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Discussion Starter #21
Definitely Model Y. Better quality, technology and faster charging stations and easier to find them.
I don't agree Tesla produces high quality cars. To be clear I define quality as delivering a consistent product, that meets the companies objective quality standards, the industries objective and subjective quality standards, and reasonable consumer expectations as far as fit and finish. Elon straight out admits that they have poor quality by this definition as their vehicles have issues during scale-up. He also admits that they didn't always give paint enough time to dry is.. What is your definition of quality?

Tesla makes a fine car, but I do not agree that a Tesla vehicle has a higher quality than the Bolt or most other cars for that matter.

In any case I do appreciate the thought that I should more seriously consider the Y. I only have a short test drive in it, perhaps I'll rent one for a trip. Especially if I don't like the Ariya...if it ever comes out.
 

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I don't agree Tesla produces high quality cars. To be clear I define quality as delivering a consistent product, that meets the companies objective quality standards, the industries objective and subjective quality standards, and reasonable consumer expectations as far as fit and finish. Elon straight out admits that they have poor quality by this definition as their vehicles have issues during scale-up. He also admits that they didn't always give paint enough time to dry is.. What is your definition of quality?

Tesla makes a fine car, but I do not agree that a Tesla vehicle has a higher quality than the Bolt or most other cars for that matter.

In any case I do appreciate the thought that I should more seriously consider the Y. I only have a short test drive in it, perhaps I'll rent one for a trip. Especially if I don't like the Ariya...if it ever comes out.
I'm getting a Model Y.

The issues tend to be with fit and finish. If there are problems in those areas I can refuse delivery until they are fixed.

Also, Elon did not say they have poor quality today. He said the best time to buy a car is either at the very beginning of the production run or when production is ramped up. And that's true for any car. Production is now ramped up on the Y and they seem to have the kinks worked out. He said they figured out the paint problem was that they needed an extra 2 minutes to dry.

I'm getting the Model Y because of range, charging speed, and comfort on road trips. 326 miles of range and a charging speed of up to 250 kW sounds really nice.

I've taken plenty of long trips in the Bolt and we've had a lot of fun. But it does get a little difficult when you need to make more than one stop.

Plus, I'm anxious to try out Full Self Driving. I don't care that it costs $10,000. I think it will be worth it.
 

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So what to buy next? I really don't need a car until post covid vaccination so I'm not in a rush. I have my eyes on a few models not out yet that I cannot objectively evaluate but here are my thoughts....I"m a hatchback guy

#1. A new chevy bolt, fully loaded with the larger 259 mile battery. The Chevy is a great option for me if they are discounted at least 20K. That is about where they are at now (mid twenties) and I expect more discounting over the next few months. As long as I have an alterative car for long trips, I consider the Bolt to be near ideal for around town.
#2 The Lyriq: Sounds like a big step up, its still a hatchback and will offer a really nice screen, good range, faster charging and a bit nicer interior. I Dont know if I can wait long enough, I will need a car end of summerish.
#3 Ariya: Should be out soon and looks like a decent hatchback. I'd need the bigger battery. Looks like they have embraced important issues like
CCS charging and a liquid cooled battery.
#4 A few others that can't be driven right now are on my mind
#5 Model Y: Available now, and hopefully they have their fit/finish under control. I'm not a fan of only having a big center screen and the subscription based premium entertainment). This seems like an easy default choice.
#6 Ford Mustang EV: I need to drive this one before I judge too harshly, but in general it sounds a bit too heavy, and the center screen, ugly square dash doesn't do much for me. I'm focusing on the CA edition

I'm also intrigued by the new Audi GT, I find this more attractive than the Porsche.
Of the six (or seven) that you listed, the Lyriq seems to be the most intriguing to me. Not because I'd necessarily need a larger, SUV type vehicle, but rather because it represents the newest battery technology of all the cars listed. We really don't know much about the new Ultium cells, but they really are the first cells designed by an automaker with vehicular use in mind. Everything else are off the shelf formats that are repackaged for automotive use. Even Tesla's 4680 (which might or might not be available by that time in the Model Y) is still a case of trying to fit a round (cylindrical) peg into a square (cuboid) hole.

That being said, the Ultium packs and cells might be available in other, more interesting formats than the Lyriq.
 

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Plus, I'm anxious to try out Full Self Driving. I don't care that it costs $10,000. I think it will be worth it.
I hope they don't kill too many people. That's gonna set back autonomous driving for years.
 

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While agree on the last parts of your statement, I would NOT buy a Model Y. Predicted reliability of the Y is awful per Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars?. I normally will not buy a vehicle w/below average reliability unless there's a really good reason to.

