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That was not hard to see nor predict. The average transaction price of the Model S is about $100,000. Henry Ford was able to cut the price of the Model T by 65% but it took a decade of development in mass production methodology and a 100-fold increase in production to do so.

If what Elon Musk has pulled was done by any other Auto manufacturer CEO he'd be laughed off of Wall Street.
 

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Why should we, the Bolt people, care?
Agreed. Mass EV adoption will not be dependent on the success of Tesla and model 3 launch/delivery. It's dependent on the. Major auto manufacturers need to decide they are all they are all in which means building/ leading the way to build a comprehensive charging network nationwide that encompasss technology that allows one to charge their vehicle as quickly and as easily as an ICE vehicle. The success of the model 3 launch may help put pressure for this to happen more quickly and drive a response by other manufacturers like GM to decide they are all in.
 

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Battery capacity is not like gas tank capacity.

These guys got 75 kWh out of a LR Tesla.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-real-world-battery-range-test/

These guys got 66 kWh out of theirs.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-sets-new-range-record-at-606-2-miles/

Bjorn Nyland got 57.3 kWh out of a Bolt. Green Car Reports got 58.7 kWh out. VOX Auto Mobil got 58.9 out of an Ampera E.

I got 56 kWh. Some on here have gotten over 60 kWh.

I see this as one of the big impediments to mainstream acceptance of EVs.
 

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Agreed. Mass EV adoption will not be dependent on the success of Tesla and model 3 launch/delivery.
The true driver of the EV revolution is the fundamental and applied science that goes into developing the electrochemical power generation and storage technology, such as batteries and fuel cells, to make them cheaper, smaller/lighter and more resilient.
 

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So Elon's latest delay on the Tesla Model 3 Standard looks like six months or even more: he is suggesting none will be built until December at the earliest. By January 1, 2019, the $7500 federal income tax credit will start phasing out for Tesla (and GM): it's cut in half for the first two quarters of 2019 ($3,750), then half again in for the last two quarters of 2019 ($1,875), then it's gone entirely on January 1, 2020. So those who wish (hope) to buy a Model 3 Standard are once again being hung out to dry by Elon Musk. Delivery is delayed again, and they will lose some (or all) of the tax credit. It's likely the latest delay is just another page in Elon's nefarious plan: leave Model 3 buyers with little choice in 2018 other than to buy a premium model, where he can reap much larger profits.

I think I smell a class action lawsuit on the horizon.
 

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So Elon's latest delay on the Tesla Model 3 Standard looks like six months or even more: he is suggesting none will be built until December at the earliest. By January 1, 2019, the $7500 federal income tax credit will start phasing out for Tesla (and GM): it's cut in half for the first two quarters of 2019 ($3,750), then half again in for the last two quarters of 2019 ($1,875), then it's gone entirely on January 1, 2020. So those who wish (hope) to buy a Model 3 Standard are once again being hung out to dry by Elon Musk. Delivery is delayed again, and they will lose some (or all) of the tax credit. It's likely the latest delay is just another page in Elon's nefarious plan: leave Model 3 buyers with little choice in 2018 other than to buy a premium model, where he can reap much larger profits.

I think I smell a class action lawsuit on the horizon.
What exactly would the basis of the suit? Any of the 400,000+ production-slot orderors have a choice to buy a $50,000 Model 3 or get a refund; they were not harmed by Tesla in any way.
 

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GM now more than ever needs to quickly produce a 4-door sedan with a 275-mile range for $38,000. Oh, and make it with a real dashboard and instrument cluster. Crazy idea that'd be.
 

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Battery capacity is not like gas tank capacity.

I got 56 kWh. Some on here have gotten over 60 kWh.

I see this as one of the big impediments to mainstream acceptance of EVs.
The average consumer isn't aware of differences in measured kWh, let alone what a kWh is. How would differences in measured energy be holding back mainstream acceptance of EVs? People just want to know the range, and how long it takes to charge. The technical details make their eyes glass over.
 

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Battery capacity is not like gas tank capacity.

These guys got 75 kWh out of a LR Tesla.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-real-world-battery-range-test/

These guys got 66 kWh out of theirs.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-sets-new-range-record-at-606-2-miles/

Bjorn Nyland got 57.3 kWh out of a Bolt. Green Car Reports got 58.7 kWh out. VOX Auto Mobil got 58.9 out of an Ampera E.

I got 56 kWh. Some on here have gotten over 60 kWh.

I see this as one of the big impediments to mainstream acceptance of EVs.
The Bolt battery is built to one specification. What someone “got” from the battery is more a function of the environmental conditions and testing methods being used than the actual capacity of the battery.

