[SparkE]

EVgo was a subsidiary of NRG (cute name, 'energy'). They started as a subsidiary of a very large power (electric) company that was accused of market manipulations, price fixing and gauging during the ~2000 Calif energy scandal. They were going to be sued by the state, but they came to an out-of-court agreement that instead of paying fines, they would set up EV charging stations throughout the state.

I didn't like this because :

• it gave them a dominant position in the EV charging market, basically for free (i.e., instead of paying a fine)
• they missed every single deadline on how many stations would be installed by certain dates
• they never actually met the conditions (under former ownership)

I have the same issue for point #1 with the EA agreement ("dieselgate"). What I would have done (because I am a reasonably competent and intelligent person, and not a stupid effing politician) is to have made both companies pay fines into a 'pot' of funds, and then use that to finance a "request for bids" from all existing charging network companies, those with working DCFC chargers and proven technologies. Set 'floating' zones every 35-55 miles apart on travel corridors and ask for bids. The more units installed (min 2, but up to 6) the higher % 'match' from the fund to set up the site. Also set up large sites (6-10) near major freeway intersections in metro areas (L.A. , SF Bay area, Fresno, San Diego, Sacramento, etc.) and in areas with a density of apartment complexes. This would have avoided the total f-up the first year of EA installs (broken materiel from new vendors, having to swap out cables, credit card readers not working, having to reboot units before they would work, didn't charge certain vehicles, etc.).

Now, I do realize that EA has made non-Tesla travel across the U.S. feasible - even easy. That is a good thing. And that fact has caused an explosion of new installs by other charging providers, to compete. Also a good thing. And EA wasn't that late with setting up sites (the main delay i believe was due to power companies not installing transformers or hooking up sites for up to 6 months after the DCFC install was complete). However, VW (well EA) now has a dominant position in the charging market, and they set up their stations to cater to their plans for their EVs coming out (800V , 350 kW charging). AND there are rumors that they are trying to get an investment partner to buy out a portion of their company - basically making money off what should have been a fine in the first place.

Back to EVgo. I don't have much of a problem anymore with EVgo ; they have been sold TWICE, so it is no longer the power company as owner. However the whole "making money off what should have been a fine in the first place" is true, since they SOLD the company - and never made good on their time or unit promises before selling.

End rant.

 

[SparkE]

California's electric car charging deal with NRG clouded with controversy | Torque News

The $100 million to be invested by NRG in building the eVgo electric car charging network in California will dramatically expand electric car charging access, but some advocates are raising red flags.

www.torquenews.com

NRG reaching out to quell concerns in electric car charging network deal with California | Torque News

NRG is attempting to satisfy concerns over the company's deal with California to build a large electric charging station network, providing answers and solutions to most of the questions that have been raised.

www.torquenews.com

California's settlement with NRG for electric car charging network headed to FERC | Torque News

Today the CPUC and NRG released the finalized settlement of the decade-old legal battle over the 2000-1 California Energy Crisis, revealing details of the planned electric car charging station network to be built in California.

www.torquenews.com

 

[jefro]

"California's population increased by 13% during the 1990s.[21] The State did not build any new major power plants during that time, and California's generation capability decreased 2 percent from 1990 through 1999, while retail sales increased by 11 percent. "

They forgot to mention that the States bordering CA were allowed to build generation and sell it across state lines for much more.

It was the Not In My Back Yard syndrome. I didn't forget.

 

[greendave]

You can avoid the monthly fee if you link your EVGo account to your AAA account. EVgo Promotion

Even though that site seems to be AAA NorCal, it worked on my CO account and people all across the country have reported success. Basically, same pricing as with the one prepaid session fee, but no monthly cost (and thus no free session).

It's not clear to me that the promotion is doing anything now with TOU-based pricing. I'm on the AAA plan in CA, but pricing starts at $0.34/kWh off-peak, $0.39 partial-peak and $0.44/kWh peak for the stations I've checked around here.

The website claims as low as $0.28/kWh on a 'free' plan or 'basic' plan. - I didn't see that. The $7/mo 'plus' membership claims to reduce that to $0.25/kWh.

It probably doesn't make sense for me to get the membership because I use DCFC for traveling, and EvGo is limited mostly to suburban malls, so north of Santa Rosa or east of the Central Valley there's not much to be had.

 

[ARob]

It's not clear to me that the promotion is doing anything now with TOU-based pricing. I'm on the AAA plan in CA, but pricing starts at $0.34/kWh off-peak, $0.39 partial-peak and $0.44/kWh peak for the stations I've checked around here.

The website claims as low as $0.28/kWh on a 'free' plan or 'basic' plan. - I didn't see that. The $7/mo 'plus' membership claims to reduce that to $0.25/kWh.

It probably doesn't make sense for me to get the membership because I use DCFC for traveling, and EvGo is limited mostly to suburban malls, so north of Santa Rosa or east of the Central Valley there's not much to be had.

Yup, it seems EVGo has set their strategy to primarily be urban chargers. Recent GM + EVGo news reinforces this.

So, EA is more heavily focussed on long distance routes, though Round 2 was a bit heavier on urban, which in retrospect is disappointing given EVGo's focus on urban sites. ChargePoint seems to be picking up some LD routes either through state grant programs, or by happenstance.

I was aware EVGo was adopting TOU rates, the announcement suggested it was initially being implemented in CA so I didn't pay much attention since I only get to CA once a year typically. CA seems to be a Petri dish right now, all PAYG and Member pricing appears to be the same, but in most other states, there is a small advantage to member rates, albeit all other states are still on /min rate plans. The member pricing does waive the $1.99 session fee though.

