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Cooler Weather Range Question

15K views 62 replies 29 participants last post by  Sean Nelson 
#1 ·
Hello all....seeking advice and information.


I live in the upper mid-west and it just turned cold. Bought my '18 Bolt this past July and it has been perfect. It is garaged all of the time and I use a Level 2 charger. For the entire summer the morning range showed around 249 miles each day. Now that the weather has changed, and the ambient temp in my garage is around 60 F, outside temp in the low 50s - - in these cooler days the morning range shows around 198 miles each morning, it never gets back to 249 or even close.


The Bolt is always plugged in each night. I cannot understand why the range has dropped so much? Is this expected behavior in cooler weather? Or, do you guys think that there is something wrong with the battery? In a couple of months we will have extremely cold weather and the temp in my garage will decrease to just above freezing.....so I wonder what to expect as to range decreases. Is this normal?


In all other areas everything functions normally. Thanks
 
#4 ·
If you have your heater/AC turned on, the range will be much worse in cold weather as the heater/defroster can reduce range by 20-30% alone. If you run only outside air, no AC/heat, and use heated seat/steering wheel instead, you will get much closer to summer range. Also check tire pressure. It will drop ~3-4 pounds in colder weather. Pump up those tires.
 
#8 ·
Wow. I'm in Butte MT at the Continental Divide, AM temps in the low 30s, up to 40-50 lately in the PM. For a change of pace I've been charging to hilltop reserve the past couple charges and I'm still in the 230-240 range. Mostly urban/suburban driving 25-45 mph with a bit of 55 on the way out to mtn bike trails. Heat using only heated seats/steering wheel if needed. Are you doing mostly highway driving? Your numbers are what I'd expect if I were doing exclusively highway driving? I run my tires (and I just put the Blizzak winter tires on) at around 40 PSI.
 
#12 ·
Remember that's why it's called the 'Guess-o-Meter' (GOM). It sounds like you don't have a lot of miles on your Bolt. The accuracy of the GOM improves as you put more miles on your Bolt. The GOM is understandably conservative in it's range estimates.

In cold weather (below 40 degrees F), the battery may use a chunk of energy simply keeping itself warm. See the owners manual.
 
#14 ·
The Bolt does have it's own capacity to manage the battery but in my experience I seldom see much energy going to battery maintenance. Some in very cold temps, which is the only time I always leave the Bolt plugged in. Over the spring and summer I never saw any energy for battery management, but we do not have really warm temps here. As others have noted, the GOM is estimating your range based on its evaluation of your past driving. My only bout of range anxiety came when after showing a range of over 300 I went on a road trip down to Dillon (140 miles RT) and was clocking through the range at an alarming pace...I figured out afterwards I need to make the adjustment and watch my Mi/Kwh. Around town in the summer/spring it's as high as 5.6 or so. On the Interstate it's going to 4.5 or so. As it turned out I had plenty of miles left..100 or so and since it was in town driving after that I probably ended with around 280 on the charge.
 
#16 ·
Opinions and results do vary with the membership here. In the northern tier, we have six months of colder weather and are not going to own a vehicle which requires the use of electric socks, lap robes or seeing our breath in the cabin air. Being comfortable was one of the major advantages of the Bolt versus the i3. Our use would mostly have been within the i3 performance envelope, but in the coldest weather the i3 range becomes marginal even for urban use; having a concern whether the car will get one there and back is not grief we wanted. Never having to ever think about the range or ever have less than our preferred cabin environment made the Bolt the obvious choice over the i3.

Over eighteen months, our GOM average is approx 4 miles per kWh, but as mentioned, that's six months of cold. Our "grade" in the system is always -3 to -5 on climate control and terrain; neither of those are subject to change. We live on a hill and bought a BEV which has enough battery reserve to always be comfortable.

jack vines
 
#20 ·
Getting about 3.2 M/kWh, 180 mile range

Hi,

After 1000 miles (just graduated from a Leaf to a Bolt-very happy about that!) I am getting much less range than expected, usually around 180 miles, average M/kWh 3.2. Car is in Western Washington, temps averaging in the forties, most of my driving is on rural roads around 40 MPH with maybe 25% at 60MPH. Very conditioned to gentle driving technique after 3 years of driving a Leaf with continual range anxiety. Use climate control enough to keep the windshield clear only. I don't see how I can do much better on technique. Does this range seem about right for these conditions?

