[usedBolt]

I've been searching all the small towns when I'm out and about for at least L2/NEMA14-50 charging opportunities at city parks, etc. I put most of what's on plugshare for the northern half at least, and a fair amount in the southern half and a lot of western SD and eastern MT as well. Not that L2 is where it's at, but if a guy screws himself, at least there's a way out.

In response to a story (elsewhere) about the Wyoming circus, I searched Plugshare. If I turn off all the oddball AND RV plugs, Wyoming is indeed a charging desert. The Dakotas and eastern MT are similar. If you don't stick to the major interstates and have a Tesla, you're pretty much SOL even including L2's. But if you turn on the RV outlets things are (slightly) rosier. So that's a way to get away-from-home/work charging in those places. You just need an appropriate plug adapter; many of them are 240V plugs for RVs, so you can use a L2 charger (or the L2/L1 adaptable that's available with the 2022+ models but probably works in all of them).

EDIT: and I've found that if you're going into the Bush having a Tesla <> J1772 adapter with you is essential. Many if not most hotels in touristy areas have chargers, but a large number of them are Tesla Destination chargers only - no J1772.

 

[DCBolt]

In response to a story (elsewhere) about the Wyoming circus, I searched Plugshare. If I turn off all the oddball AND RV plugs, Wyoming is indeed a charging desert. The Dakotas and eastern MT are similar. If you don't stick to the major interstates and have a Tesla, you're pretty much SOL even including L2's. But if you turn on the RV outlets things are (slightly) rosier. So that's a way to get away-from-home/work charging in those places. You just need an appropriate plug adapter; many of them are 240V plugs for RVs, so you can use a L2 charger (or the L2/L1 adaptable that's available with the 2022+ models but probably works in all of them).

EDIT: and I've found that if you're going into the Bush having a Tesla <> J1772 adapter with you is essential. Many if not most hotels in touristy areas have chargers, but a large number of them are Tesla Destination chargers only - no J1772.

Agreed, i have been trying to figure out how to go from Belfield ND to Casper WY for about two years, no chargers from Belfield to Gillette WY, Spearfish SD finally put a dc fast charger in but still close to 200 miles from my house to Spearfish charger dont know if i want to attempt or not. Might attempt this summer with my 240 volt charger along, might have to stop at a campground, never in winter. Still a charger wasteland in our upper states

 

[GregBrew]

Take a big dog. along , heats the cabin you can get a longer range ...

Unless it's a Three Dog Night...

 

[mattbatt]

According to Google (and the limited effort I was willing to put forth) Here is the list of cars with their MSRP base price for 2023.
The e-golf was discontinued in 2020 and the Kona EV isn't sold everywhere in the USA.
Why would I bother making this list? Because I still contend that my 2020 premier that I bought used at a Jaguar dealership was the best EV that I could afford. I live in hot Florida and the Nissan Leaf's battery degredation is a non-starter.

Jaguar i-pace From $71,300
Audi E-tron From $70,800
Tesla model X From $120,990
Tesla model Y From $65,990
Tesla model 3 From $46,990
Nissan Leaf From $28,040
Hyundai Kona Electric From $33,550*
Volkswagen e-Golf discontinued
BMW i3 Electric from $44,450.00
Ford Mustang Mach-E From $46,895
Volkswagen ID.4 From $38,995
Chevrolet Bolt EV From $26,500

*Currently, KONA Electric is only sold in NC, VA, AZ, UT, TX, GA, FL, TN, AK, HI, CA, CO, CT, MA, MD, ME, MN, NJ, NM, NV, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT, and WA.

 

[Colt Hero]

Based on what I’ve been reading on this Forum for two years now, whenever EVs are discussed where I work (currently 2 Teslas and 300+ ICE vehicles in our parking lots), I always say ... “it’s like replacing your gas tank with one 40% smaller for the Winter!”

 

[jonathanpatr]

Loss is around 25%. I still love the little bugger! heating the cab up in the morning is priceless...

