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Discussion Starter #1
Just wanted to say that the community here is stellar by comparison to other forums I am on. I have been using the forums here as a means to scoop up all the info I could and even though I am now leaning towards the 2018 LEAF (have not made a final decision), I really have to say that this forum has been amazing and I still plan on stopping in time and time again to see what is the latest and greatest in the Bolt arena.
 

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Just wanted to say that the community here is stellar by comparison to other forums I am on. I have been using the forums here as a means to scoop up all the info I could and even though I am now leaning towards the 2018 LEAF (have not made a final decision), I really have to say that this forum has been amazing and I still plan on stopping in time and time again to see what is the latest and greatest in the Bolt arena.
There are many who will see an EV as a purely commuter car for the foreseeable future. Since the Leaf meets their range requirements, costs $5K-$7K less, has almost ten years more experience, and is made by a highly reliable company (Nissan), their decision is easy. The Bolt is NOT for everyone. Good luck and safe driving.
 

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A collective thanks for the kind words and do what ya gotta do, but there's a very real worth-it difference between the Bolt and the Leaf.

jack vines
 

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I’m a big nissan fan and currently own 3 of them: Infiniti QX80, Q50S red sport, and a Murano platinum. Back late last year 2017 I seriously looked at getting an EV and was so excited about the upcoming 2018 leaf. Then came the reveal back in September and it was a bit of a let down for me mainly because of the smaller 40kwh battery and no liquid thermal management.
This is when I looked into getting a Bolt; it will be my first GM car and although I have not taken delivery of my 2018 Bolt yet. The impression I’m getting from the members in this forum seem overwhelmingly positive about the vehicle experience and ownership.
I also got to test drive a Bolt briefly here in Toronto from a non profit agency specializing in providing awareness and education to the public about green vehicles. They also sell EVSEs and that’s where I bought 2 of the ones I had installed recently.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
A collective thanks for the kind words and do what ya gotta do, but there's a very real worth-it difference between the Bolt and the Leaf.

jack vines
That's why it's been a struggle. I just wish the dealerships would play ball. I can't see the Bolt being a vehicle that is worth an additional $5k more than then Leaf over a 3 year span at this point. I still have about a week to make a decision or see if the Chevy dealerships will come down on price.
 

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That's why it's been a struggle. I just wish the dealerships would play ball. I can't see the Bolt being a vehicle that is worth an additional $5k more than then Leaf over a 3 year span at this point. I still have about a week to make a decision or see if the Chevy dealerships will come down on price.
The range and the thermal management for the battery are worth the extra 5k to me. If you live someplace where it gets cold that extra range could really come in handy.
 

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Personally, I would stay away from the 2018 Leaf. No thermal management is a big deal in EV's. Shrugging off a 5 to 7G price difference is not comparing apples to apples. Bolt has longer range AND thermal management. They are both worth the extra money. Additionally, there are deals to be had on the Bolt right now as the 2018's are coming. I just saw a well equipped $39,000 LT go out the door for $34,500 here in Texas...

So far by Bolt with 16,000 miles on it has been a dream. Not one service issue. While Nissan has been in the game longer, GM clearly has done its homework here with the battery and motor in the Bolt. To me, the LEAF and Bolt are not a comparable product. Just look at the longstanding battery issues Nissan has had in the previous Leaf model. That kind of cost cutting engineering gives the whole industry a bad reputation.

Comparing a 150 mile per charge Leaf to a 230 + Bolt....not even close.
 

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Personally, I would stay away from the 2018 Leaf. No thermal management is a big deal in EV's. Shrugging off a 5 to 7G price difference is not comparing apples to apples. Bolt has longer range AND thermal management. They are both worth the extra money. Additionally, there are deals to be had on the Bolt right now as the 2018's are coming. I just saw a well equipped $39,000 LT go out the door for $34,500 here in Texas...