Thanks for any thoughts.
 
#21 ·
Hi,

After 1000 miles (just graduated from a Leaf to a Bolt-very happy about that!) I am getting much less range than expected, usually around 180 miles, average M/kWh 3.2. Car is in Western Washington, temps averaging in the forties, most of my driving is on rural roads around 40 MPH with maybe 25% at 60MPH. Very conditioned to gentle driving technique after 3 years of driving a Leaf with continual range anxiety. Use climate control enough to keep the windshield clear only. I don't see how I can do much better on technique. Does this range seem about right for these conditions?

Thanks for any thoughts.
Does your car sit outside at night? Car also has a setting to automatically detect conditions for defrosting that might even cause the car to use the air conditioner. Do you precondition the car while plugged in before departing? The car can easily lose range for various reasons with the colder temperatures.
 
#28 ·
I just turn the heat up to 72 and also turn on the steering wheel and seat heaters. At 3 miles per kilowatt it’s still a very efficient car, and range isn’t an issue for my winter driving.

There’s no way I’m dressing for an arctic expedition just to drive my car.
 
#24 ·
I'm getting range in the high 180s miles. This is in So. CA, where current temperatures range from the low 40s F to the mid 60s F. We use preconditioning and the HVAC all the time, and drive it like we stole it. We routinely got 235 miles of range in the Summer. I chalk it up to "low" temperatures. All of our other EVs for the last 20 years have taken a 15-20% hit on range in the Winter, too. It's normal.
 
#25 ·
Hi,

Car is in an unheated garage so it's about at ambient outdoor temp. I haven't preconditioned and generally don't leave it plugged in. Is it a good idea to keep it plugged it so that any battery conditioning while it's parked will come off the grid instead of the battery? Would that be harder on the battery to keep it topped off?
 
#26 · (Edited)
It is recommended that the vehicle be plugged in when temperatures are below 0 °C (32 °F) and above 32 °C (90 °F) to maximize high voltage battery life.

The BOLT does battery temperature management automatically (you may hear odd noises as a coolant pump cycles on and off on its own (for heating or cooling) in the garage from time to time), so, yes leave the BOLT plugged in as per the guidance of the manual when possible.

You will find many examples in the old threads, from a fellow who drives a couple of miles a day (recommendation was to charge every some number of days between 40% and some %, there were other suggestions too) to folks who do near or more than max range (with charging) every day. It doesn't need to be that complicated, depends on how obsessive you are about such things. I just plug in almost always (except for summer thunderstorms) and always use hill top mode (2018) unless a long trip is planned.

Also, pre-condition as a matter of course to help our your cold wx range. Search and browse through the forum and take guidance from others, there are a number of preconditioning strategies.

Mileage reduction is normal below 70F, so no surprise that your mileage is down at 40F (other related post, BTW congrats on the new BOLT!). A lot of the lost range is from cabin heating (thus the importance of pre-conditioning), and other factors as well.

If you don't need the full range day to day, try not to top off regularly. Use "hilltop" (2018), or select a % charge (2019), as per guidance in other posts (there are many threads related to battery care). For another view, Also See: Vertiformed's post: [url]https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-charging-batteries/31345-full-charge-experiment-not-us.html
 
#32 ·
Thanks all for the feedback. Happy to know things are at least in the ballpark. I'll try to be more attentive to preconditioning while plugged in and see what happens.

For now, I'm sitting by the fire warming up after a long drive without any heat to return my leased Leaf, and happy to have a Bolt. Nothing against the Leaf; I see it as sort of a transitional vehicle, whereas the Bolt is really a useful vehicle for our rural setting.
 
#34 ·
I'm in MN, and get about 160miles of range when full. I have 50miles one way commute at freeway speeds (75mph) with the heat on, so I'm about the worst case. It's still relatively warm here (10F+).
Use departure time charging, plus a prewarm, plus always be on the charger.
 
