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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I tried it this weekend below is a cut / paste to GM; my question is has anyone gotten a FAST 25kw out of the unit? My dash clearly shows it never went beyond 21kw / "medium" even on a mostly empty battery.
." In regards of Dealership fast charging I tried the one in Amarillo Texas - AutoNation Chevrolet; the unit was stuck on medium making it go no faster than 21kw- not 25kw. It seems reasonable that GM should require dealerships make the unit accessible to public 24/7 and that the units are set to deliver current at highest power possible! The extra 4kw power means the end user can finish up charging close to an hour quicker! "
 

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I tried it this weekend below is a cut / paste to GM; my question is has anyone gotten a FAST 25kw out of the unit? My dash clearly shows it never went beyond 21kw / "medium" even on a mostly empty battery.
." In regards of Dealership fast charging I tried the one in Amarillo Texas - AutoNation Chevrolet; the unit was stuck on medium making it go no faster than 21kw- not 25kw. It seems reasonable that GM should require dealerships make the unit accessible to public 24/7 and that the units are set to deliver current at highest power possible! The extra 4kw power means the end user can finish up charging close to an hour quicker! "
Dealerships have no interest in becoming a "gas station" for their least profitable car. GM has no interest in making the dealerships mad by forcing them to offer the service to the public. An extra 4kW only saves about 25 minutes assuming no taper, which in practice happens very soon in the charging cycle. It wouldn't save an hour of charging unless you had something like a 200 kWh battery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes I realize they dont want to but if theyre serious about selling EV more than a few thousand a year i think its a reasonable expectation they do it. I would bet money the charger costs GM under $5000 per station.
 

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Just be grateful that the Chevy dealer let you charge, and that the charger wasn鈥檛 blocked. Some dealers are pretty good about letting Bolts charge, some, not so good.
 

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Yes I realize they dont want to but if theyre serious about selling EV more than a few thousand a year i think its a reasonable expectation they do it. I would bet money the charger costs GM under $5000 per station.
25 kW sucks for a DCFC anyhow. The dealerships install the minimum power chargers that GM requires to sell the cars because they have no interest in becoming a gas station, and because there is an ongoing expense called a "demand charge". The demand charge is an amount they have to pay the electric company every month just for the high power connection to the grid, and doesn't include the actual amount of energy used. The demand charge is based on how much peak power is needed from the system, so a 25 kW charger would cost much less than a 50 kW charger since it has half of the "demand".

GM has little interest in selling the Bolt, and dealerships even less. Why would they invest in gas stations for cars they don't even want to sell? Why is it reasonable to expect a gas station for EVs at a dealership, but not regular gas stations for regular cars?

Back to your comment about only getting 21 kW out of a 25 kW rated charger; chargers are rated by their maximum voltage times their maximum current. Unless your car can accept the maximum voltage and current, you won't get the maximum rating from the charger. More useful is to find out the maximum amperage the charger is capable of supplying as the Bolt has a ~400v battery, and most chargers are rated for ~500v. In other words, you should expect about 4/5 of the charger rating, which is very close to what you observed.

I am going to guess it is not set to "medium." I suspect it has maximum output of 25 kW on 240 volts, and depends on the incoming voltage to attain that maximum. A 220 volt line will not get them 25 kW.
The Bolt is limited to something like 7.2 kW on 240v AC. The 25 kW referenced by the OP is supplied via DCFC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The Bolt is limited to something like 7.2 kW on 240v AC. The 25 kW referenced by the OP is supplied via DCFC.
The 25 kWh DC fast chargers at Chevy dealers run of 240 volt AC, just like my home EVSE. Although they are actual step-up chargers, not just smart cords.


So it seems like 25kw is possible but for some reason it wasn't implemented on the charger I tried. My best guess is that it's set to medium speed out of the box and the dealership didn't bother to "reprogram" it to default to high speed.
 

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I've used dealership charging twice

I purchased my Chevy Bolt EV 3 months ago. Don't know much about the technical aspects of charging, but the salesman was very eager to sell the car and told me that I could "drive in and charge at any dealership nationwide 24/7." Roger Dean Chevrolet in West Palm Beach, FL has open access to a CCS DC charger, and I was told that it could fully charge in 4 hours. Only tried it a couple of time for about one hour each before I got my L2 charger at home, and indeed it was accessible after business hours. Only problem was that during business hours the EV charger is used as a parking space and I had to hunt down the owner of the vehicle to move it. One other time, I was out of town in Stuart, FL and went to the local dealership who didn't have a CCS DC charger, but only an L2. They were very happy to direct me to the spot and let me charge there. It seems that dealerships do want to promote the sale of EV's but, since the industry is still in it's infancy, they have haven't yet begun to mass-market EV's, and they are waiting for the right time. In other words, we are being used as guinea pigs to see how the EV market will fare in the future. The good thing is that, since they still haven't sold over 200,000 units, we can still benefit from the IRS tax credit for 2018.
 

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Those 25 kW DC fast chargers were never meant for customer use. GM wanted the dealers to have one so they could service/troubleshoot Bolts with DC charging. GM may have recently asked dealers to offer them for customers, but as far as I know dealers are under no obligation to do so. My local dealer never did get one. They still have a single 3.3 kW EVSE at the back of the showroom. Outside of a major metro area, there simply aren't enough EV drivers to warrant spending the money on one, and then having to deal with the hassle of keeping the space open, and the charger functioning, for out of towners who will never buy a car from you. Our local Ford dealership is closing. This place has been there since before WWII. The whole industry is changing.
 

