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I thought they were going to use the next generation LG battery, for 80 kWh in the same pack volume/weight, now with less Cobalt, and for lower total cost.

No?
Chevy has to get that done for the Bolt to remain competitive against the base Model 3. The only thing the Bolt has over that car right now is availability. As much as I love my Bolt, I'd rather have a Model 3 just for access to the charging network.

So Chevy will be forced to release its lower cost, higher capacity battery by the time production ramps up at Tesla.
 

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Chevy has to get that done for the Bolt to remain competitive against the base Model 3. The only thing the Bolt has over that car right now is availability.
Well, it is available, there is that. It also has more range, a choice of colors at no extra charge, a console with a lid, important instruments in front of the driver, better regen, better cargo access, all options under $1K, and again, the fact that it actually exists is no small thing.
 

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Well, it is available, there is that. It also has more range, a choice of colors at no extra charge, a console with a lid, important instruments in front of the driver, better regen, better cargo access, all options under $1K, and again, the fact that it actually exists is no small thing.
IMO, those other things are negligible at best. And Tesla has pluses too, like the charging network and styling.

I think Bolt vs Model 3 all comes down to range, price, and availability. I don't expect the price to change. Tesla will eventually catch up on availability. So range will be the factor. Chevy needs to deliver significantly more range at the same price point.
 

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IMO, those other things are negligible at best. And Tesla has pluses too, like the charging network and styling.

I think Bolt vs Model 3 all comes down to range, price, and availability. I don't expect the price to change. Tesla will eventually catch up on availability. So range will be the factor. Chevy needs to deliver significantly more range at the same price point.
those other things are negligible at best

Um, no. To you they are negligible at best. To people who care about such things, they may sway towards purchasing a Bolt. It's all about choice. People who don't care about such things ... well, they won't care about such things. But it won't come down to simply range, price, and availability. I also care about having a hatchback - I find them *really* useful. And I don't care what other people think about "styling" (all that matters is what *I* think about styling ;) ). The reason I don't have a LEAF isn't because I hated the styling - it's because of the horrible stories heard about battery longevity. Some people *do* care what other people think about the styling of their car. (I really don't understand why, but I do understand that they do.)

So it's about many things - what matters to the prospective purchaser. Just because something in particular doesn't matter to you (or to me) doesn't mean that it isn't very important to somebody else - it really is about more than range, price, and availability. (Although there is a valid argument that if one can't obtain an item, it really doesn't matter how much one wants to obtain said item ...)
 

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I think Bolt vs Model 3 all comes down to range, price, and availability. I don't expect the price to change. Tesla will eventually catch up on availability. So range will be the factor. Chevy needs to deliver significantly more range at the same price point.
You lost me totally. The Bolt is available, it has more range, and the out the door price that people actually pay is cheaper than any base Model 3 will ever be, assuming it arrives. Back in mid-July, we paid $36,509 out the door. You can't even theoretically do better than that on a lower range Model 3.
 

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those other things are negligible at best

Um, no. To you they are negligible at best. To people who care about such things, they may sway towards purchasing a Bolt. It's all about choice. People who don't care about such things ... well, they won't care about such things. But it won't come down to simply range, price, and availability. I also care about having a hatchback - I find them *really* useful. And I don't care what other people think about "styling" (all that matters is what *I* think about styling ;) ). The reason I don't have a LEAF isn't because I hated the styling - it's because of the horrible stories heard about battery longevity. Some people *do* care what other people think about the styling of their car. (I really don't understand why, but I do understand that they do.)

So it's about many things - what matters to the prospective purchaser. Just because something in particular doesn't matter to you (or to me) doesn't mean that it isn't very important to somebody else - it really is about more than range, price, and availability. (Although there is a valid argument that if one can't obtain an item, it really doesn't matter how much one wants to obtain said item ...)
Of course, individual buyers might care deeply about the placement of a cup holder. But I'm talking about sales in the aggregate.

The most important things driving sales of Bolt vs. Model 3 are price, range, and availability. I don't think there is anything else that belongs in the same league with those three, but I'm willing to be convinced.
 

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most important things driving sales of Bolt vs. Model 3 are price, range, and availability. I don't think there is anything else that belongs in the same league with those three, but I'm willing to be convinced.
Bolt is already ahead of the base Model 3 in all three of those criteria.

1. Bolt LT price after available dealer discounts is lower than the Model 3's $36,000.
2. Bolt LT has 238 miles range, vs base Model 3's 220
3. Bolt is available in the US today, rather than a year or two from today, if ever.

You seem to be ill-informed. Does this help?
 

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Bolt is already ahead of the base Model 3 in all three of those criteria.

1. Bolt LT price after available dealer discounts is lower than the Model 3's $36,000.
2. Bolt LT has 238 miles range, vs base Model 3's 220
3. Bolt is available in the US today, rather than a year or two from today, if ever.

You seem to be ill-informed. Does this help?
I'm not ill informed.

1. Significant discounts are often not available. I don't expect Chevy to compete on price as long as they lose money on each car.
2. 18 miles is not going to be a deal breaker for most people.
3. As I said earlier, availability is why the Bolt competes well today. But that is likely to change over the course of 2018 or 2019.

Therefore, the Bolt NEEDS the 80 kwh battery to remain competitive in the next couple of years.
 

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Um, no. To you they are negligible at best.
That could be the same of nearly any feature.

For me the mere fact that it's a hatchback would be enough to choose a Bolt over a Model 3 even if they were both instantly available and the exact same price.

The Bolt does have a longer range but the difference there is not that dramatic at under 20 miles and <10%.

I think we are not being objective if we discount or trivialize that the model 3 has some key advantages namely semi-autonomous driving capability (and we don't even have adaptive cruise control) and a VASTLY more mature charging network making driving almost anywhere in the country feasible.

Really IMO the biggest advantage that the Bolt has is that you can actually buy one, but that advantage will be temporary.
 

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Speculative expectations?

Sounds pretty reliable to me.

My speculative expectations for the 2019 Bolt Model year*

600 kWh battery, 2500 mile range

Full charge in three minutes

Flux capacitor option, revisit your dad’s high school prom!

Tesla badging, just because

Fully autonomous drive mode

Animatronic passengers - you stay home, the robot goes to work

* All of this is now on the internet, so it must be true!
 
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