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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone, new to the forums and hope to get my new Bolt soon! However, I just had one of the worse dealer experiences at Koons Chevy in White Marsh, MD. I spent 2 hours this morning haggling with the salesman over a 36mo lease for the 2018 Premier model and got nowhere :(

They offered a bunch of other smaller dealer incentives, but are claiming that they cannot offer the full $7500 tax credit. The current dealer price before the tax credit is advertised at $36,997, which is actually $2k less than my current 2014 Leaf's agreed upon price. From my past experiences and from what I've read from others, every other manufacturer (GM included) takes the $7500 off the advertised price. The offer they initially gave me after explaining the current dealer incentives was $34,227, with NO mention of the $7500 credit. I then inquired about the credit, prompting them to leave the table yet again and come back saying that the $3250 incentive was actually part of this credit and that the leasing company was unwilling to past along the other half. This right after he just explained that the $3250 was a totally different incentive 20 mins ago! And that this is the new GM policy for 2018, I call BS! After I explained how the leasing company is the one who gets the $7500 and the entire amount is supposed to past down to the customer, they flat out refused and said the leasing company wasn't willing to past along the full tax credit.

Here's their current written offer:
MSRP - $42,530
Sales Price - $40,477
Incentive 1 - $2,500
Incentive 2 - $500
Incentive 3 - $3,250
Agreed Upon Price - $34,277
MFG Destination - $875
Down Payment - $2,500

36 Months/12K Miles
$549/mo.
 

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Hi Everyone, new to the forums and hope to get my new Bolt soon! However, I just had one of the worse dealer experiences at Koons Chevy in White Marsh, MD. I spent 2 hours this morning haggling with the salesman over a 36mo lease for the 2018 Premier model and got nowhere :(

They offered a bunch of other smaller dealer incentives, but are claiming that they cannot offer the full $7500 tax credit. The current dealer price before the tax credit is advertised at $36,997, which is actually $2k less than my current 2014 Leaf's agreed upon price. From my past experiences and from what I've read from others, every other manufacturer (GM included) takes the $7500 off the advertised price. The offer they initially gave me after explaining the current dealer incentives was $34,227, with NO mention of the $7500 credit. I then inquired about the credit, prompting them to leave the table yet again and come back saying that the $3250 incentive was actually part of this credit and that the leasing company was unwilling to past along the other half. This right after he just explained that the $3250 was a totally different incentive 20 mins ago! And that this is the new GM policy for 2018, I call BS! After I explained how the leasing company is the one who gets the $7500 and the entire amount is supposed to past down to the customer, they flat out refused and said the leasing company wasn't willing to past along the full tax credit.

Here's their current written offer:
MSRP - $42,530
Sales Price - $40,477
Incentive 1 - $2,500
Incentive 2 - $500
Incentive 3 - $3,250
Agreed Upon Price - $34,277
MFG Destination - $875
Down Payment - $2,500

36 Months/12K Miles
$549/mo.
FWIW, when I bought our Bolt in early 2017, the same thing happened. I was looking at a lease, rather than purchase, and the tax credit wasn't passed through. Part of why I chose not to lease.
 

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Hi Everyone, new to the forums and hope to get my new Bolt soon! However, I just had one of the worse dealer experiences at Koons Chevy in White Marsh, MD. I spent 2 hours this morning haggling with the salesman over a 36mo lease for the 2018 Premier model and got nowhere :(

They offered a bunch of other smaller dealer incentives, but are claiming that they cannot offer the full $7500 tax credit. The current dealer price before the tax credit is advertised at $36,997, which is actually $2k less than my current 2014 Leaf's agreed upon price. From my past experiences and from what I've read from others, every other manufacturer (GM included) takes the $7500 off the advertised price. The offer they initially gave me after explaining the current dealer incentives was $34,227, with NO mention of the $7500 credit. I then inquired about the credit, prompting them to leave the table yet again and come back saying that the $3250 incentive was actually part of this credit and that the leasing company was unwilling to past along the other half. This right after he just explained that the $3250 was a totally different incentive 20 mins ago! And that this is the new GM policy for 2018, I call BS! After I explained how the leasing company is the one who gets the $7500 and the entire amount is supposed to past down to the customer, they flat out refused and said the leasing company wasn't willing to past along the full tax credit.