#37 ·
Repost from at the 156 mile range thread:
Here's a real world example from Montana today. Drive from Helena to Butte. 67 miles. 1300 foot elevation gain, temperatures ranged from 14 F to 5 F, full winter driving, roads snowpacked though the driving lane was mostly OK, speed from 50 to 60 mph, heated seat and steering wheel only. Used ~ 100 miles of GOM range...3.1 m/KwH.

Update 1. Earlier this winter I drove up to Helena in below 0 F the whole way. Temps as low as -21. Normal winter GOM cost for the trip up to Helena is ~50 miles. That trip was ~ 60 miles. I relied on the heated seats and steering wheel, and that's about the bottom of where I can do that, at one point I could see my breath in the cabin. I had on a heavier winter jacket but just a ball cap and no gloves. I was worried about the trip uphill back to Butte but it had warmed up into the 20s and it was no problem.
Update 2. After the real world example earlier in the week it's again warmed up a bit into the 30s/40s. I charged up to Hilltop reserve and for just running around town I think I'll be over 200 miles this charge.
 
#40 ·
Quoting myself. How tacky.

But sure enough, the myChevrolet app can be set to notify an owner that they can take a day off, due to excessive cold.


"Climate Notification: During extremely cold temperatures, your vehicle could be immobilized if it becomes too cold. Low-Temperature notifications are sent if extremely cold temperatures are forecasted, within 36 hours from the time you set."​

Per the manual, these chunks:


BATTERY TOO COLD, PLUG IN TO WARM
This message displays during extremely cold temperatures, when the vehicle will not start until the high voltage battery is warm enough. Plug the vehicle in to an AC charging station and make sure POWER is off to allow the charging system to warm the high voltage battery, then the vehicle can be started.

DC charging cannot be used to recover a cold high voltage battery.​

And:


Parking the vehicle in extreme cold for several days without the charge cord connected may cause the vehicle not to start. The vehicle will need to be plugged in to allow the high voltage battery to be warmed sufficiently.​

But nowhere is there an actual specification for minimum operating temperature. It would be nice to know at what temperature the vehicle will no longer start, after the maximum amount of battery for stand-alone conditioning has been used and the battery has subsequently cooled to ambient temperature.
 
#44 ·
Yeah the DCFC thing is an interesting conundrum. Battery too low to power heater, no help from AC inverter, so no-go. This can be solved with some dollars and parts but brackets have to be put on edge cases or the car becomes unaffordable.

I wonder about revelations as the non-Canada version of the upcoming (Kona? Niro? can't remember which) vehicles lacking battery supplementary battery heating are deployed in the northern tier of the US. Will people kick about slower charging? We'll see.
 
#54 ·
Last winter we had a stretch of some 0-8F days... I was seeing the same 140-150mi EV range.
 
#56 ·
^ setting the cabin temp to 70F doesn't mean it actually hits 70F inside....
 
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#58 ·
-9F this morning. Total full range of 122 miles. We're supposed to loose 10 more degrees over the weekend. If so, it's likely I might see a full range under 100 miles. I attached a chart that shows how range drops off quickly starting at -10F.

Also a good day to have an indoor job.
I had the windshield replaced on my Prius this past Monday. That poor tech had to work in +10F, which is balmy comparatively.
 

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#59 ·
Saw -8F today. Range went up to 133miles.
Traffic has been a tad lighter, since all the wusses are staying home, given the alleged -60F windchill, but it is as if I have found the floor on my range and decreasing temperature is not further reducing range.
I'm plugged in or driving all but during lunch and the vehicle is charging through the morning, so the battery should be warm.
(I'm sure my electric bill is going up.)
It's supposed to get colder tomorrow and again next week, so we'll see what happens then.
 
#61 ·
-29F today. Range still 122, which is surprisingly higher than I expected. Even with 1.5 prewarms.

My feet never got warm as I drove up. Grr.

On a side note, it's so cold here that fiber lines are dying, so there are widespread internet outages.

And personally, my fountain froze, so my cattle don't have anything to drink today.
 
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