So far by Bolt with 16,000 miles on it has been a dream. Not one service issue. While Nissan has been in the game longer, GM clearly has done its homework here with the battery and motor in the Bolt. To me, the LEAF and Bolt are not a comparable product. Just look at the longstanding battery issues Nissan has had in the previous Leaf model. That kind of cost cutting engineering gives the whole industry a bad reputation.

Comparing a 150 mile per charge Leaf to a 230 + Bolt....not even close.
Agreed. Forget about cold climate and what that does to range. Below freezing? Want heat? You will be lucky to get 100 miles out of that leaf....that's with a perfect battery.
 

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That's why it's been a struggle. I just wish the dealerships would play ball. I can't see the Bolt being a vehicle that is worth an additional $5k more than then Leaf over a 3 year span at this point. I still have about a week to make a decision or see if the Chevy dealerships will come down on price.
It will be a fairly long time before you see any discounting on the 2018 LEAF, so the price differential will be minimal for at least 6 mos.

Some LEAF potential advantages (what is important to individuals will vary):
  • Heat pump available (on the SV as an option, on the SL as standard equipment - not available on the S)
  • Adjustable power seats with lumbar available (SV as an option, SL standard - not available on the S)
  • Built in NAV system plus Carplay/Android Auto (SV as an option, SL standard - not available on the S)
  • Homelink available (SV as an option, SL standard - not available on the S)
  • Adaptive Cruise available (SV as an option, SL standard - not available on the S)
  • Lease better suited for those looking to use it as a means to finance a purchase (useful for those that don't qualify for the full Fed Tax Credit). $7,500 as a CCR and realistic residual. Base SV 12K miles/yr (no options or T&L - $33,375 MSRP): $3,979 down + $11,124 in monthly payments ($309/mo) = $15,103 in rent and depreciation. Residual of $10,680 (32%).
  • CHAdeMO instead of CCS
  • Softer ride
Some potential negatives (once again, will vary by individual):
  • Lack of thermal management
  • Lower range
  • Less sporty (slower and softer all around)
  • CHAdeMO vs CCS
  • Black the only interior color option
Other features on each will appeal to different folks, but these issues are what seem to be most discussed.
 

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Just today, I smoked a Mustang convertible off the line. He didn't know it was a race and assumed he would just passively (aggressively) slip in ahead of me in my lane. The moment he looked at me as he pulled past.. a look of disdain if there ever was one.. sealed his fate in my rear view mirror.

The point of this passage is to remind everyone that the Leaf is a commuter car with 147hp and 236 ftlb of torque. The Bolt is closer to the Tesla than it is to the Leaf with 200 hp and 266 ftlb of torque. My 2015 Leaf was no slouch off the line, but my Bolt handles better, and is significantly faster.

I don't disagree if you are leasing the car, but if you are buying it, that $5k is pretty insignificant when you consider that the Bolt has 30% more range. I don't often need that range, but it is really nice to have it.

Once you make the decision to buy an EV, it is a win for everyone that you do. Once you get your car, wanna race?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Just today, I smoked a Mustang convertible off the line. He didn't know it was a race and assumed he would just passively (aggressively) slip in ahead of me in my lane. The moment he looked at me as he pulled past.. a look of disdain if there ever was one.. sealed his fate in my rear view mirror.

The point of this passage is to remind everyone that the Leaf is a commuter car with 147hp and 236 ftlb of torque. The Bolt is closer to the Tesla than it is to the Leaf with 200 hp and 266 ftlb of torque. My 2015 Leaf was no slouch off the line, but my Bolt handles better, and is significantly faster.

I don't disagree if you are leasing the car, but if you are buying it, that $5k is pretty insignificant when you consider that the Bolt has 30% more range. I don't often need that range, but it is really nice to have it.

Once you make the decision to buy an EV, it is a win for everyone that you do. Once you get your car, wanna race?
If I were purchasing then yes, the Bolt is the vehicle that would be sitting in my garage right now. Especially if the charging network were better. Like I said, I haven't made my decision yet...although I am leaning towards the Leaf.