Here's their current written offer:
MSRP - $42,530
Sales Price - $40,477
Incentive 1 - $2,500
Incentive 2 - $500
Incentive 3 - $3,250
Agreed Upon Price - $34,277
MFG Destination - $875
Down Payment - $2,500

36 Months/12K Miles
$549/mo.
The $7,500 credit is not always passed along as a CCR, it can also be used to buy down the MF and/or artificially raise the residual - both of which result in lower monthly payments. The $549 seems high, but not sure what your T&L is in MD (and how sales tax is handled - upfront on entire purchase price? on monthly payment amount? Are the incentives taxed like in CA?) If you break it down with residual, MF, Taxes, etc, we might be able to better judge what is going on.

Current Nissan Lease offer on a 2108 SL ($37,735 MSRP) is $421/mo for 36/12 with the $2500 down. That's before T&L, doc fees, etc.

And it is common misconception that the leasing company is supposed to pass along the $7,500. As the purchaser of the vehicle, it is their tax credit - not yours. That is the way IRC 30D is written. Most often they pass on at least a portion, but there is no requirement that they do so.

The heavily subsidized lease deals that result in very low monthly payments seem to be on hiatus for the time being from most manufacturers. We may see them again (or then again maybe not). If you're willing to wait, it is very unlikely the the price you are being quoted will go up. It can often be productive to walk away and let them know your are interested - but not at that price. Tell them to keep an eye on the lease deals and get back to you if a better deal comes along.
 

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$549 a month with $2,500 down?

That’s the worst lease deal I’ve seen.

You could buy the car and finance for five years for less, and get the full $7500 tax credit if you owe at least that much in taxes in 2018. I believe that MD also has a $3k state credit, if you qualify for both fed + state that’s over $10k in credits.

Leasing doesn’t make any sense at that price.
 

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I'm afraid I can't speak directly to leasing as we purchased. But, we did sit down at Koons up in White Marsh. It was an average experience - not too bad really. However, they couldn't get even close to other dealers. We ended up driving out to Criswell in Thurmont and got a markedly better deal for the extra 45 min drive and came home with our Bolt as they had what we wanted in stock. The worst part was sitting around waiting for the finance guy to finish up with the previous customer.

As TimBolt said above, you may be better off buying at that price. $549 x 36 = $19,750 + $2,500 down + $7,500 Fed + $3,000 State incentives and you're at almost $33,000 - you almost own it. For example, they have this red Premier for ~$38.4k
http://www.criswellchevroletofthurm...Bolt_EV-5dr_HB_Premier-Thurmont-MD/3168190933

PS: I have no affiliation with Criswell at all. Dealt with Maddie and she was great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The main problem with purchasing the car is that I never owe that much in taxes as a freelance web designer. I'll never come close to claiming all those rebates come tax time, at least as far as this year is concerned. This is why I am relying so heavily on the 100% pass through of the credit from the leasing company. I would have never been able to afford my current Leaf if it were not for the full credit I received back in 2014. To me it's blatant greed and corruption on part of the leasing company, they are already making money on the deal but they always want more. I can just imagine a cabal of big wig executives sitting around a large table in a smoke filled room discussing how they can screw the consumer over more.

I have my lease inspection scheduled this coming Thursday May 3rd at my Nissan dealership, and already called ahead to the sales department. Hopefully I can get some kind of deal for the new 2018 Leaf since it's always easier entering into a new agreement with the same company.
 

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The main problem with purchasing the car is that I never owe that much in taxes as a freelance web designer. I'll never come close to claiming all those rebates come tax time, at least as far as this year is concerned. This is why I am relying so heavily on the 100% pass through of the credit from the leasing company. I would have never been able to afford my current Leaf if it were not for the full credit I received back in 2014. To me it's blatant greed and corruption on part of the leasing company, they are already making money on the deal but they always want more. I can just imagine a cabal of big wig executives sitting around a large table in a smoke filled room discussing how they can screw the consumer over more.

I have my lease inspection scheduled this coming Thursday May 3rd at my Nissan dealership, and already called ahead to the sales department. Hopefully I can get some kind of deal for the new 2018 Leaf since it's always easier entering into a new agreement with the same company.
Before placing all blame on the leasing company (GM), I would try a few more dealerships.

Like you, I wasn’t able to take advantage of the federal tax credit on a purchase, so I leased. Back in June of 2017 I leased at $250/mon, $2.5k down, 10k miles per year. At that price it’s pretty clear GM was applying most or all of the tax credit, and NY also had a $2k rebate paid directly to the dealer.

Good luck shopping.
 