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Seattle area experience

My experience in the Seattle area is different. I have a 2018 red premier, and they offered use of their charger anytime as part of the pitch, though since I have a level 2 in my garage, I dont need it much. I also have 3 years worth of free car washes etc. The only complaint I have up here is that we dont get all the great spiffs that cali drivers get (i.e. free access to hov lanes, better electric utility subsidies (though my charge price at home is between .09 and 11 cents per kwh)). Their service is more or less up to speed on updates etc, though they did turn green when I asked if they've ever replaced a battery pack. I dont blame them considering how much time it takes.


Bottom line for this time in history is that if you buy one of these you will be pioneering some and if you dont like twiddling with them and the adjustments you have to make to enjoy them, then a hybrid is probably a better choice. Since Im an inveterate tinkerer this is my daily driver and experiment car. I am retired, so I have time for this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My experience in the Seattle area is different. I have a 2018 red premier, and they offered use of their charger anytime as part of the pitch, though since I have a level 2 in my garage, I dont need it much. I also have 3 years worth of free car washes etc. The only complaint I have up here is that we dont get all the great spiffs that cali drivers get (i.e. free access to hov lanes, better electric utility subsidies (though my charge price at home is between .09 and 11 cents per kwh)). Their service is more or less up to speed on updates etc, though they did turn green when I asked if they've ever replaced a battery pack. I dont blame them considering how much time it takes.


Bottom line for this time in history is that if you buy one of these you will be pioneering some and if you dont like twiddling with them and the adjustments you have to make to enjoy them, then a hybrid is probably a better choice. Since Im an inveterate tinkerer this is my daily driver and experiment car. I am retired, so I have time for this.
Hi Mr Eltee. So have You taken the dealership up on the bonuses of ownership? How is their car wash? Did You happen to notice if the charger goes up to 25kw? Yes I agree this is a great choice for those fortunate enough to be retired or retiring soon!
 

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I think that if all the Bolt dealerships had a required by GM DCFC network, it would jump start an infrastructure for the Bolt. I went to our local Chevy dealership and found that they had Level 2 chargers inside of a bay were they could not be used. Its almost as if Chevy doesn't care about the EV's, contrary to their corporate direction.
 

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Hi Davioh2001,


I have used the dealer stuff. It took me two weeks to get my l2 charger in my garage after the sale, so they do have a 25kw fast dc charger there. I used it a few times to keep me going. I wash the car for free about once every other week. Very nice.



Hope that helps.


Eltee
 

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I tried it this weekend below is a cut / paste to GM; my question is has anyone gotten a FAST 25kw out of the unit? My dash clearly shows it never went beyond 21kw / "medium" even on a mostly empty battery.
." In regards of Dealership fast charging I tried the one in Amarillo Texas - AutoNation Chevrolet; the unit was stuck on medium making it go no faster than 21kw- not 25kw. It seems reasonable that GM should require dealerships make the unit accessible to public 24/7 and that the units are set to deliver current at highest power possible! The extra 4kw power means the end user can finish up charging close to an hour quicker! "
The 25 kW DCFC units installed at the dealers are likely made by Bosch, and designed to use split phase 240V. The maximum amperage that those units can supply to a vehicle is 65A. If you pulled into the dealership with a mostly empty battery in a Bolt, the pack voltage would be around 330V. 65A * 330V = 21.4 kW. As the battery gets full, pack voltage will rise of course. When the battery is half full, pack voltage is at ~355 volts. 65 * 355 = 23 kW. To get the full 25 kW into the battery pack requires that the pack voltage is at 384 volts. At that voltage point, the car has already hit several taper points in it鈥檚 programming and won鈥檛 pull more than a max of about 15 kW, regardless of the charger you plugged into.

You were getting the maximum current available from that unit. If you weren鈥檛 getting 23 kW at 50% SOC it was probably due to the car running the battery thermal management system to keep the battery sufficiently cool during charging.
 

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My dealer (Everette Chevrolet, Hickory, NC) has CCS charger available for my Bolt and it has been used by non GM cars (as per check-ins and pictures on PlugShare) as well. Understand from some discussions that unit was $7000 plus installation & some extra cable. Have been very happy with this dealership. It is true that I have not seen charge levels higher than 21kWh but my battery has never been super low when I used it. I am aware that some GM dealers in my area have only L2 chargers, primarily for Volts & Sparks but certainly usable on Bolt EV's.
 

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My dealer (Everette Chevrolet, Hickory, NC) has CCS charger available for my Bolt and it has been used by non GM cars (as per check-ins and pictures on PlugShare) as well. Understand from some discussions that unit was $7000 plus installation & some extra cable. Have been very happy with this dealership. It is true that I have not seen charge levels higher than 21 kWh but my battery has never been super low when I used it. I am aware that some GM dealers in my area have only L2 chargers, primarily for Volts & Sparks but certainly usable on Bolt EV's.
In my experience, car dealerships are typically in places with no grass, no sidewalks, no restaurants (you can't get to them if there are because...no sidewalks). You'd have to be pretty desperate to go to one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
My dealer (Everette Chevrolet, Hickory, NC) has CCS charger available for my Bolt and it has been used by non GM cars (as per check-ins and pictures on PlugShare) as well. Understand from some discussions that unit was $7000 plus installation & some extra cable. Have been very happy with this dealership. It is true that I have not seen charge levels higher than 21kWh but my battery has never been super low when I used it. I am aware that some GM dealers in my area have only L2 chargers, primarily for Volts & Sparks but certainly usable on Bolt EV's.
Since they're taking the Bosch unit and putting a Chevrolet logo on it... Very surprised GM can't get these for cheaper than $7000 that's only 30% less than the public could buy them for!
 
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