[wonderbolt]

Not lawsuit worthy but it does speak to general EV education, someone in one of the threads suggested that the window sticker add fields for Winter range and summer range, like we now have highway and city MPGe, I think that is a great suggestion and that it would go a long way towards educating the public and avoiding issues like this, it would also help with comparison shopping EVs

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/05...dip-up-to-100-miles-in-the-cold-lawsuit-says/

 

[XJ12]

That's an EPA rated range. They should go after the EPA, no?

 

[shocker]

Having owned a Volt, I knew that the EPA number is bogus unless conditions mimic coastal SoCal. But we know how successful class action suits turn out. Lawyers make millions, plaintiffs get a coupon for $500 off their next GM car purchase.

Edit: Just for reference, my Silverado takes about a 10% hit for cold weather. OTOH, gas prices are lowest in the winter and the blast furnace like heat and defrost capability with no range penalty is a very, very nice feature.

 

[madmike]

My VW diesel also got really crappy mileage in winter. That said I would fully support educational information that describes factors effecting range on EVs

 

[JaxEVLyftUber]

Even better would be for the issue to become mostly irrelevant as kWh rises, DCFC charge rates increase, chargers become ubiquitous, and costs to use them fall.


Then it'll be like "Yeah, when its cold it takes a couple extra minutes and bucks to charge" (in other words a situation of only passing interest as with ICE vehicles)

 

[KeithMoon]

Having owned a Volt, I knew that the EPA number is bogus unless conditions mimic coastal SoCal. But we know how successful class action suits turn out. Lawyers make millions, plaintiffs get a coupon for $500 off their next GM car purchase.

Edit: Just for reference, my Silverado takes about a 10% hit for cold weather. OTOH, gas prices are lowest in the winter and the blast furnace like heat and defrost capability with no range penalty is a very, very nice feature.

I achieved far above EPA with my Volt (50,000 miles before I traded it in). Ok, so mimicking socal isn't hard, since that's where I live, but I did better than EPA (more than 100mpge and 62mpg gasoline cost equivalent when gas was cheap).

 

[KeithMoon]

Even better would be for the issue to become mostly irrelevant as kWh rises, DCFC charge rates increase, chargers become ubiquitous, and costs to use them fall.


Then it'll be like "Yeah, when its cold it takes a couple extra minutes and bucks to charge" (in other words a situation of only passing interest as with ICE vehicles)

So basically, as soon as you don't care about efficiency anymore.

 

[JaxEVLyftUber]

Not true - even at worst case conditions 2.5 - 3.0 miles per kWh an EV is still 2-3x more efficient than an ICE car.



While I'm aware that EPA figures are fantasy for most drivers, I too have beat them easily on multiple vehicles, and routinely do with my Bolt even during fairly "enthusiastic" LyftUber driving and no holding back on AC here in muggy Florida.


The key element for EVs to go mainstream is for these considerations to become effectively irrelevant to the typical driver. The typically ICE driver doesn't much care / may not even be aware of weather-based impacts on efficiency / cost of operation.


EVs take a double hit in cold weather as declining battery capability combats high HVAC needs. Main stream Americans are not used to / will not tolerate a cold car cabin as the "price" of successful EV ownership. Starry-eyed greens and technology enthusiasts often lose sight of bottom line reality as demonstrated by the typical American consumer.



Perhaps the next gen batteries won't have temperature issues, and heat pumps may be our salvation as to winter cabin heating energy, but both will take awhile to get right in a robust and cost effective mobile application.


If and when a 200 kWh battery pack weighs 200 lbs and costs $2000 and has little degradation down to -20*F, few will much care about having to run a 7 kW resistive heater to keep the cabin toasty.


OTOH, if battery capacity / weight / cost specs don't soon substantially improve, then there will likely be more intense focus on maximizing cabin heating efficiency - that means heat pumps, and those are a fair bit more complicated than cooling-only AC systems (I'm an HVAC contractor - those details pay my bills)


There is an enduring concern that heat pumps don't work in cold weather, typically defined as below freezing, but as with many other consumer products, Asian manufacturers have put paid to that with models that provide 80-90% of rated capacity down to below zero while still maintaining efficiencies 2-3x straight resistive heaters, so it can be done as to thermodynamics, but at what cost and efficiency in vehicular applications?

 

[RichCapeCod]

Looking at some of the graphs supplied by our more knowledgeable and tech savvy posters, they showed that there is a mileage loss from both cold and warm weather. Indeed, in reading one of the graphs (from memory), it would appear that whether you were driving in temperatures of the low 30s, or low 90s, the range would be the same on the Bolt.



Rich

 

[Vertiformed]

Looking at some of the graphs supplied by our more knowledgeable and tech savvy posters, they showed that there is a mileage loss from both cold and warm weather. Indeed, in reading one of the graphs (from memory), it would appear that whether you were driving in temperatures of the low 30s, or low 90s, the range would be the same on the Bolt.

My go-to is the WLTP results for the Ampera-e.

I don't recall posting graphs here about these things, but for fun I drew some using this data:

 

[Dimitrij]

Whereas EV-splaning the "winter mileage" - along with the "winter DCFC charging speed" - info would be great for public education, it may educate many folks out of buying an EV altogether (in the US, that is).

I am fearful this may have already happened … Chevrolet Koons advertises 56 Bolts, starting at the Wow Price of $25K, and even if this already includes the $3,750.00 fed incentive, it's >20% off the MSRP. The only EV selling in statistically significant numbers in the US is the TM3, which is a little sobering, 8 years into the rEVolution.

We shall see what the 2020 Bolt may be like