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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My electricity cost is almost double what the national average. I live in Massachusetts and the electricity rate is 22.8 cents per kWh. If you do comparison to $2.50/gallon, electricity comes out about the same price as gasoline and maybe sometimes electricity is more expensive. As of now I’m not seeing any savings because I’m using electricity rather than gasoline for my 2017 Chevy Bolt and I’m very disappointed in that because that’s the reason I bought this car, was to save me money. Hopefully I’ll save money on maintenance, only time will tell.
 

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Have you asked your utility/ Electric company if they have EV rates? Here in Arizona, the SRP EV rate plan is only .06/kWh between the hours of 11 PM and 5 AM. In the Spring and Summer the rates are still only around seven or eight cents per kWh.
 

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Massachusetts has time-of-use rates but only for residential customers that use 2500kwh or more per month, about double my usage. This must change! This applies only to National Grid.
Same thing here in NY. National Grid needs to get with the program. They do however subsidize commercial charging stations that open to the public.
 

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It's my opinion as EV adoption increases so will the cost of electricity. Why? Simple supply and demand. Today there are low numbers of EV's out in the market thus the addition demand for electricity isn't even a rounding error. If EV adoption were to match that of ICE vehicles the would put significantly more demand on the electrical infrastructure thus leading to more investment and therefore driving up cost.
 

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I assign to my Bolt the incremental or marginal cost of hydro* as measured at the Bolt’s battery. I feel better doing it that way.:eek: As I’m not a business my method doesn’t affect my income taxes. And I don’t worry about energy loss from the electrical meter to EVSE plug to Bolt.
(* - I don’t have any facility for make-your-own electricity, I buy 100% from the grid).

For example on the last bill my overall average cost per kWh was 18.0¢ ($CAD). Within that rate the average cost for “off peak”, the nite time rate when the Bolt is charged, was 15.5¢ per kWh. But the “variable”, incremental or marginal cost associated with Bolt (treated as add on to the household) excluding fixed cost levies inside the bill, was just 9.4¢ per kWh. That 9.4¢ per kWh is what I use to calculate Bolt energy operating cost.

Even with the Bolt’s worst consumption this winter around 23 kWh/ 100 km (2.6 mi / kWh). Because gasoline is so expensive here ($4.73 CAD per USgallon). And hydro is relatively “cheap”. Bolt’s energy operating cost in my view is way below the other ICE** vehicle of about the same interior size. At worst in winter, my Bolt’s operating cost is just 19% of my ICE’s.
**the ICE vehicle averages 9.2 L/100km (25.5 mi/USgallon) in the same winter driving
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I guess it all depends on where you live. Some places gas is more expensive and some places electricity is more expensive. I have EverSource for my electric company here in Massachusetts and they don’t have a special rate for EV vechiles yet. Charging during off peak hours might be cheaper per KWh but they over charge you in other places to make up for it.
 

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Also, check to see if there are any free charging stations you can use. There aren’t very many here on LI, but a few shopping centers have them.

It’s not practical to park all day at an L2 charger, but an hour’s charge here and there can add up.

I do a lot of cycling with remote starts, and I park in a shopping center with free L2 charging. When I get back three or four hours later my Bolt has an added 100+ miles of range.
 

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Let's see:
- $.22/kWH @ 4miles/kWH= $.055/mile
- $2.50 @ 45mpg = $.055/mile

Does you car get 45mpg? Otherwise, your arithmetic leaks, and you haven't even counted the cost of oil changes and other required (and unscheduled) ICE maintenance.
BTW, you are a very fortunate person to get $2.50 gas - out west it's $3.43 for regular.
 

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Let's see:
- $.22/kWH @ 4miles/kWH= $.055/mile
- $2.50 @ 45mpg = $.055/mile

Does you car get 45mpg? Otherwise, your arithmetic leaks, and you haven't even counted the cost of oil changes and other required (and unscheduled) ICE maintenance.
BTW, you are a very fortunate person to get $2.50 gas - out west it's $3.43 for regular.
He said $0.228 and that is really $0.25 per kWh to charge. You have to assume a 10% loss when charging your battery. Getting 4 miles/kWh average in a cold climate like Massachusetts is very difficult. He will be luck to average 3.5 miles/kWh for the year.

- $0.25/kWH @ 3.5 miles/kWH= $.071/mile
- $2.50 @ 35mpg = $.071/mile

Without special electric rates having an EV is not a money saver. Here in California I have a lot more options to save money with crazy gas prices, special EV charging rates, Net Metering with Solar, etc... That is why I hate the MPGe rating on EV vehicles. People see 120 MPGe and in their mind it will cost about 1/3 of a Prius in fuel. The MPGe needs to disappear because the general public has no idea what the calculation means. I guarantee there are EV salespeople out there telling that it is directly equivalent to 120 MPG and it will cost 1/3 the price in fuel compared to an ICE 40 MPG vehicle.
 

