[billg]

Most manufacturers recommend oil changes every 3K miles. Then there are tuneups, transmission flushes, timing belts, brakes, etc. Car maintenance is a hassle and expensive. Anything that minimizes that (EVs) is well worth it.

I change the synthetic oil in my Prius every 10K miles. I've been driving a Prius since 2005 and have never had a tune-up, transmission flush, timing belt situation, brake replacement (brakes are used very little with regenerative braking). On a 2005 Prius I had to replace a tail light. It went to my daughter and she retired it after 250K miles. Her husband serviced it and I don't have details on the other than he had to replace the small 12V battery. The Prius, being lighter than the Bolt, will probably get more mileage out of its tires.

 

[JRRF]

I change the synthetic oil in my Prius every 10K miles. I've been driving a Prius since 2005 and have never had a tune-up, transmission flush, timing belt situation, brake replacement (brakes are used very little with regenerative braking). On a 2005 Prius I had to replace a tail light. It went to my daughter and she retired it after 250K miles. Her husband serviced it and I don't have details on the other than he had to replace the small 12V battery. The Prius, being lighter than the Bolt, will probably get more mileage out of its tires.

I can understand some of this on a hybrid, but if you've never had your transmission flushed, or your timing belt changed (which is expensive) you are living/driving on borrowed time.

 

[atc98092]

Most manufacturers recommend oil changes every 3K miles.

That hasn't been true for years. Most cars are anywhere from 5K to 10K for oil changes.

 

[John Woods]

Two-cents on two points...

1. In my case the most striking effect of purchasing and daily driving an EV was one day realizing having not stopped for gas or even having been in a convenience store for maybe three weeks.

Thinking probably ICE drivers have no concern about the limited loss of range because they are constantly and routinely putting gas in their tanks regardless of mileage lost or gained. For many it seems a habit that in the face of necessity is best not thought about.

Realized a major part of my life and lifestyle was gone.

Wuhoohuhuhu!

It had taken a few weeks to appreciate the freedom of not having to be watching and worrying about gas prices and estimating how long before adding fuel. How many hours a year did that take?

2. A few days ago a friend relayed a story about making a 45-mile trip back home in his wife's Tesla. Before leaving the Tesla indicated 70-miles of range.

Due to a strong headwind and cold weather, and after finding a charge station sort of on their way, they loaded in 30-minutes of charge, which resulted in a potential of 170-miles available.

At Interstate speeds on the way home after sunset they ran the radio, headlights, and heater.

Pulling in their driveway the car showed 70-miles of range, so the 45-mile trip used up 100-miles of guess-ta-ment.

 

[JRRF]

That hasn't been true for years. Most cars are anywhere from 5K to 10K for oil changes.

Fair point. Of course. The dealers recommend 3k 😂

 

[JRRF]

In my case the most striking effect of purchasing and daily driving an EV was one day realizing having not stopped for gas or even having been in a convenience store for maybe three weeks

I don't miss this one bit 😀

 

[Colt Hero]

... but if you've never had your transmission flushed, or your timing belt changed (which is expensive) you are living/driving on borrowed time.

Most vehicles come with a Timing Chain, which lasts 200,000+ miles ... the effective life of the vehicle. I've been doing my own vehicle maintenance for 30+ years, and I've never changed a Timing Chain! My Mitsubishi had a Timing Belt that I changed at 105,000 miles, and then I drove it to 255,000 miles on that same replacement Belt! Transmission fluids only need to be "changed" every 30,000 miles (two years) ... and this is just what comes out of the drain hole (5 quarts). You don't have to flush the whole thing out! Don't get blinded by "Maintenance Schedules" published by the Manufacturers! Those schedules are self-serving!

As far as EVs being less expensive to maintain ... the jury is surely still out on that one! For starters, you're going to pay more up-front (about $8,000 more) than the equivalent-sized ICE vehicle (and that's how the comparison is done .. by vehicle size). So you're in the hole right out of the gate. Then, you slowly dig yourself out of the hole by saving on fuel costs and maintenance. Once you break even and start to come out ahead, how much longer will the EV last (compared to the ICE vehicle)? If it's gone sooner than the equivalent ICE vehicle, then that's a back-end cost that needs to be added back in (because you'll be buying another vehicle sooner than you otherwise would have). If it's suffered some kind of Battery failure (doesn't have to be the entire Battery ... just a cell or two taking the entire Battery down after the Warranty expires) ... then you've got the equivalent of an ICE engine replacement!).