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I would have never been able to afford my current Leaf if it were not for the full credit I received back in 2014. To me it's blatant greed and corruption on part of the leasing company, they are already making money on the deal but they always want more. I can just imagine a cabal of big wig executives sitting around a large table in a smoke filled room discussing how they can screw the consumer over more.

I have my lease inspection scheduled this coming Thursday May 3rd at my Nissan dealership, and already called ahead to the sales department. Hopefully I can get some kind of deal for the new 2018 Leaf since it's always easier entering into a new agreement with the same company.
Nissan heavily subsidized most leases in 2014, partly by placing an unrealistic residual on the vehicle. They aren't doing that anymore. The residuals listed on the Nissan website are in the 35% range vs the 50-60% they had previously used. Placing an artificially high residual on a lease results in a lower payment, but at lease end the finance company has a car "on the books" at well over it's market value. That's why Nissan financial was offering owners $7K off of the original buyout to get them to keep the car. They still wound up with thousands of vehicles on which they were upside down by up to $10K after they went to auction and they paid the fees.

It's really pretty simple math. If you lease a $30K ($37,500 - $7,500, i.e.) car that is worth $15K after 3 years, you've "used up" $15K which you will pay over the 36 months (plus interest). That's over $400 month in depreciation alone.

People got used to the heavily subsidized leases (over and above the Tax Credit) and now view that as expected and normal. Nissan took it in the shorts on lease returned LEAF's, and have since changed their policies. It may seem like greed to you when they charge so much more than they used to, but in reality it is due to refusing to take the huge losses many finance companies were hit with. It will be interesting to see how your LEAF proposal compares to the Bolt.
 

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Yes, leases are about how much the manufacturer wants to move product and how cheap the finance company can borrow the money. Alfa Romeo wanted to get cars on the street, so leased them dirt cheap for a while. I didn't want another ICE, but was tempted.

BMW wanted to move i3s and there were great lease deals. GM doesn't care about moving Bolts anywhere other than CA; they seemed to get the gimmee leases. The lease deals offered up here in WA on the GM website and at the dealer were just rape-shite. One would have to want a Bolt really badly and have no way to take advantage of the tax credit to pay those lease monthlies.

jack vines
 

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The main problem with purchasing the car is that I never owe that much in taxes as a freelance web designer.
Since you're freelance then this probably doesn't apply, but just in case I'll point out that it's not what you owe at the end of the year, it's the amount that you pay the federal government. If you've paid $11,000 in tax over the course of the year through installments and your actual federal tax only works out to $10,000, then you'll actually get a tax refund and you won't "owe" anything because you already paid it. But the full $7,500 rebate still applies, since you still gave that $10,000 to the feds.
 

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Here's their current written offer:
MSRP - $42,530
Sales Price - $40,477
Incentive 1 - $2,500
Incentive 2 - $500
Incentive 3 - $3,250
Agreed Upon Price - $34,277
MFG Destination - $875
Down Payment - $2,500

36 Months/12K Miles
$549/mo.
Yikes! I thought the one I previously posted in another thread ($5,000 down and $445/month) was rough. Our lease experiences in MD weren't the best either. We were definitely better off buying based on what was being offered lease-wise.

I'm afraid I can't speak directly to leasing as we purchased. But, we did sit down at Koons up in White Marsh. It was an average experience - not too bad really. However, they couldn't get even close to other dealers. We ended up driving out to Criswell in Thurmont and got a markedly better deal for the extra 45 min drive and came home with our Bolt as they had what we wanted in stock. The worst part was sitting around waiting for the finance guy to finish up with the previous customer.

As TimBolt said above, you may be better off buying at that price. $549 x 36 = $19,750 + $2,500 down + $7,500 Fed + $3,000 State incentives and you're at almost $33,000 - you almost own it. For example, they have this red Premier for ~$38.4k
http://www.criswellchevroletofthurm...Bolt_EV-5dr_HB_Premier-Thurmont-MD/3168190933

PS: I have no affiliation with Criswell at all. Dealt with Maddie and she was great.
Didn't go as far up as White Marsh when we were canvassing Bolts. Criswell (we went to the one in Gaithersburg) seems to be very experienced when it comes to Bolts, to echo the sentiments of @Enzeder. They always seem to have great Bolt inventory. We ended up buying from JBA in Glen Burnie though, just because they still had a 2017 in stock, which represented a good chunk of savings that Criswell couldn't match (because they already sold all their 2017 inventory at that time). I'm with the others, just because of how bad the lease offerings are in our area, you really may be better off buying instead.
 