 

[billg]

View attachment 51789

Study: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars (recurrentauto.com)

I left home on Christmas Eve with an estimated range of 220 miles. Temp was -17F. Trip was 70 miles, I I arrived at my destination with 30 miles range remaining,

 

[JRRF]

I left home on Christmas Eve with an estimated range of 220 miles. Temp was -17F. Trip was 70 miles, I I arrived at my destination with 30 miles range remaining,

At -17F you're lucky you got there at all 😂

 

[billg]

I learned not to trust the range estimate.

At -17F you're lucky you got there at all 😂

 

[Don S]

While I do miss the range loss, the upside of the bolt is the very good, no-slop thottle response which allows me to control great traction.

 

[bobr33543]

Stats like this can be misleading. The vehicles that have less diminished range are performance vehicles and use more energy to move the car. So the energy used to heat the vehicle may be close or equal in value to the Bolt but less percentage-wise.

 

[SGW]

I left home on Christmas Eve with an estimated range of 220 miles. Temp was -17F. Trip was 70 miles, I I arrived at my destination with 30 miles range remaining,

Was it 60F the day before, or did you coast the whole way home on the last trip? 😀 I’m in MN and we get in the low 2.X miles/kWh through much of the winter, but it’s been months since we’ve seen 200+ on the GOM.

 

[skimask]

Averaging 1.9m/kwh lately. Was down around 1.5 when it was cold with preconditioning and car parked in the 45F-50F garage overnight.
It rebounds every year around May.
Funny how ICE vehicle drivers don't ***** about drops in fuel mileage...because it IS there whether they'll admit it or not.

 

[atc98092]

Funny how ICE vehicle drivers don't * about drops in fuel mileage...because it IS there whether they'll admit it or not.

That's true, but they usually won't see more than a 10% loss at best, and the waste heat from the ICE keeps them warm so no energy is consumed solely for that purpose.

 

[billg]

Was it 60F the day before, or did you coast the whole way home on the last trip? 😀 I’m in MN and we get in the low 2.X miles/kWh through much of the winter, but it’s been months since we’ve seen 200+ on the GOM.

I am in MN too.

 

[Dimitrij]

Seems like it would be pretty difficult to measure this in a way that allows comparison. Even for the “verified” models, the conditions, heater use, “normal” efficiency, driving distances, technique and terrain, charging patterns, etc would lead to a pretty large margin of error.

In my subjective case (2020 LT) , I get ~4.5mi/kWh in the warmer months (~292mi projected range). Since I put my snow tires on this (mild) winter and reset the trip counter I’m averaging 3.4mi/kWh (221mi range). That’s a 24.3% range reduction from my warmer season efficiency. I expect that I’d get 200mi maximum if I’m running the heater in the winter with temps into the 20-30F range.

You must be a super-careful driver .... do you, by any chance, happen to have a Prius in your driving history?

According to Google (and the limited effort I was willing to put forth) Here is the list of cars with their MSRP base price for 2023.
The e-golf was discontinued in 2020 and the Kona EV isn't sold everywhere in the USA.
Why would I bother making this list? Because I still contend that my 2020 premier that I bought used at a Jaguar dealership was the best EV that I could afford. I live in hot Florida and the Nissan Leaf's battery degredation is a non-starter.

Jaguar i-pace From $71,300
Audi E-tron From $70,800
Tesla model X From $120,990
Tesla model Y From $65,990
Tesla model 3 From $46,990
Nissan Leaf From $28,040
Hyundai Kona Electric From $33,550*
Volkswagen e-Golf discontinued
BMW i3 Electric from $44,450.00
Ford Mustang Mach-E From $46,895
Volkswagen ID.4 From $38,995
Chevrolet Bolt EV From $26,500

*Currently, KONA Electric is only sold in NC, VA, AZ, UT, TX, GA, FL, TN, AK, HI, CA, CO, CT, MA, MD, ME, MN, NJ, NM, NV, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT, and WA.

I would also add that the Leaf and the ID4 starting prices you provided suggest that those are the 40 kWh and 60-something kWh versions respectively, which means their range is inferior to that of the Bolt.