Everyone here harps on all the savings they're enjoying on the front-end of EV ownership ... and nobody wants to talk about the back-end costs. I'm sure it's because "Hey ... I change cars like I change my underwear! The back-end costs will be someone else's problem!". But it still counts ... because we're comparing lifetime costs of the EV versus lifetime costs of the equivalent ICE vehicle here!

 

[JRRF]

Most vehicles come with a Timing Chain, which lasts 200,000+ miles ... the effective life of the vehicle.

I haven't seen a timing chain since the 80s. My understanding is that most of the smaller engines use belts.

Those schedules are self-serving!

No argument there.

If it's suffered some kind of Battery failure (doesn't have to be the entire Battery ... just a cell or two taking the entire Battery down after the Warranty expires) ... then you've got the equivalent of an ICE engine replacement!).

The battery warranty is at least 100K. And the likelihood of needing a new one even after that is no more than the likelihood of needing an engine replacement. And as Li batteries go bad, they don't just die. You just lose range.

 

[Ajnjr]

Saw another report that said 20 to 30% for the Bolt. I can recall 1 maybe 2 posts from people mentioning these percentages. Various people blame the heater as a major contributor to that loss. Since I don’t live up North I can Niether confirm nor deny theses values. would be curious to see who does

During the summer with the “80%” software setting it charges to about 195 miles on a full charge. In the winter, about 150 miles. That leaves me only 80 miles to use if I do not go under the recommended 70 miles. Hopefully will be better once I get the replacement battery.

 

[Dimitrij]

That hasn't been true for years. Most cars are anywhere from 5K to 10K for oil changes.

In the last two hybrids I have had, there is a "miles to maintenance" counter, which usually goes to 11-12K miles - the way I drive. I am not exactly sure how it works, maybe counting the engine hours rather than miles, or maybe with a more complicated algorithm that also takes into consideration the engine load, RPM, the number of cold starts etc.

This is more or less analogous, I guess, to how the traction battery's lifespan can be calculated. I hope soon they will find a way of repairing the batteries economically - at the local service stations - in the same way they repair the engines, so you don't have to toss a $10K item just because one cell or a $50.00 part needs replacement .

 

[JRRF]

so you don't have to toss a $10K item just because one cell or a $50.00 part needs replacement .

This is unlikely. There are battery management parts that can be replaced (probably a lot more than $50), but batteries don't often just "die". At some point when you have less than 100 miles of range, you may decide to replace/junk it.

 

[Packard V8]

…

….and love…..Eric Clapton. Oceanside Blvd. LP is the best. Thank me later.

I remember it as 461 Ocean Boulevard.

jack vines

 

[OneEV]

In a Bolt I think I could handle up to 300 miles -- one long stop somewhere in the middle. Beyond that I would take my P2, but other than when I was much younger, I rarely drive more than that anywhere.

That's exactly our top distance as well. We have family 300 miles away and generally one stop in summer both ways.

2 stops in winter both ways..lower winter Range and slower charging upto 80% ..

That said I took my Ford escape hybrid last trip because slow charging of Bolt in winter is so frustrating

 

[OneEV]

Was it 60F the day before, or did you coast the whole way home on the last trip? 😀 I’m in MN and we get in the low 2.X miles/kWh through much of the winter, but it’s been months since we’ve seen 200+ on the GOM.

Ummm ..you must be doing on short trips. Yes you can get 3.5 miles/kWh the first 10 miles or so because your battery is relatively warm plugged in and even 50f if you precondition before you leave..


But after by 1/2 hour or so your battery temps fall to upper 30 degrees to low 40. by that time on a 30 degree day your miles/kWh drops to roughly 2.9 ( 175 miles or so)

Temps below 17-18 degrees..drops to 2.7(162 miles)

Below zero 2.1_2.3..top range 138 miles..

And of course real actual range .. subtract at least 5 miles..if you don't you will find yourself stranded with a empty battery because the bolt leaves nothing at the lower end of the battery unlike most other evs.

The Bolt protects the top end of the battery..

I have studied winter Range hard over 3 winters and 100,000 miles driving rideshare

 

[Colt Hero]

This is unlikely. There are battery management parts that can be replaced (probably a lot more than $50), but batteries don't often just "die". At some point when you have less than 100 miles of range, you may decide to replace/junk it.

I think it's like a Timing Chain in an ICE: The Timing Chain needs all the links of the Chain to be intact in order to function properly. If one link in the Chain breaks ... the Chain fails; it is useless at that point. Even if the Chain doesn't break, but just stretches ... the Engine Timing ends up out-of-sync, and you have serious damage with Pistons striking Valves.