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He said $0.228 and that is really $0.25 per kWh to charge. You have to assume a 10% loss when charging your battery. Getting 4 miles/kWh average in a cold climate like Massachusetts is very difficult. He will be luck to average 3.5 miles/kWh for the year.

- $0.25/kWH @ 3.5 miles/kWH= $.071/mile
- $2.50 @ 35mpg = $.071/mile

Without special electric rates having an EV is not a money saver. Here in California I have a lot more options to save money with crazy gas prices, special EV charging rates, Net Metering with Solar, etc... That is why I hate the MPGe rating on EV vehicles. People see 120 MPGe and in their mind it will cost about 1/3 of a Prius in fuel. The MPGe needs to disappear because the general public has no idea what the calculation means. I guarantee there are EV salespeople out there telling that it is directly equivalent to 120 MPG and it will cost 1/3 the price in fuel compared to an ICE 40 MPG vehicle.
I would factor in the greatly reduced cost of maintenance, and also, for many, the ability to use free L2 chargers either at work or at local businesses.

I think MPGe is useful in comparing efficiency, which is what it was designed for. As for the public not understanding MPGe, we can add that to the long list of things people don’t understand. I agree that car dealers may not be truthful about this, but I would be more surprised if they were either truthful or informed about anything car related.

It’s up to a potential owner to research a product before buying. I’ve read many EV articles that point out the wide variation in electricity cost and how that affects EV savings versus ICE vehicles. The EPA site fueleconomy.gov has a calculator that lets you plug-in actual local costs for different fuels, including electricity. Those costs are then factored into the fuel cost savings for each car researched on the site. It’s not perfect, but it gets closer to real-world savings numbers.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree with TimBolt calculations. My cost is very much similar to what he stated. The price is about the same for gas vs electricity here in Massachusetts unless you do something extra like find free public chargers, get solar panels or something else. I hope to save on maintenance but the big issue with electric cars are it’s battery. Once it dies, the car is basically not worth anything!
 

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Once it dies, the car is basically not worth anything!
there is no evidence the LiON batteries "just die" - they lose capacity, but even 10 year Tesla Roadsters are driving around with 80-85% of their original capacity, battery replacement while expensive is in line with any major ICE replacement (engine/tranmssion) for a similar age/miles.

there is simply no evidence that batteries are going to be useless after 10 years - even leaf batteries which are the poster child for improper LiON management never really got below 60% of their original range, and that is only in hot climates - I think the worth of a Bolt that is 10-15 years old will easy match/surpass the worth of any other similar car of similar age/milage.
 

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Let's see:
- $.22/kWH @ 4miles/kWH= $.055/mile
- $2.50 @ 45mpg = $.055/mile

Does you car get 45mpg? Otherwise, your arithmetic leaks, and you haven't even counted the cost of oil changes and other required (and unscheduled) ICE maintenance.
BTW, you are a very fortunate person to get $2.50 gas - out west it's $3.43 for regular.
You have to consider that you're paying ~$35K (~$28K with the tax credit) for a ~$20K car. Meaning, if you removed the battery/electric motor and put in a gas engine, the Bolt is probably a $20K car.

The extra money being spent on the price of the car will most likely never overcome the cost of oil changes and other ICE maintenance if the cost of electricity is the same or more as gas when looking at the cost per mile. That being said, most people won't buy a Tesla to save money on gas and the Bolt can be similar in some states.
 

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Consider solar panels. There should be a plan for you to sell the energy to your utility during the day and buy it back at night, which is the best time to charge. Not all utilities (or even entire staes) offer this plan, which benefits everyone. Nevada killed solar by passing legislation that excuses their utilities from these time-of-use plans.
 
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Find Free Level 2 Chargers To Defray High Electric Bills

I'm gettin' the shaft at $ .12 per KwH from those criminal defendants known as PG&E out here in Unmentionable-fornia. There is a secure level 2 charger several miles away. No bad guys dare go there (lots of cops) so you can leave your car there . If you have 2 electrics its really cool to swap 'em out after the 3rd commute fully charged with free wackyfornia goobermint free juice. You should figure out where the free juice is at.
 

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Let's see:
- $.22/kWH @ 4miles/kWH= $.055/mile
- $2.50 @ 45mpg = $.055/mile

Does you car get 45mpg?
I am continually shocked at the vehicles that Bolt owners were driving before their Bolt. I just assumed that they would have been driving a Honda Fit at least, and most would have been Prius owners. I thought comparing Bolt costs to the 24+ mpg fleet average was deceptive advertising. But it turns out I don't understand people at all. My Prius owning friends, rightly, see little environmental benefit for the depreciation costs of buying a new car, while SUV and muscle car owners are buying them for the technology, and fuel savings. :)
 
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