It’s not a concern for most Bolt owners, and isn’t even on the radar of the average person considering an EV.
 

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The Bolt battery is built to one specification. What someone “got” from the battery is more a function of the environmental conditions and testing methods being used than the actual capacity of the battery.

It’s not a concern for most Bolt owners, and isn’t even on the radar of the average person considering an EV.
So when you look at the number on the center screen, telling you how many kWh you used from full to empty, that is not the actual usable capacity of the battery?

Battery life is on the radar of the average person. The people I talk to want to know about battery degradation. In fact, it is their number one concern. After I spend an hour showing them the car, and answering all their questions, they say, "OK. I could get by with the Bolt today, but how long until I will need to replace the battery?"
 

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My buddy in New York state is on his seventh year in his Leaf. It still gets them into town, but the utility has clearly been reduced every single year. He is frustrated by the ever decreasing range, but he can't justify dumping a perfectly fine car when he doesn't NEED to go further than town. Try explaining that to the average person, and see how many buy an EV.
 

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So when you look at the number on the center screen, telling you how many kWh you used from full to empty, that is not the actual usable capacity of the battery?

Battery life is on the radar of the average person. The people I talk to want to know about battery degradation. In fact, it is their number one concern. After I spend an hour showing them the car, and answering all their questions, they say, "OK. I could get by with the Bolt today, but how long until I will need to replace the battery?"
Are those one-off tests actually measuring battery degradation? I doubt it. Also, the number on the center screen showing kWh usage is from fully charged to whenever you charge again, as “empty” is a meaningless term when referring to the Bolt’s battery, which is never empty.

There are just too many variables to conclude that the number shown at whatever you consider to be “empty” is the actual capacity of the battery, or that this number indicates battery degradation.

It’s natural for anyone considering an EV to be concerned over battery life, but I really doubt they’ll be asking about what the dashboard reads as the EV coasts to a stop after reaching the minimum design capacity. I also doubt that most Bolt owners will ever drive their Bolts to the point where that number is displayed. I never intentionally drove an ICE car until it was empty, why would I do that with my Bolt?
 

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What exactly would the basis of the suit? Any of the 400,000+ production-slot orderors have a choice to buy a $50,000 Model 3 or get a refund; they were not harmed by Tesla in any way.
Gee, I can put down a $1k deposit and join a class action suit!

Sweet!

Anyone who seriously thought that they’d be getting the unicorn base $35k Model 3 simply hasn’t been paying attention.

Many auto manufacturers have featured base models at great prices, but that were never on dealer lots and couldn’t be ordered. Sound familiar?

Years ago a local Infiniti dealer advertised a G20 sedan at a great price of $17k, when the MSRP was over $25k.

I went down to the dealer to check it out, and that price was for a base model with a stick, truly a rare car. Infiniti’s inventory system didn’t have a single example in any color anywhere in North America.

After stating that they simply couldn’t get the car, I finally convinced the dealership to order one from Japan, which took about three months.

Nothing new about manufacturers advertising cars they really don’t want to sell, in the hope that they’ll upsell the buyer with a more expensive model. I seriously doubt I would have been able to buy a base G20 if Infiniti had 400,000 deposits down, or 40,000, or 4,000.
 

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There are just too many variables to conclude that the number shown at whatever you consider to be “empty” is the actual capacity of the battery, or that this number indicates battery degradation.
I don't know if they show degradation, but they show a lot of variability in the capacity of relatively new cars. I ran out 54.5 kWh to one flashing bar with 5 miles of GOM range remaining at 4.4 mi/kWh average, or 56 kWh total usable range. I don't know how far down the other folks ran theirs for 60 kWh, but Bjorn Nyland was at 2 bars and 19 miles remaining at 5.1 mi/kWh when he hit 57 kWh, or 60.7 kWh total usable range.
 

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I don't know if they show degradation, but they show a lot of variability in the capacity of relatively new cars. I ran out 54.5 kWh to one flashing bar with 5 miles of GOM range remaining at 4.4 mi/kWh average, or 56 kWh total usable range. I don't know how far down the other folks ran theirs for 60 kWh, but Bjorn Nyland was at 2 bars and 19 miles remaining at 5.1 mi/kWh when he hit 57 kWh, or 60.7 kWh total usable range.
Battery capacity is affected by many variables. If you tested battery capacity to where the Bolt shut down ten times you’d probably come up with ten different values. Temperature is a huge variable. Also, getting to “full” in a Bolt is determined by onboard software which may have some variability, and that same software determines when the battery is “empty”.

I never run my Bolt down to empty or near empty, but I wouldn’t be concerned if someone else ran their battery down to empty and their result was a couple of kilowatts more or less than mine.
 
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