In the Battery model, obviously no Pistons and Valves, but the Cells represent the links of a Chain. If one of them dies (or drops too low), we've already seen it take down the Bolt's Battery Pack.

Now maybe, down the road, they'll be able to make the Battery Pack more "Fault Tolerant" ... but right now ... it's not.

 

[JRRF]

I think it's like a Timing Chain in an ICE: The Timing Chain needs all the links of the Chain to be intact in order to function properly. If one link in the Chain breaks ... the Chain fails; it is useless at that point. Even if the Chain doesn't break, but just stretches ... the Engine Timing ends up out-of-sync, and you have serious damage with Pistons striking Valves.

In the Battery model, obviously no Pistons and Valves, but the Cells represent the links of a Chain. If one of them dies (or drops too low), we've already seen it take down the Bolt's Battery Pack.

Now maybe, down the road, they'll be able to make the Battery Pack more "Fault Tolerant" ... but right now ... it's not.

I had a car with a seriously slipped chain and I had to adjust the points constantly because of it.

As for batteries, of course anything can happen. But from a wear and tear perspective, while timing chains and belts do break and leave you stranded, batteries don't normally do that just over time.

 

[OneEV]

Ummm ..you must be doing on short trips. Yes you can get 3.5 miles/kWh the first 10 miles or so because your battery is relatively warm plugged in and even 50f if you precondition before you leave..


But after by 1/2 hour or so your battery temps fall to upper 30 degrees to low 40. by that time on a 30 degree day your miles/kWh drops to roughly 2.9 ( 175 miles or so)

Temps below 17-18 degrees..drops to 2.7(162 miles)

Below zero 2.1_2.3..top range 138 miles..

And of course real actual range .. subtract at least 5 miles..if you don't you will find yourself stranded with a empty battery because the bolt leaves nothing at the lower end of the battery unlike most other evs.

The Bolt protects the top end of the battery..

I have studied winter Range hard over 3 winters and 100,000 miles driving rideshare

Just an example to show my point.. This morning had a amazon delivery about 40 miles out oftown.

Back roads 40-65 mph

No Wind

Temps-16-18 degrees F

Roads clear of snow

Heat Set at 72F.

So yeah ..right on the 2.7 miles/kWh


This is mostly for NEW BOLT OWNERS..this is typical range at these temps on backroads..Interstate subtract another 10-20 miles of range ..AND know that when you get to about 225-27 miles of range left a warning light comes on.

Please do NOT expect to get 180, 200,220, 230 miles of range at these temps..

 

[Colt Hero]

@OneEV : thank you for your transparency and candidness!

 

[usedBolt]

I can understand some of this on a hybrid, but if you've never had your transmission flushed, or your timing belt changed (which is expensive) you are living/driving on borrowed time.

The Gen 2 Prius in particular had a rep for burning up the original transaxle fluid. There was effectively no change schedule, but it was generally found useful to change it in the 75-90K neighborhood. I did ours at about 80K, and it came out nearly black and very burned smelling. The replacement fluid generally lasts the remaining life of the car (and that Prius is still in use by my daughter pushing 175K, after a HV battery replacement just past 150K with a refurb). I think there is a schedule for it in my 2014, but not until somewhere around 125K.

There is no such thing as a life-of-the-car timing BELT. Timing CHAIN is a little different. I think the Prius (at least since Gen 3 if not 2) uses a chain.

 

[usedBolt]

Just an example to show my point.. This morning had a amazon delivery about 40 miles out oftown.

Back roads 40-65 mph

No Wind

Temps-16-18 degrees F

Roads clear of snow

Heat Set at 72F.



View attachment 52234



So yeah ..right on the 2.7 miles/kWh


This is mostly for NEW BOLT OWNERS..this is typical range at these temps on backroads..Interstate subtract another 10-20 miles of range ..AND know that when you get to about 225-27 miles of range left a warning light comes on.

Please do NOT expect to get 180, 200,220, 230 miles of range at these temps..

You don't even have to get that cold. At around 30F, without plugged-in preheating, and with short trips so the cabin never really heats up, I regularly see 2.5-2.8 miles/kwh and a predicted range (on a full hilltop aka ~90% charge) of 170-180 miles. Take it out on a longer trip, though, and it quickly climbs over 3 as the effect of the climate control is overwhelmed by the effect of propulsion. So yes, NEW BOLT OWNERS, driving and weather conditions can significantly lower your range and efficiency from what EPA found in its moderate-temperature lab testing. And that's not really unusual; ICE car gas mileage drops dramatically in cold weather with short trips, too.