I've posted about the reasons why I didn't buy a Model 3 when the MR version was the cheapest in Jan 2019/end of Dec 2018 in a bunch of places. I instead bought a '19 Bolt at end of Jan 2019. Since then, Tesla has doing nothing to address my issues w/the 3 other than price somewhat. The Y does nothing to address of the 3's issues and is even more $ besides me not liking its styling.

My '19 Bolt is still not under recall (per check of My Chevrolet app and NHTSA's site less than 5 hours ago) and haven't once yet needed the full range of my Bolt. If my Bolt were to get totaled for some reason or turns out to be a POS (hasn't needed any repairs yet), I do wonder what I'd replace it with. It wouldn't be a Y and likely still wouldn't be a 3.

If I did road trips often and it had to be on electric, sure, maybe I might be more inclined due to Tesla's excellent network and DC FCing speeds but the last time I did one was in mid-2017.

(For the record, I'm no fan of GM. My parents had 3 GM products in the past and they weren't very good in reliability. Since then, all vehicles but one have been Japanese. I'd only bought/leased Japanese until Bolt. Those Japanese cars were much better from a reliability POV than the aforementioned 3 GM vehicles.)
I bought a software limited $35k model 3. Had it about a year and then got curious what Carvana would offer for it. Sold it to Carvana for $3k more than I paid for it net of tax credits. Recently bought a 2020 Bolt LT. So have had a Tesla S and 3 plus two Leafs. Considering range, price (value), and build quality I like the Bolt best of the five EVs I have had.
 

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Sold it to Carvana for $3k more than I paid for it
I really don't understand the prices of used Tesla's. Who are these people paying almost as much as new for a car with 20k+ miles on it??? Honestly, if I was one of those people who switched cars every few years I probably wouldn't go with the Bolt because it would cost more than the Tesla after depreciation.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I bought a software limited $35k model 3. Had it about a year and then got curious what Carvana would offer for it. Sold it to Carvana for $3k more than I paid for it net of tax credits. Recently bought a 2020 Bolt LT. So have had a Tesla S and 3 plus two Leafs. Considering range, price (value), and build quality I like the Bolt best of the five EVs I have had.
I think the key part of you statement is Value. I think the Bolt is an excellent value, but if I did not have to pay for the car I would go for the Model Y..
 

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Just had my follow-up call from Ashley this morning. Initially called on Wednesday with a first level advisor and missed the 1st call from Ashley on Friday. Today she offered a long term loaner with gas covered (I said no). Then she took some info from me about my 2019 Premier and said she would forward the repurchase request up the chain and said it could take up to 10 days for a decision. I'm in MD fwiw.
 

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Just had my follow-up call from Ashley this morning. Initially called on Wednesday with a first level advisor and missed the 1st call from Ashley on Friday. Today she offered a long term loaner with gas covered (I said no). Then she took some info from me about my 2019 Premier and said she would forward the repurchase request up the chain and said it could take up to 10 days for a decision. I'm in MD fwiw.
I am in MN and did the same, got a call back within a few days that they had denied the request with the explanation that they “feel they are close to a solution” (although no details were provided) and “there is nothing ELSE wrong with the car.” I bough used, non Chevy dealer, which I think was likely a factor in denying my request. I was told a gas loaner was all they could do. Just adding another data point.
 

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Considering that I will NEVER be able to pry our Bolt away from my wife, I'm patiently awaiting the permanent fix that restores the full mileage capabilities of the battery pack. COVID has eliminated the three annual big mileage trips she would normally take anyway, so we keep the charge set to Hilltop Reserve and await the eventual remedy.

I very skeptical that there will be any fix beyond a complete battery replacement.


"
One of the mechanisms for preventing this is to have a separator that resists the growth of, and puncture by, dendrites. Keeping in mind that this is just a rumor, if this story is true, it would appear that the separator used was inferior to design specifications. This allows the dendrites to grow and fires to occur. Note that this is only under extremely rare circumstances, but enough to be of long-term concern.

If this is the case, it is unlikely that there are any software fixes that could work around this problem. As dendrites can occur in any lithium ion battery at any charge level (although much more likely at a full charge), the only recourse is to replace the batteries. "
 

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haven't once yet needed the full range of my Bolt. If my Bolt were to get totaled for some reason or turns out to be a POS (hasn't needed any repairs yet), I do wonder what I'd replace it with. It wouldn't be a Y and likely still wouldn't be a 3.