One of the nice things is the No charge to Charge promo they have going on...2 years of charging at level 3 chargers for 30 min at a time for free...have one 6 min from the house. Lease costs are substantially cheaper or the Leaf. Insurance is actually lower than the Bolt by a bit. My overall daily commute is only 70 miles at most during the week... give or take 40 miles or less on the weekends.


The Bolt is definitely much more fun to drive, but the seats are a concern for me commuting 30 min each way from home to work and back. I actually think the Bolt is hands down a better vehicle overall. No knock about the vehicle...it's the dealerships that I am having an issue with. If people don't think Customer Service isn't important...then there is a problem.


Plus...when it comes to fast...my Slingshot is by far the most exciting vehicle I have ever owned. 305 HP at the wheels on 1800 lbs of weight is a no joke power to weight ratio. I don't lose many races light to light. lol. So the whole "fun factor" isn't high on the list. I am looking at essentially something maintenance free, gas free, that will be my foot in to the EV world with out breaking the bank.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
And just as I was giving up on the Bolt...the dealership contacted me saying they are ready to deal on a black LT with the comfort and convenience and driver confidence package. Have I mentioned how much I dislike dealerships?
 

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I don't disagree if you are leasing the car, but if you are buying it, that $5k is pretty insignificant when you consider that the Bolt has 30% more range. I don't often need that range, but it is really nice to have it.
I don't need it often either, but I love having it. It means I can drive around the city all day long in the middle of winter with the heater on full blast and never worry about running out of charge.

The problem with having a smaller battery is that extreme conditions like that eat into your range to the point where you start having range anxiety or, even worse, actually having to recharge to complete your errands.

Not so with the Bolt - you get into it in the morning with a full charge and you drive it all day without regard to the conditions. I love it!
 

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And just as I was giving up on the Bolt...the dealership contacted me saying they are ready to deal on a black LT with the comfort and convenience and driver confidence package. Have I mentioned how much I dislike dealerships?

Ok so the story is on going. They want to wheel and deal on the car. Tried calling 2 times last night, sent a text, and sent an email...no response...
 

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Ok so the story is on going. They want to wheel and deal on the car. Tried calling 2 times last night, sent a text, and sent an email...no response...
Are you a costco member? Why not go through a car buying service? Takes all the haggle out. For my bolt I just looked on cars.com and saw a good price, drove down to VA, and made the purchase.
 

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Are you a costco member? Why not go through a car buying service? Takes all the haggle out. For my bolt I just looked on cars.com and saw a good price, drove down to VA, and made the purchase.
I know that Costco does car sales...but not sure if they deal with leases.
 

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I know that Costco does car sales...but not sure if they deal with leases.
They have a pre-negotiated set price. Doesn't matter if you pay cash, finance or lease.

Sometimes you can do better on your own, sometimes the Costco price is better (and you sometimes get a Costco cash card).
 

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The point of this passage is to remind everyone that the Leaf is a commuter car with 147hp and 236 ftlb of torque. The Bolt is closer to the Tesla than it is to the Leaf with 200 hp and 266 ftlb of torque.
This is a nit-pick for the purpose of education, not criticism. A foot pound is a unit of work. A pound foot is a unit of torque. The Bolt has 266 pound feet of torque.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Whelp...after a terrible shopping experience trying to buy/lease a Bolt, I have gone with a 2018 LEAF. The Pro-Pilot was a big selling point, the nicer seats helped too. Ultimately after talking to 4 dealerships in 3 weeks, they proved to me that they were not interested in making a customer happy. There were some bait and switch tactics, some outright lies, and some "miscommunication" that could not be overcome. I still plan on checking the forum frequently because this community is one of the best online communities I have seen in a long time.


Thanks everyone for the information, fun, and help.
 
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