You can learn more here: EV Charging Costs: Pricing and Plan for EV Charging

 

[p7wang]

It's not clear to me that the promotion is doing anything now with TOU-based pricing. I'm on the AAA plan in CA, but pricing starts at $0.34/kWh off-peak, $0.39 partial-peak and $0.44/kWh peak for the stations I've checked around here.

The website claims as low as $0.28/kWh on a 'free' plan or 'basic' plan. - I didn't see that. The $7/mo 'plus' membership claims to reduce that to $0.25/kWh.

It probably doesn't make sense for me to get the membership because I use DCFC for traveling, and EvGo is limited mostly to suburban malls, so north of Santa Rosa or east of the Central Valley there's not much to be had.

Baker, CA

 

[GregBrew]

Yeah it's always a gyp when you pay more at a charging station than to fill up at a gas station, but the sliver lining of course is that with a gas car you always have to gas up at a gas station. Not so with charging an EV at home off of solar panels or overnight rates

I just charged at the most expensive ChargePoint station I've seen to date. A small regional airport. 65 cents /kWh. Plus 10 cents /min parking. This of course is where "the people" will start demanding legislation to cap pricing. Hopefully competition will instead throttle high prices, but there has to be the electricity to supply to a competitor, and I doubt an airport would allow two vendors on the property. ?

Interestingly, the chargers are in the paid parking area of the airport, and charging an EV does not get your parking validated. So it's a double whammy. But eating at the airport restaurant does validate. So I did, because I've heard a prominent local chef took over the restaurant last year. Indeed, a meal of delicious clam chowder and killer chicken wings, along with validation. Then to my surprise and delight the charging session was free. FREE. No explanation. No signs. But even my ChargePoint account the next day showed the session as free. Go figure.

You might reconsider your use of the pejorative "gyp". Would you use "jew" in the same application? I would hope not.

The term "gyp" is derived fro "Gypsies".

The Romani people find it particularly offensive.

 

[p7wang]

Looking at Love's Travel Center in Barstow, rate also went up from 25c to now 35-45c. Boo!

East of the station, across the highway, the one at the Outlet Mall is still 25c/kWh.

Well, just checked, Love's DCFC is back to 25c a kWh, yeah!

 

[jefro]

I'd have to think that the cost of installing and maintaining a DC charger is quite high. The actual power part of it would be minimal.

 

[p7wang]

I'd have to think that the cost of installing and maintaining a DC charger is quite high. The actual power part of it would be minimal.

That us why it pairs great with travel centers and convenience stores. Lots of high profit items.

 

[cwerdna]

I'd have to think that the cost of installing and maintaining a DC charger is quite high. The actual power part of it would be minimal.

As for the power, it depends if the utilization is high enough for pay for the demand charges.

From Electrify America Outreach Webinar

One of the biggest threats to that long-term profitability and sustainability is demand fees. In one real-world example of a charging site in Utah, they are paying $8.55 per kWh dispensed after demand fees, and they are installing grid-tied batteries in order to offset those costs (they stated 80% or 90% of a charging station's costs are due to demand fees).

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23794 that I posted in 2017 had

RMI’s study found that, under certain electricity tariffs, current demand charges can make up as much
as 90 percent of the monthly bill of operational public DC fast chargers, driving the cost of delivered
electricity as high as $1.96 per kilowatt-hour (kWh) during summer months in some locations

I started installation + ongoing costs for public L2 & DC FC... awhile ago and it's been crickets.

 

[jefro]

I know big users here get a out of sight break on the cost. My work pays almost nothing for electricity. Took me a while to get that information to make a case for workplace charging.

Most of the Tesla superchargers have what seems to always be a set of transformers so they must be getting at least 440VAC or higher.

I agree that some way to get out of car and do something is the only way to use DC in my opinion. I'd love to match it with a meal or some hour long deal. More people might go spend an hour at church too if they were there.

 

[greendave]

I was aware EVGo was adopting TOU rates, the announcement suggested it was initially being implemented in CA so I didn't pay much attention since I only get to CA once a year typically. CA seems to be a Petri dish right now, all PAYG and Member pricing appears to be the same, but in most other states, there is a small advantage to member rates, albeit all other states are still on /min rate plans. The member pricing does waive the $1.99 session fee though.

EvGo's formula is definitely the most complicated. It doesn't help that it is not uniform, even within California at a given time.

Bay area with $7/mo plan: $0.30/$0.34/$0.39 per kWh
LA with $7/mo plan: $0.30/$0.37/$0.45 per kWh

As this thread is about ChargePoint, I'll add that on my most recent trip, I charged almost exclusively at ChargePoint (better charging locations) and averaged ~$0.45/kWh. Basically that's 50% more than I would've paid at EA.

Is it the end of the world? Not really. But given a choice, I'll probably stick to EA where possible as I resent this sort of slicing and dicing. Also not too keen to pay more than I would for gas, even at the current higher gas prices.

(Current cost per mile of a good efficient ICEV at $4.50/gal: $0.082/mile. EV at $0.45/kWh: $0.113/mile.)

 

[jmcbrew]

I have seven DCFC sessions from my trip today… at EA per kWh, I got 32 kWh for $6.68. At EVGO per minute, I got 36 kWh for $18.30. Not even close here… unless you are charging at 150+ kW.