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Regardless of whether we as a species can ever get along (we can't btw) if we never leave earth we will cease to be.

The Sun will eventually grow cold and go out.

The Expanse series is more how humans in space would look like over anything like star trek.
Yes, we will go extinct. The sooner we admit that, the better our chances of dealing with the things that could snuff us out in hundreds of years. Worrying about the sun in five billion years is simply pretending we are gods.

I stopped reading fantasy fiction in my early twenties.
 

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Yes, we will go extinct. The sooner we admit that, the better our chances of dealing with the things that could snuff us out in hundreds of years. Worrying about the sun in five billion years is simply pretending we are gods.

I stopped reading fantasy fiction in my early twenties.
Of course we will go extinct, trying to delay the inevitable is a key part of life. It is inevitable that you will stop breathing but you push on delaying it as long as possible even though it is inevitable. The point was not to worry about what destroys earth but that it will be destroyed and no matter what happens we need to get off this rock to delay the inevitable as long as possible. It's to bad you stopped reading stories like the Expanse you can miss meaningful works like Dune, A Brave New World, and others.
 

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you can miss meaningful works like Dune, A Brave New World, and others.
Read Brave New World, Earth Abides, all of Jules Verne, and much of Ray Bradbury in high school. Read Dune right after high school. Loved Kurt Vonnegut, and Ursula Le Guin.
 

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The point was not to worry about what destroys earth but that it will be destroyed and no matter what happens we need to get off this rock to delay the inevitable as long as possible.
It is fascinating that two people can look at exactly the same data, and come to diametrically opposed answers as to what the data mean. When you and redpoint5 get to Mars, send me a postcard. ;)
 

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It is fascinating that two people can look at exactly the same data, and come to diametrically opposed answers as to what the data mean. When you and redpoint5 get to Mars, send me a postcard. ;)
We're not going to Mars or the Moon, war is coming.
 

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Read Brave New World, Earth Abides, all of Jules Verne, and much of Ray Bradbury in high school. Read Dune right after high school. Loved Kurt Vonnegut, and Ursula Le Guin.
Never said you didn't read those just said you could miss some meaningful work if you close yourself off to a genre though I prefer Wells over Verne myself.

It is fascinating that two people can look at exactly the same data, and come to diametrically opposed answers as to what the data mean. When you and redpoint5 get to Mars, send me a postcard. ;)
Not sure what diametrically opposed answers you mean. We both agree humanity will become extinct at some point so if we agree on that my agreeing with Musk that we should try to avoid that if possible is sound. If the species leaves the planet in part or in whole then the species puts off extinction longer. I think you you just don't see humanity making it to be a space-faring species and I agree I doubt it will happen but we should try over the nihilistic why bother.
 

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I think you you just don't see humanity making it to be a space-faring species and I agree I doubt it will happen but we should try over the nihilistic why bother.
I see those who say, we are trashing the planet so let's just leave, as the nihilists. That view gives an SUV sized loophole to those who want to continue business as usual.
 

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I see those who say, we are trashing the planet so let's just leave, as the nihilists. That view gives an SUV sized loophole to those who want to continue business as usual.
I never said "we are trashing the planet so let's just leave" though. I said to put off humanities extinction we would have to leave. While I am no environmentalist I do own an EV and I would be shocked if anyone on this forum had the attitude of "we are trashing the planet so let's just leave".
 

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I would be shocked if anyone on this forum had the attitude of "we are trashing the planet so let's just leave".
There are probably folks on this forum who think they are going up in the Rapture, so it doesn't matter what they do. How is that different?
 

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I'm a fan of Crichton, and more recently Andy Weir.

"Trashing the planet" is a subjective statement. Humanity is continuing to flourish in every measurable way, and that can fit within a definition of planet health.

There is no such thing as a costless transaction. Absolutely every decision has a cost. If human flourishing comes at the cost of some species extinction, then it fits within my value system of trade-offs. My preference would be flourishing and diversity of species, but as I say, there is no such thing as a costless transaction. From the beginning of agriculture, we've been modifying nature to better serve us.

There's also no meaningful distinction between the Global Warming religion and any other traditional religion with regards to zealots believing highly improbable things. 12 years to avert a warming Armageddon is as nonsensical as 12 years until rapture.
 

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There is no such thing as a costless transaction.

There's also no meaningful distinction between the Global Warming religion and any other traditional religion with regards to zealots believing highly improbable things. 12 years to avert a warming Armageddon is as nonsensical as 12 years until rapture.
You were one of the folks I was thinking of, driving through that SUV sized loophole. Thanks for making my point.

Imagining that we can somehow get a "Get out of jail free card", distinct from every other species on this planet, is a religion.
 

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Imagining that we can somehow get a "Get out of jail free card", distinct from every other species on this planet, is a religion.
I don't imagine that. Everything is unsustainable because entropy is an inescapable law of the universe. The fact that the universe started out with potential at all is an unexplainable miracle.

To that end, I don't value longevity as much as you. It isn't enough to merely persist as long as possible. Exploration is worth sacrifice (everything has a cost).
 

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To that end, I don't value longevity as much as you. It isn't enough to merely persist as long as possible. Exploration is worth sacrifice (everything has a cost).
So you don't have kids yet. I am all for exploring. I even hope to see a human mission to Mars. I don't think they will survive, but if folks like you are willing to take the risk, I am fine with that.
 

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There are probably folks on this forum who think they are going up in the Rapture, so it doesn't matter what they do. How is that different?
The bible says nothing about a "rapture", it does say the Lord hates those that destroy the Earth.
 

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Wow, I can't handle reality. I'm logging off now so I can play my VR game and shoot some zombies.
 
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