I left home on Christmas Eve with an estimated range of 220 miles. Temp was -17F. Trip was 70 miles, I I arrived at my destination with 30 miles range remaining,

Good to know. Glad you made it there, though

Averaging 1.9m/kwh lately. Was down around 1.5 when it was cold with preconditioning and car parked in the 45F-50F garage overnight.
It rebounds every year around May.
Funny how ICE vehicle drivers don't * about drops in fuel mileage...because it IS there whether they'll admit it or not.

ICE driver here

In my experience, an ICE-only vehicle (the way I drive) will lose 10-15% of its fuel efficiency in the winter, while a properly designed and made hybrid will lose 15-20%. This is a visibly smaller lossthan the 30% for some EV's.

Also, almost all ICE-equipped vehicles have longer range than almost every EV; I don't think it gets below 300-350 miles, and you can get an ultra-long range vehicle wtihout paying an obscene premium. For reference, below is my Fuelly history. The tank is 18 gallons, so even with the cold weather you can reasonably expect 500++ miles.

 

[JRRF]

You must be a super-careful driver .... do you, by any chance, happen to have a Prius in your driving history?



I would also add that the Leaf and the ID4 starting prices you provided suggest that those are the 40 kWh and 60-something kWh versions respectively, which means their range is inferior to that of the Bolt.



Good to know. Glad you made it there, though



ICE driver here

In my experience, an ICE-only vehicle (the way I drive) will lose 10-15% of its fuel efficiency in the winter, while a properly designed and made hybrid will lose 15-20%. This is a visibly smaller lossthan the 30% for some EV's.

Also, almost all ICE-equipped vehicles have longer range than almost every EV; I don't think it gets below 300-350 miles, and you can get an ultra-long range vehicle wtihout paying an obscene premium. For reference, below is my Fuelly history. The tank is 18 gallons, so even with the cold weather you can reasonably expect 500++ miles.

View attachment 52086

And you're paying about four times as much for your fuel, as well as maintenance every 3000 miles, and mandatory more expensive maintenance/repairs at longer intervals.

 

[billg]

And you're paying about four times as much for your fuel, as well as maintenance every 3000 miles, and mandatory more expensive maintenance/repairs at longer intervals.

In my garage my 2022 Bolt is parked next to my 2017 Prius. In my opinion the Prius is more attractive, rides better, has more comfortable seats, has a better sound system, adaptive cruise system, heating system, air conditioning system, traction control, visibility, interior trim quality, hauling capacity, headlights and regenerative braking system. When I parked it last fall it had 62 MPG on the current tank and an overall mileage average of 57 MPG.

The Bolt has a larger screen with a great Android Auto integration and I love the remote start/warmup feature. The off-peak charging rate is 4.8 cents/kwh and I do like paying the equivalent of 40 cents/gallon for gas. Filling up the Bolt at home is both easy and convenient but away from home, even with DC Fast charging, a major PIA compared to the Prius,

 

[Dimitrij]

And you're paying about four times as much for your fuel, as well as maintenance every 3000 miles, and mandatory more expensive maintenance/repairs at longer intervals.

I don't think in this strand of the conversation we are comparing the energy cost/mile of EV's vs. ICE vehicles. There is no argument that for a person like me, who has 200 amp service at home and no HOA, electricity is going to be a lot cheaper than gasoline - which is why I bought the EUV. BTW, it's not "four times as much for your fuel"; for me, it's 2.1 times more

So, the conversation is about the relatve drop of energy efficiency among EV's vs. hybrids vs. ICE-only vehicles.

Out of curiosity: what kind of maintenance "every 3000 miles" were you referring to?

 

[JRRF]

"four times as much for your fuel"; for me, it's 2.1 times mor

I pay the equivalent of about $1/gallon of fuel and the Bolt (on order) is even more efficient than my Polestar.

Out of curiosity: what kind of maintenance "every 3000 miles" were you referring to?

Most manufacturers recommend oil changes every 3K miles. Then there are tuneups, transmission flushes, timing belts, brakes, etc. Car maintenance is a hassle and expensive. Anything that minimizes that (EVs) is well worth it.