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Yikes! I thought the one I previously posted in another thread ($5,000 down and $445/month) was rough. Our lease experiences in MD weren't the best either. We were definitely better off buying based on what was being offered lease-wise.



Didn't go as far up as White Marsh when we were canvassing Bolts. Criswell (we went to the one in Gaithersburg) seems to be very experienced when it comes to Bolts, to echo the sentiments of @Enzeder. They always seem to have great Bolt inventory. We ended up buying from JBA in Glen Burnie though, just because they still had a 2017 in stock, which represented a good chunk of savings that Criswell couldn't match (because they already sold all their 2017 inventory at that time). I'm with the others, just because of how bad the lease offerings are in our area, you really may be better off buying instead.
I can also vouch for the good experience I had at Criswell in Gaithersburg. Got a fantastic lease from them (<$290/month before rebates, 1.5K down, 12k miles/yr) on a fully loaded 2017 LT. This was in Oct. 2017 though so I don't know how good or bad the deals may have gotten since then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I can also vouch for the good experience I had at Criswell in Gaithersburg. Got a fantastic lease from them (<$290/month before rebates, 1.5K down, 12k miles/yr) on a fully loaded 2017 LT. This was in Oct. 2017 though so I don't know how good or bad the deals may have gotten since then.
The main issue seems to be that back in 2017 GM was still giving the full 100% pass through credit to lessees. I even tried showing the salesman all the deals I've seen people in MD get and what some of my friends have gotten in the past, but he didn't care because in 2018 GM decided to either not pass through anything or only up to 50%. It looks like in MD at least only people with way more disposable income are able to afford these new lease terms. I just finished up detailing my Leaf for the end of lease inspection, so hopefully I do not get too hammered with fees if I trade up for the new 2018 Leaf SL. And if it turns out that Nissan is indeed following suit with GM concerning the credit, I guess I have no choice but to explore the purchase option and hope for the best.
 

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The main issue seems to be that back in 2017 GM was still giving the full 100% pass through credit to lessees.
They still are.
Without applying the $7,500 to a CCR and/or residual bump, the payments on an LT would be ~$700/mo (before T&L, etc.)

Some people seem to have a hard time with concept that even if it is not shown 100% as a CCR, they are still benefiting from other subsidized terms that reduce their monthly payment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
They still are.
Without applying the $7,500 to a CCR and/or residual bump, the payments on an LT would be ~$700/mo (before T&L, etc.)

Some people seem to have a hard time with concept that even if it is not shown 100% as a CCR, they are still benefiting from other subsidized terms that reduce their monthly payment.
Well from what I recently experienced had I received the full 100% credit up front I'd be driving my new Bolt right now. It also made the difference back in 2014 when I leased my current Leaf.
 

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Well from what I recently experienced had I received the full 100% credit up front I'd be driving my new Bolt right now. It also made the difference back in 2014 when I leased my current Leaf.
Still the same misconception.
The $7500 taken "up front" or "on the back" reduces the payment by the same amount.
The lease deal you got on your LEAF included additional discounts on top of the $7500 credit. That's what they had to do to move them (and why your residual is also very likely well above FMV although the strong export market on used LEAF's has driven the price up in the US by about $3-4K over the last 6-8 months).

GM Financial is not doing themselves any favors by reducing lease payments using other methods besides a CCR. Too many people don't understand the math behind leases. Even when the additional incentives were offered at the end of last year, GM Financial never showed a $7,500 CCR from the Tax Credit.

They have always applied only a portion of it as a CCR (which benefits customers in CA and some other states where that type of incentive is taxed)
 

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It's a GM decision

Hi Everyone, new to the forums and hope to get my new Bolt soon! However, I just had one of the worse dealer experiences at Koons Chevy in White Marsh, MD. I spent 2 hours this morning haggling with the salesman over a 36mo lease for the 2018 Premier model and got nowhere :(

They offered a bunch of other smaller dealer incentives, but are claiming that they cannot offer the full $7500 tax credit.
(snip)

This is a GM decision. I'm confident most dealers aren't happy about the decision either. I, and others on the forum, have had difficulty finding a Bolt for sale. GM faces several problems. One is they are using the Bolt to drive down "fleet emissions" quotas in many states which allows GM to sell more high margin SUV's. My guess is the Bolt is still being sold at a loss. So, once GM is far enough under quota, GM wants to slow down the sales. One way to do that is to all but eliminate the leases.
 

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