If I did road trips often and it had to be on electric, sure, maybe I might be more inclined due to Tesla's excellent network and DC FCing speeds but the last time I did one was in mid-2017.
Mostly agree. It's interesting many EV owners here and on other fora make much of how an EV handles the rare road trip rather than the several times a day utility. Just us, but for our everyday use, we prefer the Bolt to the M3/MY. We have a paid-for ICE in the garage, but if it weren't there, we'd fly and/or rent an ICE for the occasional trip.

And if our Bolt need replacement, it most likely would be with another Bolt.

jack vines
 

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I am in MN and did the same, got a call back within a few days that they had denied the request with the explanation that they “feel they are close to a solution” (although no details were provided) and “there is nothing ELSE wrong with the car.” I bough used, non Chevy dealer, which I think was likely a factor in denying my request. I was told a gas loaner was all they could do. Just adding another data point.
From what I've read, MN'ers are being told to pound sand due to weak lemon laws. MD has tougher lemon laws so hoping for a favorable decision.
 

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Are they doing this for cars purchased used from a non chevy dealer, or only cars bought new?
I am in MN and did the same, got a call back within a few days that they had denied the request with the explanation that they “feel they are close to a solution” (although no details were provided) and “there is nothing ELSE wrong with the car.” I bough used, non Chevy dealer, which I think was likely a factor in denying my request. I was told a gas loaner was all they could do. Just adding another data point.
So there you have it ... in MN, at least.

Judging by the way GM has handled these kinds of cases in the past, they've always seemed to try to minimize their financial exposure. So I'd be surprised if they gave secondary owners a buyback. In theory, the secondary owner got the vehicle at a greatly reduced price anyway ... and by virtue of buying "used" these owners are, in effect, saying 'I'm OK with some battery degradation' at this reduced price point.

But I'd certainly give it a try ... who knows (??) ... your State Lemon Laws may make it happen for you! Good Luck!
 

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I am in MN and did the same
Are you 2017, or still under warranty? MN lemon law only covers during manufacturer warranty, so I'd expect GM to brush-off 2017 owners. But I'd think they would need to work with 2018/2019 owners.

I'm in MN also, and would be interested if GM would make an offer on a 2017. But it seems unlikely. If they do a full battery replacement (especially with 66kwh), then the value of the car will probably rebound.
 

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Are you 2017, or still under warranty? MN lemon law only covers during manufacturer warranty, so I'd expect GM to brush-off 2017 owners. But I'd think they would need to work with 2018/2019 owners.

I'm in MN also, and would be interested if GM would make an offer on a 2017. But it seems unlikely. If they do a full battery replacement (especially with 66kwh), then the value of the car will probably rebound.
I am within warranty by a few thousand miles. I told them I’d be fine with a battery swap or a trade toward a model without the battery issue. I just got a flat refusal, and the rep said I could request again in a few weeks if nothing has changed. I am a bit surprised they didn’t offer any kind of trade up scenario (regardless of how attractive or not). I worry that they are going to try and get out of this without any real fix. I think there is a good chance an upgrade option would end up costing them less than a battery replacement. I like our bolt, but we need max capacity in MN winter.
 

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I am within warranty by a few thousand miles....I just got a flat refusal
I think I see the problem at

The Manufacturer’s Duty to Refund or Replace

The law has special refund and replacement provisions for cars that have substantial defects or problems. Such vehicles are commonly called “lemons.” Under the law, if the manufacturer or its authorized dealer has been unable to repair a car’s problem after a “reasonable number of attempts,” the buyer or lessee may go through a manufacturer’s arbitration program, or to court, to seek a replacement vehicle or a full refund of the car’s purchase price (minus a deduction for use of the vehicle). The law presumes a “reasonable number of attempts” to include any one of the following:
  1. Four or more unsuccessful attempts to repair the same defect; or
  2. One unsuccessful attempt to repair a defect that has caused the complete failure of the steering or braking system and that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven; or,
  3. A car that has been out of service due to warranty repairs for 30 or more cumulative business days.
In each case, the initial defect must occur within the warranty period, or two years following the original delivery date, whichever comes first, but the manufacturer’s repair attempts may extend to the end of the third year. Even if your repair history does not fall into one of the above categories, you may still have a lemon law claim, but it will be harder to prove.
If I'm reading this correctly, the clear "lemon law" period is 2 years after original sale, not the 3-year warranty. However, even outside that, you may still have a lemon law claim. For example, I think it would be pure speculation for GM to claim that your battery was fine for 24 months, and then the defect suddenly appeared (especially if any of the burned-up Bolts were <2 years old). So a lawyer may be able to get some traction there.
 
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