a second resistor on the CP line (the EVSE has a 1K resistor already inline). This second resistor drops the voltage on the line switching the state.
Once the car is satisfied with the voltage being delivered, it opens up its own contactors to charge the battery.
Now you're sort of mixing and matching. For J1772 AC, everything is going to the on board charger including the AC power, which is negotiating this exchange. DCFC has a separate set of contactors which do not engage in AC charging. But I guess you are right that the onboard charger through the CAN bus wakes up the car and gets the contactors in the battery to activate.
As noted by the article, "While CCS also transmits the car's state of charge, type 2 dosen't. So the charging station doesn't know if or when your car is fully charged. But the station also doesn't need to know that, the car is keeping an eye on that." For this reason, I don't believe there is ever a "open contactor" signal from the car (until you disconnect the cable, of course... or if there is an error).
But that's not correct. The EV monitors the SOC. When the target charge is reached, the onboard charger drops out the resistor on the CP line, returning it to its 12V state A. In that state the EVSE contactors are disengaged. So, in fact the EV does signal to the EVSE to return to idle and open its contactors.
That's the point I was trying to make... that the charger never stops while it's connected. The CAR tells it to stop delivering power. This is why my JB doesn't know the car is "done" charging (probably because the car could also stop charging for peak management reasons, which my car is setup to do as well).
Again, the Bolt, even after that 4 hour "adjustment" period, does actually deactivate the EVSE. I see it each morning where the EVSE no longer shows a charging state, even though the cable is still connected to the Bolt.
I do agree, maybe the station is still drawing power from the house. I would expect his should show up in the reading (after all 0.5A @ 240V as noted by jmcbrew = 120W which is within the double digits of the reading on the app - yes, I know this could still be lying to us). However, I challenge this is going to the car, because the charging spec doesn't allow this low of a delivery (note the graph on the link, which limits you to 6A minimum... which I have seen others report as the minimum charging level of the Bolt?). For this reason, maybe the 0.5A is actually just being used by the station? That does seem like a large load for "nothing" but I would want to see what the draw is into the car, to be sure it's actually getting there.
The 6A minimum limit is for the offer to the EV from the EVSE. There is no specification on a minimal amount of power the EV can draw from the EVSE. There's only a maximum specification. PWM below 5% (which is 6A) activates CCS communication.

You know you can test this for yourself. There are J1772 simulators like this one:


with a handful of resistors, a diode, and some switches. You can plug it in, activate the EVSE using S1 and S2. Now drop out S2 and you'll hear the contactors click even though the EV is still connected.

Note that the EV has control of these switches. So, it can signal the EVSE to drop its contactors. It can also set the charging state and draw no power too. It's not just one or the other.

Hope this helps,

ga2500ev
 
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